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Trade Deadline Discussion Thread - 3/5 @ 3pm

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I didn't say Can Chantel, fans are what's important, correct? The on ice product is bad. Evidence of the this is a disinterest in the team, evident by very little fan support or interaction on this page. Tripp just makes it more difficult to watch the team because of incessant cheerleading of what's good but avoiding the real issues and calling the facts the facts. Ok, so delete my post about Tripp, but the rest is all about the team. Little fan participation, is valid, calling out a bad team is valid, blaming Rutherford,, well he created the team didn't he. If you want all fluff then delete all of my post. If you want dialogue, then let's talk. If there were more people reading this I'd venture to say they agree with everything I've said. If they don't, this is America, we all have an opinion. My agenda is that if I'm going to pay to see a product, I'm gonna have an opinion, and I'm gonna express that opinion. If we live in Russia then delete me.

 

Valid points. I might of over reacted. Sorry. We are all frustrated and looking for answers and someone to blame. Of course JR has to share the blame but IMO it would be foolish for him to step down until the end of the season. That is unless we want to have a full blown fire sale. I don't. I think we make the moves we can now and make more in the off season. The organization needs to take a good look at itself from top to bottom but especially the on ice talent.

 

I do agree its a mess and with no easy answers. Canes fans IMO have always been loyal and have even supported this team in bad times. But I think we have had enough. One thing IMO we demand is at least the effort and not just lip service.

 

We will survive this but It sure feels dim right now.

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I agree, it looks dim. I'll end my rant today with this.;

Dear Eric Staal, congratulations on your career, your gold medal at the Olympics, your Stanley Cup, your wonderful financial compensation, and I wish you continued success in hockey, family, and everything you do! You'll have to forgive me though, just a little advice if I may, because your the CAPTAIN, I specifically address you. You've achieved more than most in hockey will ever dream of and maybe you should consider moving on as it doesn't seem you have the discipline to lead your team as a commander or captain or role model should. You see, captains don't cry, they don't blame, they don't moan, they don't look back at the ref and ask if he's blind! He's the ref, of course he's not blind! Captains DO...that's it! They DO. They do what there told by the leader or coach and don't ask questions, they show the team how to DO! They lead by example. They teach guys like Lindholm how to win, (like Francis taught you) They give maximum effort 100% of the time. If you want to retire then retire, if you want to be captain then act like it and regain the respect of many including your piers. Joe

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OK, but Manny certainly did not earn the "A" . Very quick decision for someone who did not prove his performance over a period of time. I agree that the same thing equates to Jordan. If it was based on this years performance, I still vote for Sekera in 2014-2015, if we still have him after the fire sale. Can't count on it with our current GM.

 

 

I agree 100% that Manny never should of gotten the "A". My vote was for Sekera who has been the most consistent player on the team. Manny received the "A" as it was a good story of a player that never gave up due to injury, got a few quick goals and became a fan favorite due to his desire. A marketing ploy by the organization and a "feel good" choice for the fans. Certainly he did not have a long sustained performance history with the Canes to deserve the "A". I wouldn't mind Sekera getting the "C" next year.

 

Sorry, I've got to disagree with you.  There have been several articles chronicling examples of Malhotra's leadership since he joined the organization (both with the Checkers and the Canes) that earned him the "A" as far as what I'm looking for in a captain.  Some has been off ice, some on ice (especially working with some of the younger Canes).

 

Now if you're talking about giving a letter based solely on being one of the best players on the team, I'd agree with you that Manny isn't it.  But that's not how I want to pick my captains.

Edited by LakeLivin

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I really hope there is a GM our there that will take a shot at Ward before the deadline. Offer something nice. 

 

We need to lock Khudini down.

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Blow the team up.

 

Untouchables: Faulk, Sekera, Dobby, Skinner, Lindholm

Absolutely needs to go: Harrison, Komisarek, Manny, Nash, Ruutu, Tlusty, Liles, Bellemore

 

Everyone else is on the block but should be moved based upon return. This means we most likely won't move the Staals, and we'll likely keep Bowman and Dwyer as depth players in Charlotte, but I'd expect everyone else to be gone starting with Cam.

 

We're in a weird spot where we can't do what Buffalo started to do before whatshisface decided to leave and rebuild, since we have the Staals, Semin and Sekera in their primes and proven young players like Faulk and Skinner, so it's either we change course completely and move everyone and actually go through with rebuilding or we trade who we can for picks to set us up for the future, have JR step down and bring in a competent GM who can make the moves that'll turn us into a playoff team again.

