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Greg-N-Ral

Mark Howe as Canes GM

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A measurable number of NHL teams already have a GM with a proven winning record or that come from a winning culture. Further, these elite jobs don’t come open every day.

If you have specific reasons to think Mark Howe does not have the knowledge and know how to be a solid NHL GM please do advise and lets discuss them.

 

So General Manager positions don't come open everyday huh?

 

In the last 5 years alone 15 teams have replaced their GM.

 

I have nothing against Mark Howe, but if he is "the man" then how come one of these 15 teams did not snatch him up?

 

Likely because 1) he's better suited to be a pro scout, and 2) no other team sees him as GM material.

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So General Manager positions don't come open everyday huh?

 

In the last 5 years alone 15 teams have replaced their GM.

 

I have nothing against Mark Howe, but if he is "the man" then how come one of these 15 teams did not snatch him up?

 

Likely because 1) he's better suited to be a pro scout, and 2) no other team sees him as GM material.

Report out the 15 and we'll dig in.

 

But in any case, if your logic is basically, "He's not a current GM, so he's not GM material"  

then that's clearly a weak narrow argument.

Again lay out your  reported 15 "new" GMs and we'll analyze it.

 

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Report out the 15 and we'll dig in.

 

But in any case, if your logic is basically, "He's not a current GM, so he's not GM material"  

then that's clearly a weak narrow argument.

Again lay out your  reported 15 "new" GMs and we'll analyze it.

 

 

No Greg, that's not how it works. 

 

It's your thread, your choice for GM, and my question.  Which you seem to want to avoid answering.

 

I am asking you AGAIN if Mark Howe would make such a great general manager in Carolina, why hasn't he 1) either pursued one of the many openings around the league in the last 5 years, or 2)  been pursued by other teams with GM openings in the last 5 years?  Assuming as you point, that he's the man for the job.

 

Simple question.

 

Oh, and here's a link to NHL GM's.  I'm surprised you aren't familiar with the list given you proclaim to know so much about what it takes to be one. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NHL_general_managers

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Perhaps Howe never found the right situation he wanted.

Perhaps Howe was (is being) pursued by other NHL teams.  You seem convinced it never happened. In the future, Philly could be likely. But if you need definitive answers, you’ll need to talk with Mark and the other teams.

The relevant point is: Would Mark Howe be a good pick for the Canes GM right here, right now?

I say Yes!

And I have listed some of the reasons in this thread.

Now, if you have specific reasons to think Mark Howe does not have the knowledge and know how to be a solid NHL GM please do advise as to why.

And again, if your point is simply "He's not a current GM, so he's not GM material" that's clearly weak logic! 

BTW, calling Howe "a scout" is like calling the SuperBowl "just another football game." 

Read up on Howe and you might actually learn a thing or two about the man, his character and his deep deep love and understanding of hockey!

And by the way, did I mention he's worked very closely with Ken Holland and Mike Babcock (Red Wings 22-years in a row making playoffs),  and oh yes, he learned hockey from his dad, a fellow named Gordie Howe and yes, he did win an Olympic medal in hockey for team USA when he was 16-years old and yes its true he's highly trusted by Steve Yzerman, etc etc etc. and with some research, you'll see his character is reported to be above reproach. Total class!!

This is the kind of guy we need around here... a person that comes from a proven front-office WINNING tradition!!  Howe has been in NHL management 17-years now, and his teams have made the playoffs 17 for 17!

Now, on the other hand... Ronnie?  A true gentleman and great guy I’m sure, but it’s clear -- being an understudy to JR just does not measure up!

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I'm pretty darn convinced Mark Howe has never been an assistant GM or GM, which makes him unproven in that capacity.  Just because you come from a winning culture doesn't mean you are automatically qualified to carry out job duties you've never had a responsibility to perform.

 

Personally, and in this day and age, I think attorney's and guys with business or finance degrees probably make better GM's, as opposed to long-time players.  Ask the Bruins, the Hawks and the Kings, the last 4 cup winners.

 

Again, nothing against Howe, but he's just as much a toss-up as Ron Francis, IMO.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I find that very hard to believe!

