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Bruins VS Pens

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Anyone see the Thorton incident with Orpik? Just wondering what everybody's opinion is on it? I do agree its a coward move and should be suspended a decent amount. I don't think its anywhere near Bertuzzi's incident. My opinion is 10 games max, tripped him and suckered him twice with his glove. What I think should be looked at more, is James Neals attempt to injure on Brad Marchand, I thought that was just as dirty if not worse. A deliberant knee to the head when a player is down. 

 

Just wondering what everyones opinion is?

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Orpik deserves a suspension for the shot he took at Loui Eriksson...and Thornton deserves about 10 games for that stunt...and I like the guy too, but that was classless. 

 

Pens have been playing borderline dirty vs. the Bruins for several years...look at Matt Cooke vs. Marc Savard...Cooke destroyed and ended Savard's career

Edited by AWACSooner

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I'll never shed a tear over brooks orpik or the penguins.  After orpik's hit, he was immediately challenged to a fight and decline.  The guy is trash, those plays are all he's ever good for, and he refuses to fight.  Then somebody gets revenge on him, and i'm suppose to feel sorry?  Not happening.  A valid point was raised that if he had fought, even a bs fight where he turtles up, then it never would've happen.  He's classic dish it out but can't take it.

 

I think the pens know that they're perceived as being soft, with all the finesse-type players they have.  And when they play teams like Philly & Boston, who they know those teams have their numbers, they try to puff their chests out and play dirty.

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Sorry but Orpik's hit was clean. And him not fighting Thorton isn't what caused everything to happen. It was James Neal putting a knee to the head of another player. I hate Orpik just like the rest of you guys but he is not the blame for what happened.

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Orpik deserves a suspension for the shot he took at Loui Eriksson...and Thornton deserves about 10 games for that stunt...and I like the guy too, but that was classless. 

 

Pens have been playing borderline dirty vs. the Bruins for several years...look at Matt Cooke vs. Marc Savard...Cooke destroyed and ended Savard's career

This, but also the bruins arent   choirboys either, but i agree with  AWAC

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If you got a chance to catch this game...you saw what hockey should Not be- there was a nasty/questionable hit dished out by Orpik (who should have been kicked out of hockey years ago) to Erickson who left the game-Shawn Thornton then attempts to engage Orpik who declines...a little while after that- Crosby trips Brad Marchaun who goes down and as James Neal skates past him he slams his knee into Marchauns head- in comes Thornton who is still PO'd over the Orpiks hit earlier and he goes after Orpik again...pulls him to the ice and knocks him out- what I find ironic is that both teams are pointing a finger as if one is worse than the other. Here's a news flash for both teams and the league- THEY ARE BOTH DIRTY TEAMS! Both Thornton and Neal have hearings (phone and in person) and suspensions are coming you can bet on that- my question is who is responsible ? It's no secret both these teams are nasty they have played that way forever-at what point or should the league step in and say enough! It's one thing to play with intensity but it's entirely different to play wrecklessly. The officials have some responsibility as well- call the games-consistently- we all know that some teams "get away" with more than others- and some players "get away" with more as well. At what point does the league tell a player "you're done" for the safety of other players and yourself. Maybe teams should get hefty fines for players that play wrecklessly maybe coaches should be suspended as well- as for the game... Karma is a b- what goes around comes around- live by the sword die by the sword- if you dish it out you better be able to take it...all these saying come to mind- along with Sorry doesn't help once the damage is done...

One last thought -if this is "team toughness" I'll pass- GO CANES!

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Sorry but Orpik's hit was clean. And him not fighting Thorton isn't what caused everything to happen. It was James Neal putting a knee to the head of another player. I hate Orpik just like the rest of you guys but he is not the blame for what happened.

Thornton didn't go after orpik for what Neal did, he saw it as an opportunity to get back at him.

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I didn't see the game. I did see video of the Orpik take down by Thorton. It was a nasty cheap shot. I must admit I said to myself Orpik got what he deserved but then thought again that was a dirty cheap shot.

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I thought the hit by Orpik on Eriksson was borderline and because he had just come back from bad concussion, I think that's what set the whole mess off.  It may have technically been a clean hit but it sure looked like Orpik was targeting the head area and we all know that Orpik has a history of these types of hits.  That said, when Thornton tried to engage Orpik in a fight and was shot down, he should have left it at that and waited for another opportunity to send the message.

 

Then along comes James Neal who intentionally (without question)  knees Marchand in the head while he's down and all hell breaks loose that had been building all game.  I've always liked Shawn Thornton and wished the Canes had a player like that who could act as the enforcer but also contribute to the play on the ice but what Thornton did was off the charts and he knew it.

 

I think we'll easily see 2 guys get suspended but the sad part is there are 3 guys that will likely be out for awhile with head injuries.  I'm no fan of Orpik and although I think he should have to answer for that hit at some point,  he didn't deserve that.  I watched the NESN interviews with Shawn Thornton after the game and he looked pretty remorseful to me but I doubt its going to help him with this one.

 

These two teams dont meet again during the regular season so this wont be going away anytime soon.  Both Thornton and Neal will have to answer for their actions.

