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bluedevil58

Why the Canes will miss the playoffs again?

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TSA said:  Nomar, I sure hope youre watching the game right now because while youre planning your next witty response, your shining goalie Khudobin appears to be in some trouble. 

 

The super-dave said: I guess tonight the team isn't confident in Ward's ability to open the bench door and that is the problem

 

Why did I know that if the Canes lost things like this would be said? Surely you both don't think before you post, this IS insane super_dave, I understand your frustration now. So now everytime Khudobin loses you'll pounce on it and say 'see!, see! he loses too!' No kidding! I have never contended he'd go undefeated and certainly Dallas is a far superior team to the lowly Sabres. And, to boot, I agree, this was a serious Canes TEAM loss against a team that came out with speed and energy. I know you'll jump on that too saying 'that is what I'm talking about' and I woud agree about their many funks BUT I have little doubt that Khudobin is a far better goalie than Ward and YES, he showed it tonight with superior saves despite the loss.

 

Exercise better judgement and stop picking 'the moment' (as in Khudobin lost tonight) to justify a poor 5-year performance on your preferred choice as goalie. Or maybe my biggest 'slip' is putting Quick on the wrong LA area team... What an infantile knit pick not really germane to the discussion at hand.

 

So once again super-dave, I feel your pain and frustration, some of the responses don't even dignify a response. Kind of like a Blue Devil fan should never have a discussion with a UNC'er on whos best, it will never amount to anything because emotion rules.

 

BTW, I suspect the Canes WILL go into their common depression now, like the monster losing streaks they are know for. This because they are pretty clearly on the road to sinking to the bottom with 2 important losses. YES this is a team problem but NO it doesn't prove any big point IN THE CONTEXT OF WHOS THE BETTER GOALIE. Perhaps if softie Ward won against the Sabres, their energy would have been much higher last night. Don't you think that maybe that's why Muller chose to put Ward in against the weak Sabres, figuring it would build Ward's confidence with a win? Unfortunately it backfired.

Edited by Nomar

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One thing is for certain.  Another year of looking like the Canes will not make the playoffs has turned us all against each other.  Everyone, we are all in the 'Frustrated' boat.  Let's agree that this TEAM is not playing well and the fact that it isn't ONE problem makes it harder because we want to be able to come up with the solution to turn this ship around.  

 

Wouldn't it be fun if we were sitting comfortably in the top positions and we were talking about the 'tweak' the team would need at trade deadline to make us true cup contenders instead?

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Canes 4+ year powerless play has now gotten worse.  Not only do they continue to go 0-for all again, now they're giving up shorties with the man advantage.  Everyone associated with coaching the PP system for this team should be immediately fired.   

How stupid they look .... multiple years with the same problem ( really problemS ) and never doing anything to fix it.

After 12 years as a season tix holder ... I'm done.   Will find something better to spend that $$ on next year.  Maybe a boat !

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I have to agree with you Cans-Fan-In-Montreal, I think there is a high level of frustration here and it shows. I am certainly frustrated and have chosen to voice my opinion on what (In my opinion) is one of the most egregious problems, the net minder, the only one who plays 60 mins per game and essentially (other than the real core players) the only one that hasn't been swapped out... until perhaps now. So I have chosen to point out that Khudobin has made a real difference while he's been in and of course that brings out the flamers, but I don't know why other than some emotional attachment to the guy who was the nets for the now distant cup year. 

 

I played the position for over 8 years (in HS and College, many moons ago) and as a result I think I've developed a critical eye for picking through what can be wrong with a Goalie. I've 'felt' the same lack of confidence at times that I see in Ward but the thing his, he's in serious need of adjustments, problems I have now seen for several years with him, not just in 2013-2014. I honestly see slower reactions, poor positioning in the net (Trip Tracy mentioned one that has been ongoing, he doesn't post up and can be beaten on the short side easily), he tends to go down way too early... and on and on. Watch Khudobin, he's much quicker in all respects and that leads to saves Ward no longer makes. So I stand by my implications and statements, he IS a part of the problem. Maybe recoverable but time has run out in my opinion. We have someone who is now skillfully prepared to take the #1 slot. Management should make the decision and move forward just like they did with Eric Cole and Tim Gleason and a host of others who were too long in the local saddle. Who knows, maybe trading Ward to another team will light his fire? I tend to think not, realistically he has never been in the superstar class like Roy, Brodeur, Dryden, Billy Smith (old Islander dynasty), Esposito (Tony) and a host of others. I see SOME of that in Khudobin but way too early to tell - he needs the time to fully blossom but he's ready. Play the heck out of him. let him become the iron man and I believe the Canes become the better team quickly. They have the talent and at times the fire because Khudobin's dynamic saves bring it out. Ward doesn't anymore, too may softies that are deflating...

Edited by Nomar

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TSA said:  Nomar, I sure hope youre watching the game right now because while youre planning your next witty response, your shining goalie Khudobin appears to be in some trouble. 

