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is anyone else slightly burned up that Justin Williams just won the CS award for Playoff MVP. I think its great for him and have always liked him as a player, was annoyed when they got rid of him. Just goes to show that once players leave here and are put in the roles they should be in great things happen.

I hope with JR gone we can start to move on from all the culmination of bad choices that have been made over the years to bury us.

I'm really really not trying to pick on you, but in general, these kind of conversations are getting old. The reason he was traded to begin with was because he couldn't stay healthy, and we were a borderline playoff team that needed more scoring power. Hindsight is always 20/20. There have been multiple instances where guys struggle with other teams but play well here. That's sports.

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is anyone else slightly burned up that Justin Williams just won the CS award for Playoff MVP. I think its great for him and have always liked him as a player, was annoyed when they got rid of him. Just goes to show that once players leave here and are put in the roles they should be in great things happen.

 

I hope with JR gone we can start to move on from all the culmination of bad choices that have been made over the years to bury us.  

 

In 07-08 Williams played in 37 games.  In 08/09, Williams had played in 32 games at the trade deadline and had a broken leg.  At that time, it looked like JW was just one of those players that was going to be snakebit by injury.  JR made a move that basically turned into JWillie in a 3 way deal for ECole and Cole helped the team make it to the ECF's.  There was also great joy that JR was able to move on from paying a player that couldn't stay on the ice.

 

At the time, the trade worked.  If JR had managed Cole's contract a little better, he could have honestly gotten a lot more mileage out of the deal.  I still think hanging the "A" on Sutter while ignoring Cole's leadership played a big part in him testing the UFA waters.  I am happy that JWillie found a home and has excelled.  I do think that it shows that a GM has to really look at the long term when making moves, but you can't really argue with trading a player with a broken leg for one that helps you get to the ECF's.  Most any GM in the league is going to take that.

 

Another way to look at how players have moved on and excelled.  When players leave and fall off the face of the NHL, that tells me that those guys had no business in an NHL uniform to begin with.  There have been many more that fell in that category that left the Canes.

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In 07-08 Williams played in 37 games.  In 08/09, Williams had played in 32 games at the trade deadline and had a broken leg.  At that time, it looked like JW was just one of those players that was going to be snakebit by injury.  JR made a move that basically turned into JWillie in a 3 way deal for ECole and Cole helped the team make it to the ECF's.  There was also great joy that JR was able to move on from paying a player that couldn't stay on the ice.

 

At the time, the trade worked.  If JR had managed Cole's contract a little better, he could have honestly gotten a lot more mileage out of the deal.  I still think hanging the "A" on Sutter while ignoring Cole's leadership played a big part in him testing the UFA waters.  I am happy that JWillie found a home and has excelled.  I do think that it shows that a GM has to really look at the long term when making moves, but you can't really argue with trading a player with a broken leg for one that helps you get to the ECF's.  Most any GM in the league is going to take that.

 

Another way to look at how players have moved on and excelled.  When players leave and fall off the face of the NHL, that tells me that those guys had no business in an NHL uniform to begin with.  There have been many more that fell in that category that left the Canes.

So what is our excuse with keeping Pitkanen for so long and Cam Ward. I guess my point is we take players misuse them put them in harms way ala Skinner or a williams and then once a player is out of here they excell. Look at Craig Adams, Andrew Ladd, Manny Legace ( When playing for DET.), Brendan Shanahan, Brandon Sutter, Jussi, Justin Williams, Ray Whitney etc etc. We have brought in good talents here and they have died see J. Staal and many others. Just frustrating when players who used to be on this team and died here get traded and excell under better leadership. JR loved this team so much he absolutely destroyed it for years with awful contracts, shotty talent and pissed off fans, then goes to a rival team hires JK and basically says f you to this organization, heard he will sell his stake in the team. Thats why I am heated Ronnie has a serious mess on his.

 

I'm really really not trying to pick on you, but in general, these kind of conversations are getting old. The reason he was traded to begin with was because he couldn't stay healthy, and we were a borderline playoff team that needed more scoring power. Hindsight is always 20/20. There have been multiple instances where guys struggle with other teams but play well here. That's sports.

Of course that is sports just seems to be pretty frequent around these parts. Please name an example of players who have been traded and excelled here I bet it is a short short list.

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So your mad that we moved Williams rather then wait and hope for him to return to form however your also mad about us keeping Cam and Joni around.

 

You ask what the excuse is, I don't think theres an excuse I think you pointed out the best example possible to say why we kept Joni around as long as we did and keep with Cam. We just watched one of our injury plagued players win the Conn Smythe.

 

Joni when he's on his game is a very good player. However the two best year's he was having with us turned into injuries and thus most fans forget what he was doing prior to those injuries. The man was on a mission that 48 game season he was playing his best defense we'd ever seen and still chipping into the offense. Such a waste for him to have that accident happen, it's not like JR put a trip wire on the ice to make it happen.

