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ynotagain

How to fix this lack of offense ?

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I think it's time to shake things up .... this team has NO positive offensive strategy, and shows NO passion to score.   From my seat behind the south goal, it appears that when they have a chance to take it to the net, they instead pass it to the side, and then lose it to the defense.  Why ?   Why not take it to the net and TRY to score.  Nope, they have no positive proactive offensive plan.  

Something has to be changed quick.  And while I think this is a coaching system problem, I doubt JR wants to go there (yet).  So there's only one path .... you've got several 6 and 7 million dollar forward stars who right now (and again for another season) are not performing.  Its time to shock the system, shake things up and trade out a 6-7 million man for a few folks who are willing to shoot the puck into the net. 

I'd put #12 on the top of the potential trade list, for starters.

 

If you don't like that plan, how would you fix this no offense team ?

 

 

 

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I don't think JR has to take that drastic of a measure to shake up the team.

 

I think Eric either needs to be scratched, or needs to have his captaincy revoked. He is NOT leading this team. Eric Staal did not show up until 5:30 remaining in the 3rd period. Prior to that, the only thing he did was coast around the ice, turn the puck over 4 times in one shift, and rack up 4 PIM. He has been lazy, unmotivated, and uninspiring, all qualities of one of thirty NHL captains? I think not. We see this from Eric year in and year out and he has had more than long enough to stop pouting with his play. The Canes pay this guy several millions to LEAD this team and he is NOT doing his job. I don't care about his numbers, I care about his work ethic and leadership more and there has been very little of either.

 

Scratch him for a game. If he comes back and remembers how to lead, and plays with some intensity, great. If he throws a hissy fit when he returns, strip him of the C. He is the leader of this team. He needs to be held accountable. How the heck should we know if it's a systems or coaching problem if your captain isn't even showing up? I've had it with this kid. It's time for him to be a MAN.

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This team and the last 5 that have not made the playoffs were put together by the GM. I think it is time to shake it up and let JR go. And do not promote Ronnie. Bring in someone who is from outside of the organization and start all over.

 

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Well I would call up some AHL players, Sit some hi value players.  I for one would like to see Victor Rask and / or Tolchinsky.   Shuffle some lines. Move out JR before he rehires Maurice and brings back corvo/kaberle.  Would bench both staals. 

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the entire offense needs a major shake-up even if is just for one game,  Bench **both** of the Staal brothers.  Bring a couple of Checkers in their places.  Give major ice time to the players who bust their butts on every shift.  This "I thought we played a pretty good game" stuff gets old fast.

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Okay, you scratch EStaal and put who in his spot?

IMO it doesn't matter. Put Lindholm there. The point isn't to win a game or two without him, the point is to hold Eric accountable. Like I said, if he responds (like I would expect), then great. If not, then trading him isn't off the table. At least then Eric isn't "hands off" and is free to continue coasting around racking up penalties. Semin and several of the young guys have been showing more leadership than the captain has.

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When Maurice was let go, a proven coach should have been hired. Big mistake. I think Eric at times is a great player, but never at times a leader. So he goes to the 3rd line. Jordan to the 4th line. Ruutu/Gleason traded for someone who can skate with the puck. Skinner/Sutter/Gerbe 1st line...  2nd line ..Some combination of Semin/Tlusty/Lindholm or Dywer..... Time to totaly restructure this team and put someone behind the bench that isnt afraid to p----s off a Staal

Edited by PamlicoPuck

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I'm not defending EStaal's play this year, but if you are saying "sit him", then you think there are 12 forwards in the organization that are better than him. I keep saying that this isn't as simple as blaming one player. Ward is hurt, so someone else becomes the whipping boy.

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I'll never get over the fantasy hockey mentality around here at times.

 

Things are bad, but you can't trade the whole team or sit everybody.  This team just doesn't seem to have any fire.  JR said in the offseason that the "room was too quiet".  I don't think that was addressed, and we are seeing the results on the ice.

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Like you guys, I don't have the answer. I know one thing, we have only scored 4 goals in the last 4 games (all losses of course). In the previous 4 games, we played some decent teams, went 2 for 2 and scored 12 goals total.

