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ThaRaven

Gleason traded to Toronto for John-Michael Liles and a Prospect.

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You guys are so negative.

 

There is NOTHING better we could get in return for Gleason and his 4mil cap hit. As of now, neither player was playing and wasting time (and essentially money) in the press box. Now, both players can be utilized to help their new teams. Liles is a great offensive presence on the blueline and will probably mentor Murphy a ton. This way, Murph won't be thrown into crazy situations and he can take his time to learn (or go to Charlotte for a bit even). Liles is still a great 4-5 D-man in the NHL. The only reason he was in the AHL was because of his salary. Toronto needed a stay at home D-man, Carolina needed some more offensive presence from the blue line. Both have extremely similar cap hits, therefore this is a trade that works both ways. The prospect was thrown in likely due to the age difference (Liles is 33, Gleason 30). Liles can contribute on the powerplay, he has great instincts of sneaking in for back-door feeds, great shot, and good skating. People probably assume he'll be like M.A. Bergeron but no. Much more controlled in his own end. The other "folk tale" of needing to be tougher for the Metro division is a joke. We still have Harrison, Bellemore, and Komisarek who are all defensive d-men that can hit and use their size. Adding Liles subtracts nothing of that such. Aside from all this, Liles is a great person, he is charitable, and is very funny (follow him on twitter). I think he will fit in well with the nice people in the south.

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Paulobie, thanks for the input, good luck to your  team, the rest of the way... I will miss Timmy, especially that  save at the blue-line in playoff  game in joisey :)    Liles should be in the line up  tonight??

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Hi folks

 

I'm a Leafs fan living in Western Canada, and I happened to see some of the chat here about JML and Gleason yesterday.

 

Just wanted to add some info on Liles for you in case you were wondering about his odd few years in Toronto.

 

I think you guys will like JML if your defence mix is right. 

 

I'll start by saying Liles was rolling along fine until about a year and a half ago when he suffered a concussion which just happened to be the kind that took a long time for him to get his feet back under him. He's been fine for quite a while though. Before that he was a talented puck handling defenceman, very smart, not a huge guy, but capable of running a power play. He has some defensive lapses like a lot of defencemen who play that style, but if he's paired up with the right guy it's not a big problem. I don't think his age is any worry, he's still a good skater.

 

What happened since his injury was JML became a victim of a numbers game. First off, two young Leafs defencemen, Gardiner and Rielly, who play the same style, very quickly showed well as 23- and 19-year-old regulars and needed more icetime to improve. Second, when the cap went way down last summer the leafs had to do some creative math to make the numbers work, and sending Liles to the minors was part of the equation to make everything fit (Gardiner and Rielly are making a lot less obviously). With a skull fracture last year and a knee operation this year to dman Mark Fraser, the team had plenty of offensive dmen but lost a stay at home guys with a little sandpaper to his game. The Leafs are hoping Gleason can fill that role again for them. Fraser just hasn't come back to the level he played last season. Gleason doesn't have to be a fighter on the Leafs, they already have too many, but the hope is he can get back to playing a nasty game in his own end. 

 

Liles was totally classy about the demotion. The Leafs involved him mentoring players with the AHL Marlies, especially with the young defencemen. He played hard while he was down there and quite often looked out of place because his skills were so evident.

 

You'll go crazy if you to on Leaf fan sites looking for opinions of different players. A faction seems to cheer more for individual players rather than the team. For instance, there are fans pissed off right now because Bernier is doing well in net because they are fans of Reimer. Both are pretty close in terms of talent but Bernier's on a roll right now. Some didn't like Liles because he wasn't a banger. Phaneuf, who is a horse on defence, lugging over 25 minutes a game against the league's top lines, gets criticized because he doesn't skate through the opposition every game and score a goal. It's an odd fanbase. I still see fans complain about losing average players who were traded 25 years ago.

 

So, from most fans' perspective, JML is a character guy to have on the team, he's a good puckmover playmaker, power play guy. Also, he has a limited no-trade contract, which means he has a list of 12 teams where he can be traded.