 

Well, then you are a heck of a lot more impressed with Greg's general management knowledge/expertise than I am.

 

Unless,... Greg is that you? :D

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So why isn't Buffalo jumping on this?  They have an immediate vacancy that needs to be filled.

Calgary could as well. They are turning it around, no question, but Brian Burke swore he will not be the Flames GM next season. And while Burkie is crazy enough to go back on that I don't think he will. I know it's (much) farther from Jersey than Detroit, but it's also a Canadian hockey market that can make the money so good Howe wouldn't care. Plus he knows that Conference much more intimately, seeing as Detroit was a Western Conference team until this year.

 

Furthermore, I still don't think there's much love lost between PK and Illich - but if PK really wants to risk pissing Mike Illich off again, asking if he can talk to Howe should probably do the trick.

 

I'm okay with them giving it to Ronnie and seeing what happens - as long as the fans are willing to speak up sooner if Ronnie fails than most have about Eric Staal. With the talent on this team, not making the playoffs year after year is simply not acceptable.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Perhaps Howe never found the right situation he wanted.

Perhaps Howe was (is being) pursued by other NHL teams.  You seem convinced it never happened. In the future, Philly could be likely. But if you need definitive answers, you’ll need to talk with Mark and the other teams.

The relevant point is: Would Mark Howe be a good pick for the Canes GM right here, right now?

I say Yes!

And I have listed some of the reasons in this thread.

Now, if you have specific reasons to think Mark Howe does not have the knowledge and know how to be a solid NHL GM please do advise as to why.

And again, if your point is simply "He's not a current GM, so he's not GM material" that's clearly weak logic! 

BTW, calling Howe "a scout" is like calling the SuperBowl "just another football game." 

Read up on Howe and you might actually learn a thing or two about the man, his character and his deep deep love and understanding of hockey!

And by the way, did I mention he's worked very closely with Ken Holland and Mike Babcock (Red Wings 22-years in a row making playoffs),  and oh yes, he learned hockey from his dad, a fellow named Gordie Howe and yes, he did win an Olympic medal in hockey for team USA when he was 16-years old and yes its true he's highly trusted by Steve Yzerman, etc etc etc. and with some research, you'll see his character is reported to be above reproach. Total class!!

This is the kind of guy we need around here... a person that comes from a proven front-office WINNING tradition!!  Howe has been in NHL management 17-years now, and his teams have made the playoffs 17 for 17!

Now, on the other hand... Ronnie?  A true gentleman and great guy I’m sure, but it’s clear -- being an understudy to JR just does not measure up!

Your logic misses one major possibility: Maybe Howe doesn't want to be a GM??

 

Even if he did, as Coastal accurately points out, it's as much a crap shoot as Ronnie. Now, if you want to talk about the best candidate among people who have never been GM and we don't know if they want to be, I'd pick Lavi. It would send a subtle but very clear message to our under-achievers (Eric and to a lesser extent Cam) that might make them think harder about whether to waive their NTCs in the off-season. And I think Lavi would be a great influence on Kirk.

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Guys, none of us are in a position to accurately reflect on the GM position for heaven's sakes. For instance, do we really know for sure that JR will step aside, and just how far? If he does, who then makes the decision about the new GM? If it is solely on PK's shoulders, just exactly what are his goals? If we cannot even hazard a guess as to which players will be here next season, something we are able to have some knowledge about, or what is the mood in the locker room, how can we even begin to predict who would fit here as the next GM, or for that matter, where do this organization's loyalties lie?

 

Greg does make good points, and rather than just dismiss his ideas out of hand, I'm willing to think on them.Top-shelf-1, yours and others' are equally compelling! For me, I'm just willing to see how this plays out, but fervently hope that the decision, if it is coming, is made with the purest of intent to get this team back to winning hockey!! Additionally, I hope the decision is made post haste, so that a new GM has his impact fully on the 14-15 team, rather that a "lame duck" exit strategy.

Edited by KJUNKANE

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Guys, none of us are in a position to accurately reflect on the GM position for heaven's sakes. For instance, do we really know for sure that JR will step aside, and just how far? If he does, who then makes the decision about the new GM? If it is solely on PK's shoulders, just exactly what are his goals? If we cannot even hazard a guess as to which players will be here next season, something we are able to have some knowledge about, or what is the mood in the locker room, how can we even begin to predict who would fit here as the next GM, or for that matter, where do this organization's loyalties lie?