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Sorry, I've got to disagree with you.  There have been several articles chronicling examples of Malhotra's leadership since he joined the organization (both with the Checkers and the Canes) that earned him the "A" as far as what I'm looking for in a captain.  Some has been off ice, some on ice (especially working with some of the younger Canes).

 

Now if you're talking about giving a letter based solely on being one of the best players on the team, I'd agree with you that Manny isn't it.  But that's not how I want to pick my captains.

It's OK to disagree. Manny is a class act and has a lot of qualities. I'm just looking for more in an "A" or "C".  A little above .20 ppg  and 13.00 mins of ice time isn't what I'm looking for in a Captain. My captains would lead by performance. The qualities you mention in Manny are accurate but also sound more like a coach. Perhaps Manny will get into coaching when he retires. The "A' s will be wide open next year after the semi fire sale.

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I think it's safe to say that we are all frustrated and angry about this season's outcome. And I don't think most of us saw this coming. I'm not upset with JR... I still think he did a great job of putting a team together that LOOKED like it could make the playoffs. Honestly, a couple of people might have said "this team isn't going to make the playoffs" but most of us thought we'd be in the mix. Before I get flamed... these are just my opinions.

 

Players who are NOT moving, under any circumstances: Staal's, Skinner, Faulk, Murphy, Sekera, Lindholm

 

Players that will (potentially) bring you the most value in return (not counting the above) IN ORDER of their value: Ward, Ruutu, Hainsey, Tlusty, Liles,

 

Players that could be traded to fill small voids in other teams' lineups: Pretty much everyone else.

 

As for my personal beliefs on who JR should TRY to move: Tlusty, one really good season is all The Canes have gotten out of him. Rutuu, as long as he brings a healthy return. Harrison, because you can get another one. Komi, because he doesn't play and is a good teammate, give him the opportunity to play some meaningful games. Peters, because he's going to go anyway. Liles, because frankly the only thing he does REALLY well is skate. And.... Cam Ward. And I say this as a Ward fan. Perhaps he would be better served on another team. I still don't believe JR WILL trade him, for reasons I've mention before (the salary cap being the biggest). But if the right offer came up, I believe JR would have to pull the trigger. Obviously JR is going to trade two goalies... so it would be either Ward OR Peters.

 

As for A's.... In the duration of a hockey game. The A's only dictate who can talk to the refs more... It has no bearing on who is an actual leader on the ice. What's the quote? "He took away the C, not what's underneath." True leaders always emerge no matter what letter is on the front of the uniform.

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Firesale time! I suggest anyone who has not read Adam Gold's article on WRAL.com read it. Paints a bleak picture for the immediate future. To boil it down, he says we have big $$ invested in too many underperforming players. 2 Staals, Semin, Ward head the list. Also says not a lot of Tradeable assets in the cupboard right now, and our "big-name" players are too overpaid to trade.

Wonder if PK has the $$ and willingness to use compliance buyouts on one or two of these contracts? Next 3 days will be interesting.

Someone please tell Adam Gold to retire... or ignore hockey and continue following basketball... AG has always been.. how do I say this nicely?.. Uninformative about hockey.

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It comes down to the factor that we have to overpay for talent to stay here. We dont have the tradition or likelihood to be title contenders to get guys to sign when competing with teams. Some of blame is on JR for overvaluing guys like the Staals and Ruutu but, it is also on the franchise as well. We have to make the big moves to attract other big names but the team hasnt been able to put it all together to make us attractive. Unfortunately, we dont have the system to build the young guys to sustain the roster. So we are damned if you do, damned if you dont on the roster moves. We will be stuck in this cycle for many years with contracts from Semin and especially J Staal.

Ummmm.. no. The deal Jordan Staal got from Rutherford is EXACTLY the same deal he turned down in Pittsburgh,

 

First, Ward would only be traded, wether now or offseason IF Khudini agrees to sign and signs. 

 

Second, great point TSA about the goalies coming off the market. This very well could open the door for one of our goalies to go out it. I am still thinking Ward for the simple reason that he can bring return at least in theory, and especially w/ Miller off the market.

 

Third, I agree this team has moved past picking up a rental. Any move now should be one that will improve the team in the future as well as this year. With more buyers than sellers, the price of rentals is going to be high. At least at the moment.

 

Still, it is a time when JR could move a piece someone might want to pick up a piece that we want (not a rental, but a signed player). The problem is outside of Ruutu (NTC) and Ward, who would fetch return that we are looking for.