 

The prospect that was part of the deal, Brown I think his name is, is a big rugged stay at home college defenceman who isn't projected at the moment to be an NHLer, but who knows.  

 

Good luck the rest of the year.

Thanks and welcome :)

 

Sounds like a win/win for both teams if each player can get back to playing well.  What I most liked about your write up was that JML also had a NMC and he agreed to come here to Carolina.  Yes, the odds are better with a list of 12 potential destinations and its probably not as tough to get players to come here as it is in Buffalo and Edmonton but I doubt a small market struggling southern team who isn't currently sitting in a playoff position is in the top 3 for many players.

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I'll Miss Gleason, he was our top defenseman and hardest worker and hardest hitter for years. He was a classy guy and I wish him the best.

I'm excited to see Liles on the PP. All you whiners don't realize we just got a PP specialist who puts up 35-50points a year on defense(more than J. Staal, Ruutu, tlusty, Semin will put up this year). Gleason was not even in line up most of this year so to add an offensively skilled D man who can help the PP is not a bad move at all. Our PP is so skilled and has so much potential but is just missing the confident guy who really knows how to get it set up and running, maybe he's the man. anyone that can help us score goals at this point is welcome in my opinion.

Thanks to the Toronto fan for some insight on Liles.

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I want to thank Gleason for the good years and giving everything he had each night. Classy guy. Unfortunately, times have changed and a change up was needed. Best of luck in Toronto.

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First, now that it is official. thank you Tim Gleason for your time as a Hurricane. Absolutely a key figure in the history of this team. 

 

We kind of have a bilateral discussion going on this, so my main opinion is in the In Season Update and Talk thread, but..

 

Second, I also want to thank Paulobie for his insight. It is very refreshing to hear reasoned thoughts from "the other side". It does make me feel even better about this trade.

 

Third, (I don't usually number these, but I'm on a roll), I really don't think post-concussion Gleason really wanted to fight. I don't blame him either. We'll see if he fights in Toronto....

 

Fourth, w/ no fighter, how about this. We just don't fight. Takes two to tangle. We've had a mere smattering of fights this year anyways. Most games go by w/ no fights. Look, despite my general anti-fighting stance, I like to watch them, but I just hate taking up a roster spot for a goon. It does not seem to accomplish anything. If someone runs a player of ours. Just run one of theirs. That's more intimidating anyway. Sure we might get a penalty, but gets the message out. Cheap shots will be met with cheaper shots. This does not mean we can't play physical. We just don't drop the gloves, stop the show and go into "side show" fighting.  I know a lot of people will hat this, but I'll say this. W/ Westgarth and Gleason gone, and Harrison post concussion. Anyone we offer up now...will probably lose, and possibly badly. So why bother? 

 

Fifth: IF JML gets our PP going, it will lift a 10 ton weight off of this team. It remains THE biggest weakness of this team. This fills a HUGE need for this team.

 

Sixth: The inevitable tension of having your alternate captain regularly scratched and constant trade bait being relieved should be like a 5 ton weight off the team.

 

Seventh: Gleason's contract, complete w/ NTC, combined w/ his obvious decline combined with his constant healthy scratching did not provide much trade bait. It was a good hockey trade. 

 

Eighth: Between last year and this year, it is fairly constant that at least 2 dmen will go down at a time. There is a very nice aspect of having "too many" dmen. You almost can't have too many unless you want to regularly dip your toes in the AHL talent pool. We tried that last year...

 

Sure, if we could have predicted Gleason's decline we could have gotten more at some earlier point, but who would have favored trading him then? It wasn't that long ago we (self included) were pumped we re-signed him early. People who want to trade our declining guys for other team's rising stars? Well we can all wish.

Edited by remkin

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Hi folks

 

1) I'm a Leafs fan living in Western Canada, and I happened to see some of the chat here about JML and Gleason yesterday.

 

2) Liles was totally classy about the demotion. The Leafs involved him mentoring players with the AHL Marlies, especially with the young defencemen. He played hard while he was down there and quite often looked out of place because his skills were so evident.

