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Trade Deadline Discussion Thread - 3/5 @ 3pm

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The problem with trying to judge JR on deadline deals is that we don't know what deals were there to be had.

 

Clearly JR was hell bent on moving Ruutu for whatever he could get. Also knowing we need a third line center, why not take a shot at a guy who has at least a chance of being that guy. 

 

I have no idea for sure, but my guess is that JR would have moved Ward if the right deal was there, but what JR want for Ward is much more than he is currently worth, so that deal didn't happen.

 

JR tends to play small ball at the deadline, and he did again. 

 

So it will remain to be seen what is done in the offseason. But this team needs key upgrades and unfortunately a complete coaching overhaul. There are not enough excuses or injuries to justify the end result that this group of players produced this year.

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JR totally underperformed today at the deadline, just like his team has done this year ( again and again years ).

Still sitting with a bunch of $4 million to $7+ million a year contracts on folks who are not playing anywhere up to their pay grade ... and JR does nothing to help the situation.    He went thru the process and got no results today ... just like his team does ... stick to the system and lose another game.

Says he must be happy with the team he has on the ice !   Only good news I see from his lack of action today is that we shoud see the entire coaching staff all fired soon.   He wouldn't keep the same players and the same coaches and think the results would be better ... would he ??    And then expect the same season ticket holders to return again next season ??   Not I, Mr. JR .... Not I.   Good by.

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The third round pick is a nice add-on.  Even in 2017. Can't have too many draft picks. :thumbsup:

 

I'll wait and see on Loktionov, hopefully he's a better fit at 3C than Nash or Malholtra.

 

Fins gone Russians in.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Like most here was hoping for some block buster deal, but reality has a way of winning out. And im not sure we had any pieces that teams wanted. Nonetheless we moved some salary and sent a long time player down the road. Would like to see a coaching change before the end of the season now....

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Like most here was hoping for some block buster deal, but reality has a way of winning out. And im not sure we had any pieces that teams wanted. Nonetheless we moved some salary and sent a long time player down the road. Would like to see a coaching change before the end of the season now....

 

I do not see any benefit a coaching change would be at this point in the season.  I would like to see if the team can  play with the same intensity the rest of the season they played last night and how they play in their role as spoilers

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I do not see any benefit a coaching change would be at this point in the season.  I would like to see if the team can  play with the same intensity the rest of the season they played last night and how they play in their role as spoilers

 Insanity = same players same coaches same system .... and expecting better results.   NO change = NO change = No fun for fans. 

Next year ... same thing ???  Not me !

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 Insanity = same players same coaches same system .... and expecting better results.   NO change = NO change = No fun for fans. 

Next year ... same thing ???  Not me !

 

While making the playoffs is not reasonable at this point in the season. I do expect the same intensity in every shift of every remaining game as was displayed last night. But why should things change at this point of the season?  As long as PK. the minority owners, and JR are content with the status quo, why should STH "re-up" for next year?  Not me.

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Reason for a coaching change ASAP is you might as well start preparing for next season now.  When your GF/GA/DIFF is a stinking -21, and you evaluate the under-performing fire-power of this team, Logic says make any change you can now, cause what you have now doesn't cut it..

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following the Canes is like passing a car crash on the highway.......you don't want to watch the carnage, but you can't help but turn your head and look. 

 

LOL!  :thumbsup:

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Well, once again, JR has disappointed with his lack of action.  Trading Ruu was a no-brainer...as much as I really liked him (almost as much as I like Rosey)...but he wasn't living up to his paycheck for the past two years.  Good luck to him in Jersey and Godspeed. 

 

That being said, with all the goalies going around yesterday like they're going out of style, why oh why didn't he offload Cam?  Was he waiting for a first round pick or a big name?  I've got news for you JR, CAM ISN'T WORTH THAT PRICE!!!!  You rode him into the ground without ample backup since Manny Legace left in 2010, and now he's broken.  Send him packing to Calgary before the draft...take a 2nd and 3rd rounder for him, and draft a goalie with your first to back up Q-doba!

 

Finally, please put out a press release that you're retiring...but your last act needs to be to dump Lewis and McLean and get some competent assistants.

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That being said, with all the goalies going around yesterday like they're going out of style, why oh why didn't he offload Cam?  Was he waiting for a first round pick or a big name?  I've got news for you JR, CAM ISN'T WORTH THAT PRICE!!!!  You rode him into the ground without ample backup since Manny Legace left in 2010, and now he's broken.  Send him packing to Calgary before the draft...take a 2nd and 3rd rounder for him, and draft a goalie with your first to back up Q-doba!

 

That contract, though. Nobody was, or is, going to pay us anything for what you readily admit is damaged goods with that contract. The only way we get rid of Ward is a compliance buyout in the offseason.

