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We can't count Loktionov   and Ruutu as two players lost. Ruu was traded for Loktionov.

That is one player spot.

 

I can. The reason is a bit convoluted though. I am looking at this year's team vs. what I wrote would be a successful team before the season started last year. I expected one more move to happen that never happened. I was hoping for Morrow or Jagr. This was in addition to hopes that Ruutu would be servicable. Ruutu did turn into Lotkionov, and frankly if his shoulder injury hadn't occured, I'd be fine w/ Lotkionov in for Ruutu, but we needed one more at least third line proven producer w/ an edge that never came.

 

Despite all of that, I'd take just one more move now to get us back to the actual level we actually had last year (as opposed to my proposed team before the season started). Bottom line, one move. At least a third liner. Penner? Someone else shaked loose from cap problems? Meuller? Someone.

 

If not, it will have to be Boychuk.

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Semin: OK, at least RF is being real.  I read this as "long recovery".  Might even be a bit "iffy" at the start of the season.  Wrist surgery is no picnic.  I'm glad Alex had it done asap after the season.  I don't want to wish bad on anyone, but I wonder if Crosby is being realistic about his wrist (the apparent reason he was a no-show in the playoffs).  He's hoping to rehab it to health.  If that doesn't work, a late summer surgery would be good news for his opponents, even if JR and Sid say "Everything's great!"

 

LaRose: no thanks.  Maybe we'll have another O'Neill situation for the preseason.  Worth a few laughs.

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I can see LaRose getting a tryout. I'm not sure how much of a chance he has of getting back. The Manny route of starting with the Chex to prove you still have game is more likely. One more indication IMO that Francis thinks the biggest problem was Muller and Co.

 

I can see a Bellemore signing. More depth at D and allows you to make another move if you want.

 

I hope Semin is ready to start the season.

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When players like Gleason-Rutuu-Jussi-Rosie (and others) "disappeared" during games and others failed miserably - or were iffy from game to game and heck sometimes period to period- that was always a system/coaching thing...this organization (it appears) had become very disorganized... From the top down and it showed on the ice...

I say give them all a shot- if their done then cut them loose- but for now ... What do we have to lose?

We know what players like Gleason and Rosie can bring to the team both on and OFF THE ICE. CAN being the optimal word.

Say what you will about Rosie but one thing you never heard was- "he's coasting out there"

Same thing for Gleason- Gleasons problem was coaches in the past asking him to play a style that was not in his wheel house...

I'm glad RF signed Gleason and hope the coach plays to his strong points if so we will get what we ask for :)

I'm hoping RF gives Rosie a shot- at least he will play a full 60+ min every night and make it entertaining :)

Let the flaming begin (LOL)

Edited by Pkling40

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Actually--no flaming here. Rosie would add entertainment----and he gives his all every game.

That is the truth----he lends humor to the room, too.  Interesting to see what happens. 

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The only way LaRose gets a shot is on a two way and starting in Charlotte. 

 

Yes, the guy gave it his all. Character to boot, and we do need right wingers...

 

BUT he put up 4 points in 35 games then has been out of hockey for a year....the last 3 years he was a minus 40. 

 

He can't pass to save his life, never could. 

 

We want to get big on the 4th line. 

 

Chad may not have gone out the way he wanted, but he is overall still fondly remembered in the history of this team and as an undrafted, undersized player to play 508 NHL games....nice. Keep the memories fond Chad.

 

If he wants to get down there in Charlotte and show his chops, fine. But if he ends up on the big team out of camp, I can only think of the  line: "second verse, same as the first, a little bit louder and a little bit worse."

Edited by remkin

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Might as well put this here.

 

Does this team, pretty much unchanged, have a real shot this year, or are we just biding time until we can de-core and rebuild?

 

I would say both. But the possibility that this team as is, might make the playoffs is far less laughable than at first blush. 

 

Just for fun I went down our forward list and calculated a reasonable expectation point wise for them. Mostly looked at their career averages, and career average games played per year and brought them to that. In a couple of cases (Lindholm/Tlusty, that isn't a reasonable thing, since Tlusty really started scoring the past 3 years, and Lindholm was 18, and started injured, and actually came on at the end of the year. Not projecting improvement from him is not fair. 

 

So what is a reasonable expectation vs. last year for:

 

E.Staal: +15/76 points.  He has put that up like clockwork until last year, and was on a 90 point pace two years ago.

Semin: +20/62 points. He would have had 53 last year if he stayed healthy. He was on an 82 point pace two years ago.

J Staal: +10/50 points.  J has put up 50 points 3 times already (ok 49), and really should be able to do 60 based on his last two Pit yrs.

Skinner: +10/65 points. Skinner can put up 10 more assists easy. He did it at 18 yo. 30 goals for him is no problem. 

Tlusty: +10/40 points. This is based on last 3 years and his injury history. One year contract should motivate. Could go up 20 easily.