 

Hmmm...this scoring shortage all began around the same time Skinner and Dvorak went out. Interesting. I doubt that Skinner and Dvorak were our "offense in total" but I do believe in stats. I'm for accountability as well, but anyone that's coached knows sometimes sitting someone (especially a high end player) makes it worse. It depends on the personality. I see Eric as the type that won't take the right message from being scratched or losing his "C". I don't have the answer but I think if you do that you send the team into a spiral...  you know, worse than the one we're in right now.. :) 



I'll never get over the fantasy hockey mentality around here at times.

 

Things are bad, but you can't trade the whole team or sit everybody.  

Hey, I did that once in fantasy hockey and won the league! Haha! :) 

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Can someone help me out with a couple of examples where drastic in-season shakeups like stripping captaincies or trading franchise players has actually worked out for a team in the long run?

Reason I'm asking is because it sure back fired on the Whalers back in the day when Rick Ley stripped Ron Francis of the "C". It turned out to be totally counter-productive and simple minded because the core problem remained and it sure didn't mysteriously add to the offensive prowess of the rest of the team. In hindsight, the only thing Ley accomplished by stripping Ron of the captaincy was creating a bunch of confusion and cliques in the locker room that eventually cost him his job.

And as far as going on a mere hunch that trading a franchise player should be a good thing to improve the team? Francis and Samuelsson were traded to Pittsburgh for the sake of a shakeup too and it did nothing for the team in the long run either. It was little more than a crap-shoot with a lot of wishful thinking that totally ignored cause and effect. Just like Baldwin couldn't get equal or better talent in return, I highly doubt JR would be able to either.

IMO, I saw some positive changes last night against Tampa that I liked and think Kirk is addressing the right issues and is tweaking his system. I'm willing to wait and see how the team continues to respond.

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Can someone help me out with a couple of examples where drastic in-season shakeups like stripping captaincies or trading franchise players has actually worked out for a team in the long run?

 

One answer to both questions would be Eric Lindros.  Trading him won a Stanley Cup for Quebec/Colorado, and stripping him of the C got the Flyers to the ECF.

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In season blockbuster trades don't happen often and usually don't work. Tearing the letters off our leaders sweaters won't work either unless your convinced that is the biggest problem.  Even then you would need to find a trade because the locker room would be divided. I'm not as confident as some that we can weather the storm and when the injured return all will be well. But I'm willing to watch for awhile longer.

 

Injuries are our biggest problem but a team needs to find a way to fight through that.

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Like you guys, I don't have the answer. I know one thing, we have only scored 4 goals in the last 4 games (all losses of course). In the previous 4 games, we played some decent teams, went 2 for 2 (actually 2-1-1) and scored 12 goals total.

 

Hmmm...this scoring shortage all began around the same time Skinner and Dvorak went out. Interesting. I doubt that Skinner and Dvorak were our "offense in total" but I do believe in stats. I'm for accountability as well, but anyone that's coached knows sometimes sitting someone (especially a high end player) makes it worse. It depends on the personality. I see Eric as the type that won't take the right message from being scratched or losing his "C". I don't have the answer but I think if you do that you send the team into a spiral...  you know, worse than the one we're in right now.. :)

So what changed?  The most obvious (although by no means definitive) answer is Skinner, Dvorak, and Ward all going down to injury.   While it's hard to specify how any of those would individually cause such a dramatic turnaround, a team is like a knit sweater; if you pull one string it can effect a much greater area than that particular string. 

 

Having said that, even if the injuries are most of the cause of the turnaround, they do seem to have exposed some areas we need to work on.  Let's see what happens.    

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I lot of things I see here are understandably out of frustration, but not really practical in the nhl. Striping Staal of the C does nothing for the team's confidence nor motivate Staal. I can't think of a single example of where doing that has worked for another team. I think moving him in the lineup might work though. Trading him? If he is such a lazy bum who the hell do you think is going to give up our new messiah for a lazy bum? If you go down that road your going to have to clean house from top to bottom, management, players, trainers, everything, and I don't think this market has the stomach for that. 

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If you go down that road your going to have to clean house from top to bottom, management, players, trainers, everything, and I don't think this market has the stomach for that. 

 

Look at where Buffalo is right now, and you see where this team would be if they decided to blow it up.