Edited by legend-1

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I will agree that we've misused some guys. But I think SD put it pretty well on the JWillie deal. The guy had on different occasions blown out both knees, an achilles and had just broken his wrist. And if JR had just paid Cole $.5 million more he could have had him for 4 more years. Personally, I think letting Cole walk was a bigger mistake on it's face. Cole and Skinner had mad chemistry, and it's hard for Skinner to find that with anyone. 

 

Gleason played some good years here, and was on balance a pretty good trade since Jack Johnson flat out snubbed us. Sekera is looking pretty good right about now. Whitney, the guy turned out to be superhuman in the non aging department, but don't forget we got him, J Willy, Brind'Amour, Stillman, Cullen, et. all in the first place. Joni was actually mostly an example to the positive as he played and would still be playing if not for the injury, which was kind of the fear for J Willy in the first place..

 

Again, not a trade but a money, FA thing, we could have just kept He Who Shall Not be Named: Matt Cullen. Oh I did it.

 

The there was Tlusty for....wait...let me google it....Ryan Philippee..no wait...Johny Paradise, no that's' not it...Philippe Paradis who at least is still playing...having put up 15 points last year....for Syracuse Crunch. Sounds like a breakfast cereal. But that's a big step up because the year before he was in the ECHL putting up zero points for the Toledo Walleye. Just love those names.

 

Yes Muller screwed the pooch with handling Jussi, but getting him in the first place was a master stroke.

 

I was really liking Lotkonov and hopefully Khudini keeps things rolling. If Jordan Staal hits is stride that could still be major. 

 

Ladd turned into Ruutu. For a while, that was not terrible, but on balance, yes that one went the other way.

 

 

So, yes, it does sting a bit seeing J Willy kill it and wrap up his third cup, but that one is the ultimate hind site is 20-20. There was just as good of a chance that a la Pitkanen, Justin would have been injured right out of the league years ago. Good for him he wasn't. 

 

To me, letting key FAs walk over money has been bigger. Cole, Cullen and Seidenberg jump out at me off the top of my head.

Edited by remkin

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Painful, but excellent discussion.  Over the next few years it will be interesting to see what RF and JR do with their respective teams.  Of course, the purses may be different...

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To me, so much of the bad moves have come as a result of hammering the square peg into the round hole, and then dumping the square peg for not being a round peg when it has been devalued

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I don't think the Cole thing was money, remkin.  I remember it being a disagreement on contract length

over that 4th year.  Which was actually a (relatively rare) good call by Rutherford.  Still, I get your point.

 

You think losing a guy to free agency is a wasted asset.  Seidenberg is a better example of this than

Cole or Cullen.  Cullen was one of JR's "squirrel" moves.  He let him walk, (very) quickly decided he

couldn't live without him,  reaquired him, then traded him again 2 years later.  Same with Cole, except

in reverse, which incorporated Williams into this whole cluster****

 

True, I believe you are right about the Cole deal. It was more money by a little, but the extra year, and to make it even worse a NTC that Montreal gave him. But he was clicking, like career prime type clicking with Skinner. I know that many here worried about the 4th year, and the NTC, which is fair. Just like I worried about Whitney getting old (which turned out not to be an issue).  Cole did have a really good year his first year in MTL, but after that has not produced to his contract so on balance it was a good move. On the other hand this team really missed 2011-2012 Cole the next year, and after. 

 

Seidenberg is a better example. Guys who were essentially let go for nothing after falling off would include Jokinen also. 

 

But looking back maybe there've been fewer than I thought. I have always wondered what happened w/ Whitney. The guy had a NTC and I've always thought he blocked a trade. But even thought he was getting long in the tooth, we ended up getting nothing for a guy who went on to put up serious points.

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There are times that you are going to lose a player through free agency, and there is nothing that can be done about that.  You can't be a seller every year at the deadline, because it sends the wrong message to the team and fans.  I do think that JR should have been more active  as a seller at times, but he kept hanging onto the faintest of hopes.

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Snotty shanny   played one year in Hartford, and left, didnt like it  there...I believe im right

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It's deeper than that. Through years drafting small offensive dmen and smaller finesse forwards has really hurt this team. On top of not being able to develop talent leads to train wreck seasons. I blame the drafting of the past 10 years for our total lack of success.

On the plus side if we keep getting first round picks in the top 10 we will eventually be good. See Pitt and the Hawks as an example. But then there is FLA and EDM. So yeah....

Edited by bluedevil58

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 But then there is FLA and EDM

 

 

looks as if the Kitty Kats have rermoved the message board from their offical NHL site

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I know it's Eklund, but what else do we have to discuss?

 

Cam Ward+ for Marleau +

I am tracking a hot rumor on this hot day that the Carolina Hurricanes and San Jose Sharks are in heavy talks regarding a trade that would send Cam Ward and two prospects to the Sharks for Patrick Marleau and a pick in NEXT year's draft...more to come for sure.

 

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As long as McGinn and Tolchinsky aren't involved as the prospects in the deal, I'd do that deal with no hesitation. 