Lindholm: +20/41 points. This is a pure prediction. He was 18, injured to start, came on late, and would have put up +9 last yr w/ a full season's games: 30 points last year. If he doesn't break 40 this year I'd be really surprised.

 

That's 85 more points. Maybe 35 more goals. That would have tied us for #6 in the league in goals for. 

 

Ruutu put up a line of 16 points and -19 by far the worst on the team. Whoever fills that spot will also add more points and defense than that. I'm not even counting that.

 

If Lindholm and Tlusty can hit 40 points, we can almost guarantee that the other guys will at least hit that. That would give us 6 40+ point producers. Only two teams had more last year: Boston (who will be down Iginla this year), and Tampa (down St Louis this year).

 

Note that only for Linholm and Skinner would these be bone fide career years. Hardly a stretch for Lindholm, and Skinner did 2 fewer points than projected at 18 years old, again a few more passes and he's there.

 

So this is really just the offense finding the game that one would have projected last year in a very reasonable projection and adding some improvement for two young guys. This does not account for a Boychuk or someone else stepping up. Yet there are still enough goals there to put us in the top 10 in goals, where this team should be. Combine that with center mass average defense and decent goaltending and that equals playoffs. Not the cup, but playoffs. 

 

I'm not saying it will happen at this point. After it didn't last year.....holding off on that. 

 

Just saying that it's not as much of a long shot as some think. If the coach can get the PP and the 5/5 offense back to players norms and expectations it would, by definition, happen. Imagine if he got players above their averages....

 

Wins are not just about individuals. I get that. Surely last year showed that. There is still the distinct possibility that the culture, leadership, etc. are just not going to be there with this group. I guess we'll find out. But this collection has far more potential than it has shown to date, far more.

Edited by remkin

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Might as well put this here.

 

Does this team, pretty much unchanged, have a real shot this year, or are we just biding time until we can de-core and rebuild?

 

 

I think we have a shot. Lots of things will need to go right and lots of players will need to play to or beyond their potential. If we go get a true top 6 winger without giving up the farm we would have a real chance, until then we only have a chance.

 

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The Mo Blender comes into mind with line changes and then Muller never changing the lines comes to mind. Theirs certainly a happy medium to those two styles.

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My bet is this team will be on a short leash approaching the deadline, and Francis will be much quicker than JR to pull the trigger and load up on picks and/or prospects if we aren't solidly showing we have a real shot.

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I agree Coastal. Can't help but think that on some level Francis wanted to move E., but definitely Ward but the NTC's and the big contracts, made this really impossible at this exact point.

 

So I'll bet anything that Francis has told E. "This is the last run if it doesn't start well. This team should be better than it is, but for at least two years it has vastly underperformed. I still think this team can get it done. There is enough talent. So lets give it all we've got to start, and hopefully we get a good start and go from there. But if we don't. If this group keeps underperforming...all bets are off. Let's get it done! Now go out there and win one for the Gipper!" 

 

But the leash will be short. 

 

It is really not fair to blow it up quite that fast, but I really think that this team should come out and get a bit ahead in the first 15 games. I'd love to see 10-5 or in that neighborhood. 

 

But if the third time is not a charm, and things get bad, I think Francis will feel justified in blowing some things up sooner than later, even if the return is suboptimal.

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I'm all in on a rebuild staring with the trade deadline (wink Legend).

 

I'm tired of waiting for something that ain't gonna happen.

 

It's the deepest draft in 10 years, so some say.

 

JR's funk will then be gone.  Woot.

 

That's about where I'm at.

 

In the mean time, let's just win at home.  Thanks in advance for that Bill Peters.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I agree Coastal. Can't help but think that on some level Francis wanted to move E., but definitely Ward but the NTC's and the big contracts, made this really impossible at this exact point.

 

So I'll bet anything that Francis has told E. "This is the last run if it doesn't start well. This team should be better than it is, but for at least two years it has vastly underperformed. I still think this team can get it done. There is enough talent. So lets give it all we've got to start, and hopefully we get a good start and go from there. But if we don't. If this group keeps underperforming...all bets are off. Let's get it done! Now go out there and win one for the Gipper!" 

 

But the leash will be short. 

 

It is really not fair to blow it up quite that fast, but I really think that this team should come out and get a bit ahead in the first 15 games. I'd love to see 10-5 or in that neighborhood. 

 

But if the third time is not a charm, and things get bad, I think Francis will feel justified in blowing some things up sooner than later, even if the return is suboptimal.

I agree.  Besides, more teams might go for a trade if they only have to take one year of Eric or Ward. Worst case we could do the Irbe thing and bury 'em in the ECHL till they took a trade. I wouldn't trade anybody under the age of 21 unless we got fair value for them, though.

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Well you know expectations are low when we are looking at next year's draft already, but....

 

Everyone knows about Conner McDavid, but many think Jack Eichel is just about as good and another generational talent. Then there's another top talent dman Noah Hanifan, and it just keeps going. 