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    Well I see the problem in a different place, most of you think its a player or management.  Its really all of the above.  The problem is right there in front of you and no one can see it. Its like playing pool everyone thinks the name of the game is to get the ball in the pocket.  Thats only about 20% of the game the other 80% is control of the clue ball.  If you can't control the clue ball then you will only be an aveage player. The teams problem is they can not control the puck.  In any game its all about control, I dont care if its Chess, Checkers, Football, Basketball or any sport or game "Its all about control".  The best play on the board is no good if you are unable to control the puck and execute the play.  I'm like a lot of you, right now I'm disappointed in the teams performance but I'm not going to give up on them. All the negative post on here isn't helpling the matter.  Its not just us who read it, its also the players.  When they read them it doesnt help with their playing.  These negative post are in the back of their mind.  And it doesn't help one bit.  A little more support would go a very long way.

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Look at where Buffalo is right now, and you see where this team would be if they decided to blow it up.

I agree and what is their one constant. GM. Their GM needs to go also. Love JR as a man and a person but we need some new thought processes. Worked recently with Montreal, Toronto, Colorado, etc. I know it does not always work but man we need to try something.

 

We also need to look at our scouts as when was the last person drafted later than the 2nd  round do anything for us? I believe the last one was Erik Cole and how long ago was that?

JUST really frustrated with all this right now. Makes me not even want to go to games and I am a season ticket holder since 2002.

 

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    Well I see the problem in a different place, most of you think its a player or management.  Its really all of the above.  The problem is right there in front of you and no one can see it. Its like playing pool everyone thinks the name of the game is to get the ball in the pocket.  Thats only about 20% of the game the other 80% is control of the clue ball.  If you can't control the clue ball then you will only be an aveage player. The teams problem is they can not control the puck.  In any game its all about control, I dont care if its Chess, Checkers, Football, Basketball or any sport or game "Its all about control".  The best play on the board is no good if you are unable to control the puck and execute the play.  I'm like a lot of you, right now I'm disappointed in the teams performance but I'm not going to give up on them. All the negative post on here isn't helpling the matter.  Its not just us who read it, its also the players.  When they read them it doesnt help with their playing.  These negative post are in the back of their mind.  And it doesn't help one bit.  A little more support would go a very long way.

Not if they're smart :grin: .  Hopefully they realize that we operate on very limited information and a lot of speculation and therefore avoid giving heed to our opinions.  

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The 4 game skid causes fans to think "been here done this" because of the past few seasons I think we automatically think..."here we go again" we've been condition- not our fault- throw in the same old "we played a hard game-didn't get the bounces-I thought we looked good" comments and frustration starts to build for the fans.

In the end it won't matter what the reason is if they don't find a way to start scoring! Maybe everyone at practice including forwards/defense/ heck throw in the backup to the backup backup goalies and the coaches and for the entire practice everyone shoots pucks at the net...skate north shoot-skate south shoot...call them bag skates with a shot :) These men are professional athletes/hockey players not little league 12 year olds learning the game- if they need a confidence booster they need SCORE and win- anyone hear think management/coaching is attempting to pound square pegs into round holes? And perhaps that's the issue? I remember a time when the scoreboard didn't matter/confidence never came up we never heard how good the other team was... The boys just came out did their job played the "game" and won! Some nights they just willed it to happen...where did those Canes go?

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I'm not defending EStaal's play this year, but if you are saying "sit him", then you think there are 12 forwards in the organization that are better than him. I keep saying that this isn't as simple as blaming one player. Ward is hurt, so someone else becomes the whipping boy.

Wrong - I'm saying there are 12 forwards in the organization who are not the Captain of this team. Of course he doesn't get all of the blame for this team's problems, but how can you blame the other 12 forwards without first blaming the supposed Captain and leader? When you make a screwup at work, does your boss's boss's boss come yell at you first?

 

I'll concede taking the C away is probably counter-productive, but Eric is not as untouchable as he might think and I'm surprised how many here apparently think he is even if they won't say it. He needs to act like a leader instead of needing one to lead him all the time. He's a grown man making several million dollars a year and he's capable of leading this team. He did a fine job all of last year including when we sucked. All I'm suggesting is we hold him accountable.

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