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The whole ethos of the 'designated fighter' is a bit misguided imo.  If Orpik wasn't going to engage, and Thornton was going to get a game misconduct anyways, why not rough up Neal, who's knee clearly seemed dirtier than Orpik's check?  So what if Neal isn't the Pens designated fighter?  Is it really much of a deterrent against future "liberties" if you don't target the individual taking them?  

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Whatever happened to respect among these players? 

 

The Orpik hit was no different than what Pietrangelo did to a defenseless Alex Semin coming from behind the net.

 

I feel awful for Eriksson.  Two concussions in a 5-week span.

 

Then the knee to the head while a guy is down.  Clearly intentional.

 

I'm not in any way a fan of either team, but all Orpik had to do was drop the glove and turtle and we wouldn't be talking about this.  Scumbag.

 

I guess Thorton just lost it out there.  I don't care what he says, he should also be gone for an extended time.

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I agree that Neal should have been the one targeted (and he will be) but PenaltyKiller17 is right and Thornton was using the scuffle over the Neal hit on Marchand to settle what he thought was his score with Orpik.



Whatever happened to respect among these players? 

 

The Orpik hit was no different than what Pietrangelo did to a defenseless Alex Semin coming from behind the net.

 

I feel awful for Eriksson.  Two concussions in a 5-week span.

 

Then the knee to the head while a guy is down.  Clearly intentional.

 

I'm not in any way a fan of either team, but all Orpik had to do was drop the glove and turtle and we wouldn't be talking about this.  Scumbag.

 

I guess Thorton just lost it out there.  I don't care what he says, he should also be gone for an extended time.

 

True story.

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Matt Cooke turtled every time someone came after him to exact vengeance for something stupid he did earlier in the game...it's the Pittsburgh way...then you get Sid to whine to the refs for the rest of the game.  Hell of a game plan!

 

Neal should get 3 games at least, Thornton should get 5-10 for that. 

 

And yah TSA, you're right...the B's do play borderline at times (pretty much always against the Habs, Slugs, Rags or Pens), but they're nowhere near the borderline dirty team that Pittsburgh has become.

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I'd have had less of a problem with what Thornton did if it was against Neal rather than Orpik.  Orpik's hit came during the flow of play and was at least borderline. If Thornton wanted to go after Orpik and couldn't goad him into a fight, imo "retaliation" should have come during the course of play, just like Orpik's original hit on Eriksson. 

 

Neal's knee came away from the play and with clear intent to injure imo, so I'd have had less problem with Thornton similarly returning that favor.  Not to say that retaliation against Neal after the play wouldn't have deserved a harsh penalty from the league, just that it would have seemed more "just" from a "street-wise" perspective.

 

Oh, and did Neal's knee remind anyone else of Edler's hit on Staal last summer? Different target, but both seemed to kind of leave the knee out there and glide into the target, as if that might mask the intent . . .   

 

Edit: One more observation. After watching Thornton's attack, it wasn't as brutal as I first imagined it would be.  His take down was more a trip than hurling Orpik to the ice like Orr did to Parros, and he hit him with his gloves on, not with his bare hands.  I suspect Thornton's intent was more to deliver a message than to inflict as much injury as possible.  Still completely unacceptable, but definitely not Bertuzzi-esque. 

Edited by LakeLivin

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Edit: One more observation. After watching Thornton's attack, it wasn't as brutal as I first imagined it would be.  His take down was more a trip than hurling Orpik to the ice like Orr did to Parros, and he hit him with his gloves on, not with his bare hands.  I suspect Thornton's intent was more to deliver a message than to inflict as much injury as possible.  Still completely unacceptable, but definitely not Bertuzzi-esque. 

 

This whole mess is what keeps a lot of fans away.  And I can't completely blame them.

 

I didn't like Orpik's hit.  I'm not sure it was technically OK.  I thought the head was targetted.

 

The knee job was absolutely ridiculous.  As said elsewhere, do players have any respect for each other anymore?

 

Finally, the quote above on the Thornton take down.  I think Orpik was OK on the take down, and even the first little jab.  The second jab to the temple -- although it didn't look strong -- was on the temple with Orpik's head on the ice.  Basically, a double-temple hit, one from the punch, the other from the ice.  Nasty.

 

Thornton lost his mind to go into the scrum like that.  Nothing good can ever come out of that.

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This whole mess is what keeps a lot of fans away.  And I can't completely blame them.

 

I didn't like Orpik's hit.  I'm not sure it was technically OK.  I thought the head was targetted.

 

The knee job was absolutely ridiculous.  As said elsewhere, do players have any respect for each other anymore?

 

Finally, the quote above on the Thornton take down.  I think Orpik was OK on the take down, and even the first little jab.  The second jab to the temple -- although it didn't look strong -- was on the temple with Orpik's head on the ice.  Basically, a double-temple hit, one from the punch, the other from the ice.  Nasty.

 

Thornton lost his mind to go into the scrum like that.  Nothing good can ever come out of that.