 

I'm not quite as ready to throw in the towel on this group, but imagine if we could pick up someone's first rounder next year to go with our own, or two?

 

Still, low expectations can lead to a nice surprise....

 

It certainly does appear like PK/RF are going to roll the dice one more time with this exact same team. If they surprise maybe they upgrade for the playoffs. If not, yes, with next year's draft looking deeper than Ruutu's minus last year, it wouldn't be a terrible year to compile picks....

 

RF has the advantage of being in his first year. Not winning this year would not be the end of the world for him if it leads to a serious re-load.

 

Still, as a fan, I have to hold out more hope. A team compiled from this and next year's drafts will be at least 3 years away from being anything...I gotta get some cheaper tickets.

Edited by remkin

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Morning rem, etal. This is not an attempt to unleash controversy at this early stage in this season, but when the news broke that RF was going to meet with Chad LaRose, all 5ft10 and 175 lbs of him, that to me was a signal to begin to bone up on next years draft! I mean, here we go down that road again, Gerbe @ 5ft5, 178; Dwyer @5ft11, 175; JML @ 5ft10, 185; Boychuk @5ft10, 185;Murphy @5ft11, 185;Lindholm @6ft1, 192; Nash @6ft1 200; and even Skins @5ft11, 200 !!! Then you've got Tolchinsky waiting in the wings, all 5ft8 163lbs!!  Bruisers all.

 

I mean, talking to LaRose could just be to give him respect, and I'd be all for that, but if he comes up to the bigs and on this team, unless a couple of the others I've pointed out are off loaded, I think RF is posturing toward a high pick in this next draft?

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I'm not about to lose my mind over an RF/Rosie meeting. All I can see it resulting in is an invite to camp to prove to somebody(not necessarily the Canes) that he has something left in the tank. Gerbe is a younger/better version of Rosie. If he was 6'3" and 220 lbs, he'd fit on the 4th line, but he isn't and he doesn't.

To Team Rosie, you all talk about what he brings, but he wasn't the pest you remember for those last 2 or 3 years he was on the team. He was okay until he was continuously over slotted. Once he became a "goal scorer" he didn't get under anybody's skin any longer. I fondly remember being at a game, sitting a few rows up and right in front of us Rosie baited Chara into a fight and both were gone for 5 minutes. That was several seasons ago. That is the Rosie that people want, be he doesn't live here any more.

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Chad Larose biggest defensive liability in Canes history. Let's not re sign this guy. If Mueller does come to camp and Larose gets a contract and he doesn't that would be a travesty.

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I'd rather take a chance on Brock McGinn than entertaining a LaRose comeback. 

:thumbsup:  Absolutely. 

Edited by remkin

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I never liked the way the LaRose time in Carolina ended. It may have even left a lingering smell if not downright stink among the veterans in the locker room. Certainly LaRose played a part in it not showing up for his exit interview but it was apparent more was going on then just how LaRose played.

 

LaRose is one of those players you either love or you don't. His attributes seem as equal as his flaws. I don't think anyone can question his heart, work ethic or tenacity. I think that fight he had when everyone was taking runs at Skinner and no one else would step up, he did. His detractors will say it was foolish and his supporters will say he was the only one who had enough courage to say enough was enough and take a beating for a teammate. Every coach since Mo(1) had tried to bench him but until Muller no one could. He worked his way up undrafted through the ECHL, AHL to the big club. Was he over slotted yes, Does he have defensive flaws yes is he the most gifted player no. But he does deserve his due IMO.

 

I'm not saying he should get a roster spot. I'm saying he deserves a chance to get a roster spot. AHL or NHL he deserves a chance to go out playing and not being forced out.

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I'm not saying he should get a roster spot. I'm saying he deserves a chance to get a roster spot. AHL or NHL he deserves a chance to go out playing and not being forced out.

So a player who's contract is up and who is not re-signed is now "forced out"? I do not agree with that.

He has about 30 chances to go out playing. It isn't the responsibility of the Canes to keep him hanging around. If RF wants to throw him a bone with a camp invite, I have no problem. There are always a bunch of guys there with no shot. Let him get in shape and maybe somebody in the league can use him. There may always be more to the failing to show up for the meeting that we don't know about that would prevent any consideration and we know PK is a grudge holder.

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So a player who's contract is up and who is not re-signed is now "forced out"? I do not agree with that.

He has about 30 chances to go out playing. It isn't the responsibility of the Canes to keep him hanging around. If RF wants to throw him a bone with a camp invite, I have no problem. There are always a bunch of guys there with no shot. Let him get in shape and maybe somebody in the league can use him. There may always be more to the failing to show up for the meeting that we don't know about that would prevent any consideration and we know PK is a grudge holder.

 

Its how I see it. It had nothing to do with his contract status only the way it was handled. Again I'm not saying LaRose deserves a roster spot but only a chance at one.

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