 

3) You'll go crazy if you to on Leaf fan sites looking for opinions of different players. A faction seems to cheer more for individual players rather than the team. For instance, there are fans pissed off right now because Bernier is doing well in net because they are fans of Reimer. Both are pretty close in terms of talent but Bernier's on a roll right now. Some didn't like Liles because he wasn't a banger. Phaneuf, who is a horse on defence, lugging over 25 minutes a game against the league's top lines, gets criticized because he doesn't skate through the opposition every game and score a goal. It's an odd fanbase. I still see fans complain about losing average players who were traded 25 years ago.

4) Good luck the rest of the year.

1) Thanks for taking the time to chime in! It's nice to have some actual informed input as compared to impressions and speculation.

 

2) That's great to hear!  Although vastly different circumstances, sounds like there may be some similarities with Manny Malhotra.  From what I gather, Manny has assumed somewhat of a mentoring role with the Canes and he looks to be awarded the A that's been vacated by Gleason's move despite only being with the team for about 2 months.  Imo, Manny's added value to our team goes well beyond what he provided on the ice.  The thought of getting some more of the same on the defensive end is encouraging. 

 

3)  :rofl: Take a look at some of the posts on our boards about Cam Ward and you'll see that this phenomenon is familiar to us as well.  I call it the "High School Football Team Effect", where people chose a side and defend it to the death regardless of what's actually happening in the real world.

 

4) Right back at ya!    

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Thanks for the info on JML Paulobie. Always nice to hear from classy fans of other teams. I'm looking forward to seeing what JML can do for us. I bet he is hungry to play after so much AHL time and the slate is clear here for a fresh start.

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: IF JML gets our PP going, it will lift a 10 ton weight off of this team. It remains THE biggest weakness of this team. This fills a HUGE need for this team.

 

Rem, I think the best thing the Canes could do to minimize teams taking physical liberties would be to get better on the power play.  As it is, and has been for a long time, teams can play on the ragged edge and not worry if they are penalized.  I think that would be a better deterrent than Westgarth sitting on the bench or Gleason in the press box.

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I myself sometimes wonder if the Canes organization doesn't want players to fight/hit much. Are they trying to be a politically correct organization and not show that side of Hockey? We have had some tough players (Gleason back in the day, Allen, to name a few) that would hit real hard and drop the gloves in  a heartbeat, but in the last few/many seasons the Canes don't hit that much, hardly ever fight and get pushed around a lot and very rarely stand up for a team mate that gets blasted or gets hit with a cheap shot!  I would really like the Canes to get the physicality back into the game on their side of the ice!!

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I'm a Leafs fan but I like the Canes and am hoping this trade is good for both teams.  Liles WILL be missed.  The team has not utilized him properly and it looks like he'll get good playing time now.  He's a solid veteran, great with young guys on the team and a man of character who took the neglect by the organization in stride like a pro.  Meanwhile we are hopeful that Gleason will be the D man we badly need. 

Hoping for the best for both guys and both teams. 

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Yea his +2 was brutal. Hainsey sucked tonight was directly responsible for 2 of the goals and on his knees somewhat in Dobby's way for the 3rd.

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This is like the new corvo.  This guy is a total defensive liability based on his first game.

That's a bit harsh. As you said: based on his FIRST game. Give the guy some more games before he is labeled a "defensive liability"

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This is like the new corvo.  This guy is a total defensive liability based on his first game.

 I'm sorry, bluedevil58, unless this is a facetious remark, and you did not indicate it to be, but I watched him as best I could thru the TV man's perspective, and I thought he played amazingly well compared to what we'd read out of the Toronto press! Certainly his PP presence was not a negative either.

As an aside, a friend texted me something that I'm curious about and wonder if anyone else can verify. Seems he's seen how Timmy was disgruntled with Mueller's coaching style, and showed up at training camp way out of shape. To me, that doesn't sound like the Gleason I've loved over the past several years, but could be some insight into Tim's deteriorating play(as well as the concussion and subsequent injury). Can anyone shed light on this, or is this just some fanatasy?

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I thought Liles had several defensive break downs which led to add man rushes.