I think this type of mess keeps some fans away and is an attraction for others. Personally, I'm with you; I don't think it should have any place in the game.  

 

Orpik's hit: the reason I'm not sure about this was that Eriksson was pretty low, head at Orpik's shoulder height.  So while Orpik didn't avoid the head, I couldn't tell that he necessarily targeted it, either. 

 

Neal's knee: should be 5 game minimum and up depending on past history, imo.  And like I said, I wouldn't have had a big problem with an immediate Boston retaliation on Neal following the knee.  Of course, Boston should have the expectation that Neal would undergo a severe penalty from the league and that retaliation on their part would result in penalties of their own, both during the game and league discipline afterward.  But if they were willing to pay that price for personal retribution, well, . . .

 

Thornton's attack: like I said, when I read the headlines I thought "Bertuzzi".  And it wasn't.  While I don't think it was exceptionally brutal in the execution, I think it demonstrates how dangerous physical altercations on the ice can be.  Like you said, the take down and the punches weren't particularly vicious, but that second punch probably propelled Orpiks head into the ice, which is what likely did the damage (brain starts moving from the punch and then slams into the skull when it comes to a sudden stop against the ice). 

Edit: while not as vicious as I thought it would be, still inexcusable imo.

Edited by LakeLivin

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I'm from Boston, so I am still a Bruins fan. Thornton is a very honest player, and the best example of a tough guy that can play, That being said, what he did to Orpik was filthy, and the league should throw the book at him. I don't blame Orpik for not fighting. You shouldn't have to defend yourself for a clean hit. Neal should also face a long suspension. I really like hockey, but these hits ,whose only intent are to injure, need to stop.

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I don't like Orpik but I can see why he didn't fight. 4th line guy takes top pair defenseman off ice for 5 mins is not smart. Neal is a cowardly cheap shot artist and deserves at least 5 games. Thornton was way out of line with the slew foot and punching Orpic while down. Wrong on so many levels. He deserves a BIG suspension. This goonish crap is an embarrassment to hockey! Drop the hammer Shanny!

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I don't like Orpik but I can see why he didn't fight. 4th line guy takes top pair defenseman off ice for 5 mins is not smart. Neal is a cowardly cheap shot artist and deserves at least 5 games. Thornton was way out of line with the slew foot and punching Orpic while down. Wrong on so many levels. He deserves a BIG suspension. This goonish crap is an embarrassment to hockey! Drop the hammer Shanny!

 

He should receive the maximum penalty allowed by the rule book

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I agree with pretty much everything already mentioned, but criticism needs to go beyond just a couple of players wearing their emotions and vindictiveness on their sleeves. A lot of that "Slap Shot" mentality could have been avoided or kept in check had the refs done their intended job from the beginning and called it as they saw it.

Instead, refs call what they want and when they want because the league tolerates it and fans are ok with it, as long as there are some make-up calls to even out the penalty minutes. It's time for some people to pull their heads out of their collective lower intestines and work on an acceptable standard before someone ends up in a wheelchair or worse.

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Orpik's hit was clean, but it was also dirty. That might not make sense to you, but look at it this way. The hit followed the rules, but the decision to hit him while he was in that vulnerable a position is dirty. So the hit was clean in relation to the rules, but dirty in relation to the situation surrounding the hit. And we all know it isn't the first time Brooks Orpik made a hit that shouldn't have been made.

I still hate him for ruining Erik Cole's career, and now he may have ruined another person's career.

 

Just my two pennies.

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I still hate him for ruining Erik Cole's career, and now he may have ruined another person's career.

 

Just my two pennies.

 

Exactly.

 

We can talk about refs blowing it (which I agree with to a point). 

 

But ultimately it comes down to player's respect for each other.

 

Cole's career was changed, and probably ruined as Sucka says, by Mr. Orpik.

 

Yet after the hit, many pundits were still talking about Erik sharing more than 50% of the fault because he had his head down.  

 

With that logic, we should say that Orpik shouldn't have been in the scrum he was in and should have instead calmly skated to the bench to take himself out of it.  That way, Thornton would never have felt the need to pull him down.

 

In the end, these guys are ruining each other's careers and they don't seem to care.  If anything, their union supports it by fighting many of the discipline rules.  It is a very strange relationship.

 

EDIT: after I wrote the above, I drove to work listening to the morning guys on XM.  They further brought up the point as to why doesn't the PA get involved in disciplining their members when they do harm against each other?  I know my dad worked for a union that would discipline members who worked "off the clock" under the idea that you were taking away work from other members and doing harm to others.  The NHLPA should discipline members that deny work opportunties for other members.  But I guess they only are concerned about hatred of ownership.  That's their right I guess.

Edited by wxray1

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The NHLPA has quite a bit of influence in the discipline process via the CBA.

 

I think the reason we don't see Shanny throwing the book at boneheads too often is because every suspension that he hands out that's more than five (or six?) games, carries an automatic appeal that goes to Bettman and a neutral arbitrator and he has to justify himself. Looks like the NHLPA is more concerned about the income of violators than trying to curb overaggressive and irresponsible behavior. 

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