 

The super-dave said: I guess tonight the team isn't confident in Ward's ability to open the bench door and that is the problem

 

Why did I know that if the Canes lost things like this would be said? Surely you both don't think before you post, this IS insane super_dave, I understand your frustration now. So now everytime Khudobin loses you'll pounce on it and say 'see!, see! he loses too!' No kidding! I have never contended he'd go undefeated and certainly Dallas is a far superior team to the lowly Sabres. And, to boot, I agree, this was a serious Canes TEAM loss against a team that came out with speed and energy. I know you'll jump on that too saying 'that is what I'm talking about' and I woud agree about their many funks BUT I have little doubt that Khudobin is a far better goalie than Ward and YES, he showed it tonight with superior saves despite the loss.

 

Haven't I said numerous times that Khudobin has taken over the #1 spot?  Keep stirring the pot.

 

And yes, it is a team failure, but you admit that and then try to deny anybody using that to deflect any blame from the goalie.  Since you are an ex-goalie and and expert on all things goalie, why not send your resume to the Canes.  They obviously need some help.

 

edit: Mods, any way to move all this bull hockey over to the goalie thread?

Edited by super_dave_1

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I still say that if one has to point to one thing: POWER PLAY.

 

I do think, despite his age that Lindholm is good on it.

 

Normally the PP is overrated, but not when you are either really great at it or really stink at it.

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super_dave, why the nasties? I'm not trying to stir the pot and please remember you started the mess by posting you're snide remark about us not thinking before we posted. Don't know what bug is up your whatever but you're awfully easily stirred where no stirring is intended. I agree you said yes about swapping goalie but then had the flame just noted because I chose the path the goalie was the MAIN problem. That is where you seem to have chosen to put an unmovable stake in the ground. 

 

So basically you say team failure, I say mainly goalie failure, you disagree then pull the 'see you say team failure too!' one shot. I think you need to learn to read things with a more unbiased, more even keeled eye. You seem to be looking to disagree and jump at every turn. Feel free if it's what make you tick.

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super_dave, why the nasties? I'm not trying to stir the pot and please remember you started the mess by posting you're snide remark about us not thinking before we posted. Don't know what bug is up your whatever but you're awfully easily stirred where no stirring is intended. I agree you said yes about swapping goalie but then had the flame just noted because I chose the path the goalie was the MAIN problem. That is where you seem to have chosen to put an unmovable stake in the ground. 

 

So basically you say team failure, I say mainly goalie failure, you disagree then pull the 'see you say team failure too!' one shot. I think you need to learn to read things with a more unbiased, more even keeled eye. You seem to be looking to disagree and jump at every turn. Feel free if it's what make you tick.

 

If you take my comments as "flames" or "nasties", then buck up.  You can't post whatever you want to and expect no response.  You throw out there the "I played goalie" thing, it's going to draw return fire.  You are right.  I am a moron and know nothing.

 

By the way, not "stirred", just worn out from this constant argument that Cam Ward is the whole/main problem with this team.  Maybe I didn't play goalie for 8 years, but I know what I see.

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Fine, I'll take it as a typical misread of emotion that occurs when text is involved instead of personal contact where one can see the expressions behind the thought. Just keep in mind that my second post (ever) on this board drew an implication of 'dummie' from you. How else am I supposed to read 'Don't you guys think before you post' comment after I simply stated my original case. Nor do I even begin to imagine why you think I'm calling you or anyone else a moron because I'm saying I played goalie and have some insight into what makes one tick. I had virtually NO intention of doing that yet you see my post that way. I was coached about those things, that's why I mentioned them so that one really surprises me.This is the first board I have posted on in years and my second post drew a snide comment... maybe you can see why I view much of what you say as said in anger and ready to disagree, you yourself have indicated you're kind of tired of that. If you really are then be a little more careful on how you word things (like the implication I'm calling you a moron - that's very combative) and I won't be ready to read them as said in anger. That's simply the way they have appeared to me since your FIRST one to me.

Edited by Nomar

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We have a Personal Messenger that members can use for private discussions.  Since the discussion seems to be more a I said, you said conversation perhaps it would be better in private and let the thread return to topic.

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Lets hope based on how mediocre the Canes are this season and right now they DONT make the playoffs.  because if they do then management will get into 'we've got something good going here' mentality when we really don't.  We need to bring in 2 banging forwards and a bone crunching D man.  Use Ward as trade bait since he has lost his mojo here and needs a change of scenary.  Same with J. Staal.  The guy is huge but plays a small mans game; never finishes his checks with a thud always a tap.  Plus he is just not a scorer who will give you second line center numbers of 25-30 goals a season.  He has 'cement hands' too slow.

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Every thread on this board reverts to the "goalie issue" because some see Cam Ward as being almost solely responsible for "why the Canes will miss the playoffs again". I just think it is more complex than any one player. We also have a "Why can't we win thread" which is honestly the same as this one, however it does allow an additional spot to player bash.