 

Greg does make good points, and rather than just dismiss his ideas out of hand, I'm willing to think on them.Top-shelf-1, yours and others' are equally compelling! For me, I'm just willing to see how this plays out, but fervently hope that the decision, if it is coming, is made with the purest of intent to get this team back to winning hockey!! Additionally, I hope the decision is made post haste, so that a new GM has his impact fully on the 14-15 team, rather that a "lame duck" exit strategy.

 

This.

 

Let me sit in the interview room and maybe I could venture an opinion.  Saying you know who would make a good GM to meet the goals (business and hockey-wise) of PK, is literally the blind men discovering they have an elephant metaphor on steroids.

 

With GMs, I think we literally are lucky if we see 1% of the total picture of their job.  All we see is the talent they sign and how much.

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Guys, none of us are in a position to accurately reflect on the GM position for heaven's sakes. For instance, do we really know for sure that JR will step aside, and just how far? If he does, who then makes the decision about the new GM? If it is solely on PK's shoulders, just exactly what are his goals? If we cannot even hazard a guess as to which players will be here next season, something we are able to have some knowledge about, or what is the mood in the locker room, how can we even begin to predict who would fit here as the next GM, or for that matter, where do this organization's loyalties lie?

 

Greg does make good points, and rather than just dismiss his ideas out of hand, I'm willing to think on them.Top-shelf-1, yours and others' are equally compelling! For me, I'm just willing to see how this plays out, but fervently hope that the decision, if it is coming, is made with the purest of intent to get this team back to winning hockey!! Additionally, I hope the decision is made post haste, so that a new GM has his impact fully on the 14-15 team, rather that a "lame duck" exit strategy.

Yeah, it actually looks like JR will step down: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/puck-daddy/jim-rutherford-step-down-ron-francis-hurricanes-gm-170717144--nhl.html

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top, I read that also, but as we all have seen, JR not infrequently uses media tangentially to get messages across for less than obvious reasons. Not saying that we should suspect this, but also not ignoring the possibility that he won't have a change of heart, or that this is some type of unanticipated ploy.

 

However it's the 2nd part of my conundrum that to me is even more concerning, that is "step aside, and just how far". Thus, with the resignation, would he fully give up the reins, or will he continue to influence? If we are in agreement that the way this team is trending is and has become unacceptable, than even his sideline presence could be problematic?

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I would guess the GM replacement is definitely leaning towards Ron Francis (if anyone was really questioning that) based on the fact that the usually elusive RF was front and center on the broadcast last night answering questions from the fans.  I would guess we'll be seeing a lot more of him as the season winds down.

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as any who has seen jim rutherford make one mistake after another at certain points over the years i would be pleased with anyone who has a mind for todays game and understands when it is time to let go of players , sign players for the correct amount of money that  they put in effort that pertains to the cap  , drafts well and also makes great trades that help lift the team to stanley cup contention . 

 

if  mark howe is the guy for the job then lets see what he can do for our team ,  and believe me when i say this , im not against the new gm tanking the season next year so that we canes fans can get a  real elite player of the likes of  ( Connor McDavid ) on the team for the 2015 -2016 season .  and going forward !!! , but is it not too much to ask for us to trade eric and his good for nothing brother  to tamp to get drouin and maybe their 1st round pick for 2015 ? 

Edited by Canesfanforever

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You do realize that "his good for nothing brother" is a plus player, on a minus team, while matching up against everybody's top scoring line?  Let me break that down for you.  Jordan Staal has gone out every night, with what most of the board considers subpar line mates, played the majority of his minutes against the Crosbys, Ovechkins, and Girouxs of the league and out played them more often than not.  I understand that Jordan has not been the point per game center that many of us thought, but he has had a good season.  Eric has not had a good season and it may be time to trade him, which is complicated by the trade to bring in Jordan Staal, but I think most teams would love to have that "good for nothing brother" to send out against Crosby.

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