 

As to moving the Staals....that would be blowing it up alright. Just exactly who would be our trading partner? Just clearing cap space does not make a team. There are precious few good FA's and we aren't exactly their view of paradise. 

 

Say what you will, but we are still pretty strong down the middle up front. 

 

I will say this. It would not be unreasonable for JR to sit the Staals down and say look, we have invested the house in you two. We want you to be together for a long time. But for that to happen we must make the playoffs......then if there was the right deal, move one, but while I know this is getting harder to defend, but I still don't think the play of Eric and Jordan is the problem outside of the fact that E. has been a constant on a terrible PP for years. 

 

Jordan needs to put up more points. But, he plays often with Dwyer and Gerbe, solid third line wingers frankly as far as scoring. He is put up against the top centers (and wingers) in the league every night, and despite not getting a ton of points himself or from his wings, he is -3.  He is shutting down the top lines on the other side. Not sure that's the problem.

 

Look, we all feel Eric can put up more points, but he is still our top scorer, and his plus minus has improved dramatically as the year has gone on. If you trade him you better get a top line center back. But who is looking to trade their #1 center?

 

 

It's just not that easy to blow it up. Could get a new GM. A new coach. Try to find a couple more key vets in the Scotty Walker mold. Put a few more key pieces on the build. Linholm and Murphy will both be stepping up very soon. I'm for those kind of moves. 

 

But blow the whole thing up and start over? Call me in a few years if you do that.

Good post... can't say anything more than... I agree.

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Trade Tweets..thanks Chip

 

Chip Alexander @ice_chip 2h

Rutherford said there have been many trade calls in past week from GMs but did not say which Canes players have drawn most interest.

 

Rutherford said discussions on new contract for Khudobin are underway but not sure if can be resolved by Wednesday trade deadline.

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Clean house ... including the coaching staff and Chantal.

Anybody with a $4million contract or more should go.

NONE are playing anywhere near their value.

This is a piss ant hockey market.  Dumping on Chantal is lame.  She's a young women learning her craft and doing a decent job.  

Trade Tweets..thanks Chip

We're stuck with Ward.  No-one wants a goalie with no mojo.  06 is ancient history and irrelevant at this point.

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Dump Eric.  He disappears for too many long stretched during the season. When he's on he's very good.  It just doesnt happen consistently and the young guys probably don't connect with him. 

 

Dump Jordon.  He is little more than a 3rd line center capable of chipping in 10-14 goals a season.  Don't need to pay a player like that more than 2m a year and he's making 6.  He is a joke. 

 

Dump JR.  He is more a loser than winner.  5th straight losing season counting this one.  He can't see the trees for the forest he has been here so long. He has lost his objectivity.

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Was JR blowing smoke?  Is there any player on the Canes' current roster that would be so desired in a trade  a GM would be willing to give up valued assets?

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Was JR blowing smoke?  Is there any player on the Canes' current roster that would be so desired in a trade  a GM would be willing to give up valued assets?

 

I would say Hainsey, Sekera, Dwyer, Rutuu and the always popular Skinner. Not suggesting we move them only if I'm a GM and need to add to defense I would consider Hainsey and Sekera. If I'm a GM and need a hard working 3rd or 4th liner to help become tougher to play against I would consider Dwyer, If I'm a GM that needs a tough 2nd line player with a scoring punch I add Ruutu and if I need to add some creativity and scoring with an eye to the future I consider Skinner.

 

I have no idea what the return will be but suspect only Skinner would bring a fair return.

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Raven, I'm no fan of Adam Gold, but if this year's production is what we have to look forward to from our "stars", where is the fault with his logic? My take is this team has talented players who could be the nucleus of a good team, but lack heart and seem satisfied to accept mediocrity or losing. The team needs a culture change, including for sure bringing in new blood. I'm all for taking the C from Eric. Would Sekera be in the running? Don't know about his leadership skills, but he seems to be our most consistent everyday player. And yes I think Manny deserves the A without regard to his ice time. I seem to recall another 4th line center that wore a A for us: Kevyn Adams in '06.

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Raven, I'm no fan of Adam Gold, but if this year's production is what we have to look forward to from our "stars", where is the fault with his logic? My take is this team has talented players who could be the nucleus of a good team, but lack heart and seem satisfied to accept mediocrity or losing. The team needs a culture change, including for sure bringing in new blood. I'm all for taking the C from Eric. Would Sekera be in the running? Don't know about his leadership skills, but he seems to be our most consistent everyday player. And yes I think Manny deserves the A without regard to his ice time. I seem to recall another 4th line center that wore a A for us: Kevyn Adams in '06.