 

His first game with a new team where he doesn't know anything about the system. That's like criticizing a new employee on his first day because he doesn't know how to use software that's specific to your company.

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Oh I know. I just have bad experiences with our recent offensive defense men in McBain, Corvo, and Sangs. I guess we will truly never find a legit Pitkanen replacement. Now that guy was a beast!

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To anyone interested- here is a link Timmy will be interviewed at 1:30 http://tsn.ca/toronto/listen

 

Thanks for the link. I listened to the Timmy interview. To me he sounded matter of fact and put the best spin on the situation but mentioned the long time he had been in Raleigh and friends in and out of hockey he made. It was a little sad to listen to him. But he did indicate that after he came back from the concussion it was clear he wasn't in the plan. I think he said his plan is to come back to Raleigh with the family over the summer.

 

He seemed glad to be in Toronto from a hockey perspective.

 

Trades are tough but they are part of hockey.

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As an aside, a friend texted me something that I'm curious about and wonder if anyone else can verify. Seems he's seen how Timmy was disgruntled with Mueller's coaching style, and showed up at training camp way out of shape. To me, that doesn't sound like the Gleason I've loved over the past several years, but could be some insight into Tim's deteriorating play(as well as the concussion and subsequent injury). Can anyone shed light on this, or is this just some fanatasy?

 

Doesn't sound like Gleason to me either. Maybe your friend can provide some links or references to back it up?

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I recall a few years back (pre-Muller) Gleason had earned the nickname "the big husky" at the beginning of one season, which seemed to be directed at his having put on a few pounds in the off-season, so I would not be surprised if he had a tendency to come into camp in a bit less than ideal shape. (I actually thought that JR calling out McBain for not being in shape after trading him was a way to send a message to Gleason. I imagine that JR realized that was a bone of contention between Gleason and Muller, and I think from JR's comments - over the years and after the trade - that he though highly of Gleason, and likely didn't want it to reach the point that he had to be traded. Recall that there were rumors that Jokinen was generally not in the best of shape to start seasons, and he ended up in the coach's doghouse as well, so that would seem to be a quick way to get on his bad side.)

 

Gleason has made a career out of being a physical, stay at home, defensive defenseman. I suspect playing for a coach that has stated publicly that he doesn't believe there is a place in today's NHL for a defensive defenseman was bound to end badly. I had noticed last season that Gleason seemed to be making much more of an attempt to join in the rush, and contribute offensively. It seemed odd at the time, but after hearing Muller's comments, it made sense. But that is not Gleason's game. And asking him to play that kind of a game is asking him to play to his weaknesses, not his strengths. I imagine that would be frustrating for a player.

 

Hopefully things will go well for him in Toronto. He is now in a place where his skill-set probably better matches the style of play his coach wants, and if he gets back to playing his game, he may have quite a few more years of good hockey in him.

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Just read this tweet:

 

James Mirtle @mirtle 10h

Tim Gleason outside of the top six at Leafs practice. Way Nonis spoke of him after trade, he'd start as No. 7 and have to earn ice.

 

Tough way to start for Tim Gleason.  Meanwhile, JML was thrown into the fire last night playing in all situations, even some I bet he was surprised he was playing in.  Poor Timmy isn't in Kansas anymore.  I hope he earns his chance and runs with it, except against the Canes.

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This is like the new corvo.  This guy is a total defensive liability based on his first game.

He was paired with Murphy------weak defensive pairing. Two like players

together. He will be much better with, say Harrison, when he returns.

 

Timmy was always a favorite of mine. I will miss him. But I suspect he and

JR had some serious discussion about the changing nature of the defense

under this coach. It was not Tim's style. I believe he was willing to waive his

NTC because JR was willing to try to place him near all his folks in the

Northern Michigan area. Probably a mutually agreeable move. Because

of the NTC Tim had some say in all of this. It was not like he was just "traded"

out of the blue---so that was appropriate for the hard working, loyal core teammate

Gleason has always been. I wish you well, Tim. The defensive D with a little snarl

is what Toronto is looking for. Play your game, buddy.

Edited by UNCCaniac8

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