 

Marleau - E Staal - Semin

Skinner - J Staal - Lindholm

 

Yes, please.

Edited by TheFaulker

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What are the odds Eklund got it right? Yet it is a deal I could see both teams wanting. Marleau would fill a need but would cost us more then Ward and for an addtional year. Perhaps one of the prospects are one of our young sometimes roster players making the swap a little more money neutral. The Sharks would be taking a chance on Ward so I expect one of the prospects would be a good one.

 

Depending on the prospects shipped I would make that deal. I think another deal would follow

 

Marleau-E Staal-

Tlusty-J Staal- Semin

Skinner-Nash-Lindholm

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It's funny, because I was going to suggest a cam for havlat deal. San Jose is my number 2 team, and I know they wanted to get a younger goalie this offseason, and most of the ufa goalies are well in their 30's. As long as it doesn't include Lindholm, I'm good with it. It may be a false rumor, but I'm liking it so far.

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I know it's Eklund, but what else do we have to discuss?

 

Cam Ward+ for Marleau +

I am tracking a hot rumor on this hot day that the Carolina Hurricanes and San Jose Sharks are in heavy talks regarding a trade that would send Cam Ward and two prospects to the Sharks for Patrick Marleau and a pick in NEXT year's draft...more to come for sure.

 

Moneywise, it's almost a dollar for dollar swap.  On the downside, it would mean the Sharks would have 9.3 million tied up in goaltending, two guys would have to waive their NTCs, and we're short on good prospects anyways.

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Well the word of course is San Jose needs to make major changes. I guess Marleau has benefited from big Joe feeding him, but his numbers are incredible. I just wonder if Ward has the value to bring a guy like Marleau here even if we through in prospects. Maybe Tlusty on a sign and trade plus someone...?

 

I would vastly prefer not to give up McGinn and clearly Lindholm is off the table, but are you kidding me?

 

This guy put ups 70 points last year, almost always plays a near full season, and produced a decent clip in the playoffs. The only downside I can see is that he's getting semi long in the tooth, but has not shown signs of letting up yet. 

 

I would make that deal in a heartbeat, probably even if it were McGinn (say it aint so) going the other way. Instant offense. Instant huge upgrade top 6. Staal, Staal, Semin, Skinner, Marleu,Tlusty?, Lindholm, Gerbe, key FA. I know I was burned by believing in something like this last year, but really, that is a pretty decent top 9. 

 

Frankly, pinch me. Which is why I'm doubtful. What else do they want?....

 

 

And of course.......it's Eklund.

Edited by remkin

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The latest thing I had heard about was Marchard for Marleau, but that was last week.

NHL Network showed a list of the TOP 5 FA Goalies.

1. Miller

2. Hiller

3. Broduer

4. Thomas

5. Staylock

 

I don't think Cam will get moved until the FA goalies are tied up.

Edited by hopper915

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The latest thing I had heard about was Marchard for Marleau, but that was last week.

NHL Network showed a list of the TOP 5 FA Goalies.

1. Miller

2. Hiller

3. Broduer

4. Thomas

5. Staylock

I don't think Cam will get moved until the FA goalies are tied up.

Miller/Hiller are 33/34, brodeur/thomas are each in their 40's. Staylock is good but unproven as a starter for a championship caliber too. San Jose wants someone that has multiple yrs left and has played on a big stage. It is an unproven rumor, but it does make sense.

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rem, I'm like you on this Marleau rumor, anybody but Eklund and I might have some hope of it's truthfulness. With him, it's just too often spit balling it appears to me.

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When is the last time an Eklund rumor actually panned out?  I can't think of any...except the ones he reports after they have been announced.

 

I am guessing that if there is any truth to this rumor, the prospect they would want is Murphy.  They need to replace some offensive production on the buleline.  This deal would instantly make our team better without adding significant salary.

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Miller/Hiller are 33/34, brodeur/thomas are each in their 40's. Staylock is good but unproven as a starter for a championship caliber too. San Jose wants someone that has multiple yrs left and has played on a big stage. It is an unproven rumor, but it does make sense.

 

True, but Miller and Hiller are better options. Broduer and Thomas would make great mentors for a young goalie and in a pinch, be a starter in a short term. Staylock had a similar season like Khudobin and has nothing but upside. I still think Cam will be a Cane at the beginning of the season and would more than likely get moved as part of a mid season trade. Of course you can say the same about Khudobin. Plus with what happened to Cam last season might be motivation and could do nothing but raise his possible trade value. They aren't going to make a trade just for the sake of making one, it has to make sense to both sides.

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When is the last time an Eklund rumor actually panned out?  I can't think of any...except the ones he reports after they have been announced.

 

I am guessing that if there is any truth to this rumor, the prospect they would want is Murphy.  They need to replace some offensive production on the buleline.  This deal would instantly make our team better without adding significant salary.

 

When I read the posted rumor the first prospect that came to my mind was Murphy. You need to give to get, I guess.

 

I think Eklund got one right last year, maybe, maybe not.  lol

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