My problem is... Adam Gold states the obvious in this little "article". Everyone on earth can see our "stars" aren't performing. In no way should Eric Staal be stripped of his captaincy... He's still the best player on the team... but I forgot we measure greatness by how many points you put up. If he's stripped of his captaincy, he may as well be traded... that's the message that it would send. In my opinion, it would be idiotic.

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Eric needs that C removed pronto.. That is why I say bring in a new coach and make it clear the past is the past. Everyone earns C/A/Ice time from here on out..This team needs to limit its players from access to the GM, one boss and he should have the authority to hurt feelings when needed.. Time to toss all credibility chips in the trash, 06/09/last yr does not matter anymore... As for Chantel, no doubt she is the most improved person in the entire Canes organization.. Wish the players gave the effort she has....

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Luke Decock calls out the Canes:

 

"With the NHL’s trade deadline arriving at 3 p.m. Wednesday, there’s no reason for the Hurricanes not to listen to any reasonable offer for anyone, including all three goalies and both Staal brothers. It’s time to start over, at least to the extent possible at this time of year.

Whether Jim Rutherford remains general manager after this season or not – and surely owner Peter Karmanos must realistically assess whether Rutherford is still the right man for this job – he is still in charge at the deadline, and his mandate must be to best prepare the ground for the future.

The good news for Hurricanes fans is that while Rutherford has tied the Hurricanes to a bloated, underperforming roster full of long-term contracts (Exhibit A: Alexander Semin) and no-trade clauses (Exhibit B: Tuomo Ruutu), he can still swap horses with the best of them at times (Exhibit C: Jamie McBain and a draft pick for Andrej Sekera).

So let’s see what he can get for Jeff Skinner. Let’s see what he can get for Cam Ward. Let’s see what he can get for Ron Hainsey. Let’s see what he can get for Jiri Tlusty. Let’s see what he can get for Semin. Let’s see what he can get for Ruutu. Let’s see what he can get for Anton Khudobin, if he doesn’t sign an extension.

Other than Justin Faulk and Elias Lindholm, is there really anyone who’s truly irreplaceable? No, there isn’t, and that includes the previously untouchable Eric and Jordan Staal, because building around them hasn’t worked yet.
"

 

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/03/03/3671000/decock-at-deadline-no-reason-for.html

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Well it's one thing for those of us on here to say it. But quite another for Luke to print it in the paper.

 

Funny because I was going to post the idea that this pre deadline time might be JR's last chance to shape the team. 

 

As someone who wrote a fairly long piece at the start of the season about why this team should be good, and still feels on paper that it should. I can't disagree with any of it. 

 

My only concern is return. If we move, especially Eric or Skinner, there must be return of a "like" player, or we will go from bad to worse. We cannot just compile so so players and draft picks. 

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The problem isn't necessarily trying to build around the Staals, the problem, well two things, first is JR has been trying, very unsuccessfully, to recreate the 2006 team.  Our blueline has next to no grit.  The big emphasis last summer was "to make our defense tougher to play against."  Well, i think, while our defense was improved over last season, i don't think we accomplished that statement at all.  No physical player back there except one.  And it just baffles me the fact Komisarek has only played half the season.  To me, the only dmen who should be penciled in next season is Sekera and Faulk.  Which leads me to my next point.

 

Too many years, players have been penciled into the line up.  Too many bargain players, and too top heavy.  Too much inconsistency.  Carolina has not had a complete team since 2009.  We're either missing a 2nd line center, or a 3rd line center, or a top 6 forward, or a bottom 6 forward, or a linemate for Eric.  We've lacked veterans.  You see the jolt the hurricanes got immediately when Manny started playing.  We made marginal moves in the offseason.  JR went in with the mentality of the main reason our team didn't perform well last year was the blueline and injuries, instead of saying, "this team is always suffering injuries and proving it can't overcome those injuries, and maybe my plan for our blueline isn't working, so let's try a different approach."

 

Going forward, if I were the hurricanes, i would:

 

1. Admit defeat on Cam Ward.  We all love Cam.  I've met him many times, and i've met dozens of professional athletes in NBA, NHL, NFL, and Cam and Ruutu are the nicest ones i've ever met.  But kind of like the Gleason situation, his time is up here.  I, like the rest of you, don't know what's going on behind the scenes, so i don't know what the market is for him.  But i'd get anything i can for him.  Maybe him to the Oilers for one of their forwards or something, but he and his entire contract have to go.  I've come to grips with the fact we won't use a compliance buyout with him.