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It may or may not be time for JR to retire but you cant make a trade when you have no trade partner.  I feel pretty certain that JR worked the phones to the best of his ability in fact I didnt I read somewhere that they held the team plane in CA till the deadline ended at 3pm so JR could be on the phones?

 

The writing is on the wall for Cam right now and barring a catastrophic injury to Khudobin, he'll be moved one way or another this off season when the trade prices are much more reasonable and the new cap is announced.

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I don't blame JR for his inability to move currently "overpriced players" before deadline. Even if anyone in contention wanted Semin for 4 more years at $7,000,000 I doubt they would have the cap space to pick him up now. Notwithstanding my belief that Semin can be an elite talent, he has not been this season, and there were too many players out there with comparable or better production with cap-friendly contracts. Same logic applies to Jordan and Cam.

I am strongly in the corner of those who say fire Mueller now. There are only 3 or 4 players on this team that I would say played to their potential (or even close) this year. The team knows his head is on the chopping block, yet on the West Coast trip completely failed to show up twice (Dallas and Anaheim). Look at what "interim" coach Mo has done at Winnipeg. Would love to get a new "interim" head coach and at least fire one of Lewis or McLean, and see if any (or hopefully all) of our top players start producing to their capabilities. We could find a fit, if not, we know we have to go looking again in the offseason. If the Canes don't fire Mueller, I honestly can't see myself renewing my season tickets. He's shown nothing in 3 years, and unless I am mistaken, he was hired in part b/c it was believed he could improve Mo's Power Play. Hard to believe, but its gotten worse, along with a lot of other things.

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One thing I don't get about hockey is how teams fire a coach and keep all or most of the assistants. Sure if the team had a history of doing well with some assistants, then a new head coach comes in and they falter, maybe, but if the decision is made to remove this coach, the whole lot should go. 

 

Anyway, when to pull that trigger is relative. Is there a guy out there, unemployed and itching to get back into the swing who we really want? If not, no rush, as some guys (particularly assistants on really good teams) won't be available until their team is out of the playoffs.

 

A last ditch run at the playoffs is still technically possible, but I wouldn't rush to hire a guy just to try for that. 

 

One last thing to throw out there...and I might have to hide behind my couch :couch: , this is just a neuron firing off, not a well baked idea, but what about bringing in completely new assistants and keeping Kirk? Kind of an odd move, but it seems to work the other way, keeping the assistants. 

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Promote one assistant to head coach, fire the rest.

 

His name hangs from the rafters and his number was 17.

 

This guy refused to lose, and can still beat the entire team in workouts.  This is the right guy to change the tone permanently.

Edited by hag65

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Fire the coach, I'm sorry, that just makes no sense to me.

 

1st, let me unequivocally state that I'm right there with all of you guys at being at the peak of frustration.As an STH who drives 150+ miles for each game, I can tell you that it gets very old about this time of the year as the inevitable looms closer! Couple that with the interminable off season when there is barely a trickle of Canes information and I about lose my mind.

 

But hear me out. We have a coach who is considered  by many so-called "experts" to be an up and comer. We have suffered thru, if you will, his "break in period", so do we cut him loose when he has learned several lessons, when he might be just getting ready to blossom?

 

2ndly, this coach has had just 2 years, and one of those lockout curtailed, to get his team like he wants. Then, not only was his 1st full season an anomaly by everyone's opinion, it launched  him into his NHL coaching career with barely any chance to get in practice with his "system".

 

Then we get to this season, and he inherits his $9 million star with a serious knee injury that takes a good amount  of the early season to work thru, even if he has yet, and his #1 goal tender with similar problems. As if those 2 hurdles were not enough, his Russian savior has suffered from some type of wrist injury, then is concussed.

 

Finally, as most of us agree, at least 3/4ths of the team has failed to perform as expected.

 

Surely there are bright spots, Doby has preformed brillantly. Manny, my absolute favorite, has schooled several on how to win faceoffs. Sekera has been a true :windfall, as have been Gerbs, Bellemore and Hainsey. Still, this team has rarely been firing on all cylinders.

 

To me, firing Muller now is the equivalent of Russian Roulette(with apologies to Semin, Loki and Doby).. If it is done, don't you just imagine that anyone that is brought in will then insist on tinkering, once again, with the roster? How much will that set us back?

 

No, I opt for now to stay the course, see if in Muller's only 2nd full preseason and season he does not improve things, the reassess.