 

Edited by TSA

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Every thread on this board reverts to a goalie issue because some see it as their moral responsibility to regurgitate their opinion as many times and in as many places as possible somehow thinking this will magically alter the opinion of others that don't share the same exact opinion as them. 

 

We realize that frustration is at an all time high and sometimes people just need to be able to vent respectfully.  If that frustration spills over in several threads we understand, but what we cant understand and will no longer put up with are the arguments and personal attacks on each other. 

 

As OBXer posted,  personal arguments need to be taken to private message and any further personal attacks or baiting of others will be deleted or edited and warnings handed out.   If someone thinks they are being baited or attacked, either ask for some clarification to make sure you understood the intention of the poster or report it.

 

The Canes are not doing well and good discussions are getting harder and harder to come by so lets not drive away our contributing members,  the Canes are doing a fine job of that on their own.

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I can't say that we will make the playoffs or that we won't. I love my Canes, and feel miserable right now, but I keep hoping and won't lose that hope until we are :officially  "eliminated from playoff contention"

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I can't say that we will make the playoffs or that we won't. I love my Canes, and feel miserable right now, but I keep hoping and won't lose that hope until we are :officially  "eliminated from playoff contention"

 

 

"never ever give up"  keep fighting until you are out of the chase.  Even then, there is always nexr year.

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I am in no way saying "look, Khudobin loses too", but after the last couple of games, does anybody really believe the blame falls on any one player? Kudo has certainly outplayed Ward and deserves the top spot, but even the Great Khudini isn't enough to lift this bunch into the playoffs.

Heart

Will to win

Whatever it takes

Passion

These are all things that seem to be missing. It's become a culture of accepting mediocrity. The death spiral continues. STH sales will go down again. Crowds will continue to get smaller. Revenue will go down.

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Maybe it's time to call the offense back from their spring break. 4 goals in 3 games shows a lack of the four keys mentioned by super_dave_1.

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You guys who question the athlete's heart or passion are out of your minds and that's probably one of the stupidest things I've ever heard on this board. The players probably take the losses worse than the fans.

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It is absolutely stunning how fast these guys went from 11-4 and beating a super elite team and very very much in the playoff hunt to 1-6 and basically out of it. 

 

THAT is inconsistency. I'm the last person who can say what the problem is from out on my Island, but these guys have disappointed me as much as any Canes team I can recall. I still say they have the horses. But it seems pretty obvious something has to change. There will be lots and lots of post mortem analysis. Mostly the same people will say the same things. 

 

But one thing is for sure. The top 6 forwards all produced substantially less than their career averages and way off their best with the singular exception of Skinner, who is actually still on a career year in ppg, BUT has been BAD the last 4 games with zero points and MINUS 7 in those losses. Skinner is -12 for the year, -7 of that in the last 4 games. Home boy trip was actually calling him out and showing Ole' defense clips on Skinner yesterday.

 

PPG This year/Career/Second best year:

 

Eric: .82/.90/1.00

Jord: .45/.57/.71

Semin: .63/.72/ 1.27

Tlusty: .35/.40/.56 (last year .79)

Ruutu:.29/.54/.68

Skinner: .81/.72/.76

 

But it's really kind of worse than it looks for a couple of people. 

 

Jordan and Tlusty are still early in their carriers and had years of checking roles averaged in. 

Jordan's last two years before Carolina: .64 ppg. This year .45 ppg.

Tlusty? OK last year was an aberration? 2 years ago .46. So his progression over 4 years: .21, .46, .79, .35. 

 

And Ruutu? Holy cow. Just look up there. 

 

Pretty clear why I was more "sunny" in my hopes for this team. Put our top 6 on their career averages and it's a different tune.

 

 

With Ruutu, we have the hips. But everyone else? 

 

That top line never got anywhere near what is was doing last year either.  

 

 

Was it the defense first? Was it lack of motivation? But these are the same players compared to themselves....

It is really hard to see how Muller escapes this.

 

 

Lots of time for depressing post mortem analysis. But we still have business at hand.

 

Time to start the meaningless last ditch run down the draft board.

Edited by remkin

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You guys who question the athlete's heart or passion are out of your minds and that's probably one of the stupidest things I've ever heard on this board. The players probably take the losses worse than the fans.

 

To the second statement, I haven't seen or heard any proof of that.

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You guys who question the athlete's heart or passion are out of your minds and that's probably one of the stupidest things I've ever heard on this board. The players probably take the losses worse than the fans.

I have every idea that they take it worse than we do. I also know that I have seen more emotion playing pickup basketball than I see on the bench or on the ice. It's the lack of reaction that kills me. I hate the "We played well enough to win, but just didn't get the results" over and over again. This organization is mentally conditioned to lose ( at least it's fans are).

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