 

2. Admit defeat on Tuomo Ruutu.  See the first 3 or 4 sentences on Cam.  Depending on what happens today and tomorrow, he will/should be our 1st compliance buyout.

 

3.  I'd say before the next round of free agency begins, we could/should trade at ONE of our forwards that make over $5mil.  And unfortunately, it's a game of numbers, and if i had a choice, it would probably be Jordan.  I would either get another 2nd line center, or a top 2 dmen.  Thinking Jordan/Kesler swap, Jordan/Webber swap, or something along those lines.

 

4.  I would, under no circumstance short of a trade for crosby/malkin/ovechkin/giroux, trade away our 1st round pick.  We have a history of doing it, so i just want my opinion to be documented before draft time happens.

 

5.  I would at least listen to offers on everybody, not act obviously.  We've seen it too many times where bubble teams do too much too soon, and the next thing you know, they're bottom of the barrel.  Florida and Buffalo were both playoff teams not that long ago, i DO NOT want to be lumped in with those jokers.

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Honestly I wouldn't mind at all being in Buffalo's position right now.  They've made a complete organizational shift, from top to bottom.

 

Murray has compiled 10 picks in the first 2 rounds of the next 2 drafts.  Frigging 10.  And that could jump to 13 if they continue to trade out additional players like Moulson.  And if memory serves, they had 2 first round picks in 2013 and at least 3 in the second round.

 

JR should take note that building a team through the draft and developing players through your minor league affiliate shouldn't be such a low priority, given we have the smallest scouting staff in the league and a black hole in Charlotte ("the place where prospects go to die" - Mike Murphy 2013).

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I wonder what kind of package we could get from Edmonton for Eric Staal?  If Kesler is worth and young established player, a top prospect, and a draft pick,  Eric should be worth a randsome.  The Oilers want to add veterans and win now so it might be a perfect fit.  I wonder if we could get something like RNH, Nurse, and a 1st?  I would take that in a minute!

 

If we trade one Staal and keep one Staal, we should keep Jordan.  He is still very young, he is very versitile, and Eric would probably bring a better return.

 

I really think we should blow this thing up and start fresh (including coach and GM).  Trade everybody we can for draft picks and prospects.  We will probably stink next year, but next year is a good year for that.  http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=160293

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Honestly I wouldn't mind at all being in Buffalo's position right now.  They've made a complete organizational shift, from top to bottom.

 

Murray has compiled 10 picks in the first 2 rounds of the next 2 drafts.  Frigging 10.  And that could jump to 13 if they continue to trade out additional players like Moulson.  And if memory serves, they had 2 first round picks in 2013 and at least 3 in the second round.

 

JR should take note that building a team through the draft and developing players through your minor league affiliate shouldn't be such a low priority, given we have the smallest scouting staff in the league and a black hole in Charlotte ("the place where prospects go to die" - Mike Murphy 2013).

 

They are compiling a monster defense right now.  I think they are in a great position and they are likely to have two really high draft picks again this year.  The Islanders have to give them thier 1st this year or next and I would think they would give up this one instead of risking loosing a chance at McDavid next year.

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I'm not ready to blow the team up. We should definitely try to make a couple of big shake up type moves where anyone is fair game, but I don't know if it's worth wiping the slate clean just yet. I would definitely consider a new coach, I don't know who is available but I'd even take Lavi back at this point, at least that guy shows some emotion. I'm torn on getting a new GM. I don't necessarily feel like JR is a bad GM, but I think he's too patient. I think the entire organization is too patient. Muller is patient, the assistant coaches are patient. You need someone in there who is willing to act earlier and be aggressive.

 

I also think Muller should run Cam Ward as much as possible for the remainder of the season for several reasons:

 

He's our only goalie under contract for next year and he desperately needs the work. If we end up having to go with Ward next season, he needs to get back in the game and figure it out sooner rather than later. If he doesn't figure it out, at least it helps improves our draft pick and we'll know for sure that we need to make a goalie move this summer. We still don't have Khudobin signed, and he probably won't sign unless we give him a reason to believe he can be the number 1 next season. If we're not willing to give him the shot, someone else will. So you really need to know where Cam Ward is, because if Cam continues to go down hill then you can tell Anton he's definitely the guy and we'll buy Cam out, or trade him for cheap to make it happen. At the same time, Cam could get his head back in the game and prove he's still capable, which would most likely push Anton away (which is pretty much the same as him not being signed anyway, but at least we could have some confidence back in Wardo). 

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