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KJUN, your comments above really hold water.  IF the issue is the break in period and Muller hasn't found his groove yet, we could be making a large mistake.  I really had not thought of it from your perspective but I can definitely see your argument.  Here is the thing that puzzles the hell out of me.  Since the end of Lavi, we have had the EXACT same issues with our past 3 coaches.  They have all been faced with players that have not been motivated and/or did not play to their abilities, were up and down and mediocre at best.  One game they look like they are unbeatable, next game they look like they couldn't score if they were the only team on the ice.  It is not, IMO, that we do not have talented individuals, we don't seem to have the ability to get the best out of them for some reason.  Is it a lack of leadership in the locker room and on the ice?  JR is the only good common denominator, is he not allowing the coaches to do the things they feel necessary to be successful?  Are the qualities that JR looks for in a coach the issue? Is it just ironic that 3 different coaches do not seem to be able to get different results?  I wish I had the answer, I only have questions.  I guess that's why I am not on the Hurricanes payroll.   Anyway, thanks for the comment, I like your thought process even though it would be nice to have a head for the trophy wall at this point.

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allboys, Thanks for your reply. As an addendum to my thoughts, could another factor to the "the exact same issues with our last 3 coaches" be rooted in the fact that we are such a known "low budget team"? Thus, the real Common Denominator is the failure to finance those players that a specific coach needs to operate his system. After all, when a coach is fired, doesn't he leave behind sort of "lame duck" players, that the succeding coach has to assimilate into his system. If there is financial constraint on the GM, he then is unable to make the changes called for by the new guy.

 

Undoubtly seasoned coaches are better able to work with more variables, whereas those like our Muller possibly lack the experience to tinker with their own system.

 

Just my opinion, I don't know either, but I still say that offing this coach may be premature.

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Fire the coach, I'm sorry, that just makes no sense to me....

It does to me.

 

Muller arrived as being big on accountability.  With shift lengths too long (Eric does whatever he wants), and Skinner doing whatever he pleases without playing defense, there has not been accountability.  Maybe Boychuk being sent down after a defensive lapse last year was accountability - big fridgen deal!

 

His matchups at crunch time vs opposing lines and failed Power Play (no need to elaborate) are poor indicators of stewardship. His one sided view of positives without mentioning failures is a failed strategy.  You succeed through failure and corrective action.

 

If we point to the last 3 coaches and no change then fire him anyway.  What you're saying is it doesn't matter who coaches with 3 identical results, so what the heck, try again since there is no downside.

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Well of the three previous coaches, one won a cup and the other made it to the Eastern conference finals. But none have had a better team than this other than the cup team.

This team should not have almost the worst power play in the league and one of the worst penalty kills. This team should not be in the bottom 1/3

There is just too much talent here for that level of performance.

Something has to give

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Hedican said during the San Jose game between periods with John and Tripp something like the best way to get the most out of a coach and team  was if there were levels of enforcement of the system throughout the team's leaders and Captain. Accountability. I wonder if I can find the whole quote. It basically shouted out Eric isn't doing a great job as captain to me from Bret Hedican.

 

Teams that are truly successful have great leaders that usually happen to be their stars. Top-6 Forwards or top pairing D-men, players that get a lot of ice-time. Players that produce generally. Eric gets the ice-time, plays first line since 06-07, produces generally at a PPG pace. This season Eric hasn't really been as good as he usually is, but he did have a knee injury so he should get some slack. And the team's number two, Semin, had a wrist injury and then got concussed. Tlusty had to try to be the glue and get those guys back on track, but he's only just broken out.

 

But there is where I see a problem. It's great to let a young player earn a big spot on your lineup. Look at Lindholm lately. But where other teams normally have established veterans who rarely make mistakes and have much more intangibles gained through experience, we try to plug players in to play up. Not necessarily younger guys, but guys like LaRose, Gerbe, Jeff Hamilton, Bowman, Dwyer.  Guys that should strictly be bottom-6 unless injury/emergency.

 

And if you are going to have to play those players up, then the guys like Eric, Semin, Jordan, Skinner, the semi-strict top-6 forwards need to be those "veterans" that don't make mistakes when mistakes cost games. Eric has been terrible with that especially in regards to PIMs. So since our core guys can't be that player for the team, emanate leadership, then we need to get a top-6 who will. It could bleed into our core and we would at least see some on-ice success again.

 

The fact they are capable of playing up is good, but the fact that they have to play up is bad. I think we are one top-6 veteran away from being a more complete and competitive team. We also could use a bona fide top pairing Dman, but Sekera seems to be developing into that. He earned the chance to be it next season. Faulk needs to continue to develop, he's still so young, but maybe dialing back his ice time a bit would help him avoid injuries, create a pairing anchored on Sekera and a pairing anchored on Faulk. They played well together but they also tend to miscommunicate or break down sometimes and for stretches of games as well.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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