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The problem is that we have already experienced the pain, and have nothing to show for it.

Very true. I guess it's a matter of having gone through all that pain do you want some more? Atypical full on rebuild takes 3 to 5 years, and doesn't always work just ask Edmonton.

That said, next year is supposed to be one of those once in forever drafts, so if it becomes apparent these guys cannot get it done, i'd be on board making moves especially if they resulted in some first-round draft picks next year.

I guess sounding like a broken record, what it comes down to for me is return on investment for a trade would be so low now the better option is to give it one more try first.

If we blow it up now we are terrible all year we get no return on investment. If we get off to a bad start and blow it up later maybe one or two guys has some return and we get more for our investment and we stink.

If that's what happens we stink either way might as will try to get more for return when it comes to rebuilding.

Edited by remkin

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Just a heads up.

It looks like NHL.com is doing a feature on each team during August. Looks like we are scheduled for tomorrow so there should be some Canes articles up, for what it's worth.

 

Thanks for the heads up. Here is the link  30 Teams in 30 Days

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Holy smokes, guys! THIS is why I try to avoid the message board until "something" happens with the team or the season starts! Some of you have the season doomed already.....and it's August! Yes, the team has its issues, but I think most would agree that the main problem with the Canes was the lack of solid coaching and implementing a system that works and that suits our roster. I think we have that now. The roster is pretty good and is VERY capable of making the playoffs. Will they? Who knows, but why get wound up about it in August? :) Are we as deep as some teams? No. That is for obvious reasons, such as management's decisions over the last decade, the self imposed cap, etc., but we have a pretty good team assuming they will come out clicking. They have the ability, we'll see if the new life Francis breathed into the coaching staff motivates players and gets the team going. I think it will and NOBODY has any reason to think otherwise. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and can post whatever they want, but man, let it go and let's watch some hockey before we start "calling the season at Christmas" or assuming we're done already. There is still some summer fun left out there! Enjoy, and let's discuss how "terrible" the team looks at camp and in October! Haha!   

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I was just speaking hypothetically. Calm down. 

 

I do think the team is capable of making a run to the playoffs. I do believe Muller was one of the problems the past couple seasons. However, another big problem was key injuries and depth. One injury to the top 6 and we become a very vulnerable team. I wasn't expecting Francis to be able to fix this problem in one offseason. I actually think Francis did an alright job in his first offseason. 

 

With all that said, if we are on the outside looking in at the deadline, would you guys rather keep trucking along or acknowledge that a rebuild is probably necessary for long-term success?

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Let's say we aren't in the playoff hunt at the deadline, do we start selling off a few pieces and tank for McDavid?

No, you never tank. Players play the game to win. I don't think you will ever see a player say they've given up no matter how bad things may be. Yeah, sure you can trade some pieces to contending teams, but if the team is bad, it's bad. No reason to quit a season for a guy that may/may not be game changing. You let the chips fall where they may, and if you are lucky, McDavid is the consolation prize to a dreadful year.

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No, you never tank. Players play the game to win. I don't think you will ever see a player say they've given up no matter how bad things may be. Yeah, sure you can trade some pieces to contending teams, but if the team is bad, it's bad. No reason to quit a season for a guy that may/may not be game changing. You let the chips fall where they may, and if you are lucky, McDavid is the consolation prize to a dreadful year.

 

 

Oh, when I say tank I mean trade players. I wouldn't want the players we keep to stop playing hard.

Edited by TheFaulker

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Oh, when I say tank I mean trade players. I wouldn't want the players we keep to stop playing hard.

I think ultimately the players would try to play for the fans and their own pride, even if the outcome isn't in their favor. Even if decided to keep them all, I don't think any player would not play hard, unless maybe they are hiding an injury. They are still playing for that next contract even on a bad team.

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I get ya Rem, and no, I don't think it's time for a complete blowup right now.  The reason being is that I don't think RF can get the proper return on the assets that he would be moving.  I do think there is a nucleus to build around, but RF is going to have to ride out a couple of JR's bad deals and decisions.  In a perfect world, PK could have cut a couple of checks as compliance buyouts and moved on.  I think the team can be competitive, but it's going to take more out of everyone than we have seen in the last few seasons.  I think they have the ability, but it's going to be up to Peters to get them there.  I do wonder where the physicality will come from.  It's still an ongoing issue.

Edited by super_dave_1

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So to sum up the 30 teams in 30 days article, we could make the playoffs but we won't.

 

I;m beginning to get a complex. I'm beginning to get angry. Throw caution to the wind, in spite of the experts and possible reality of our situation and I know a lot has to go right but this team is going to make the playoffs. Well at least I'll cling to the we could make the playoffs.

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There is one factor for the Canes which has not been taken into account. How well does Peters fire up the players and push them into the playoffs. Our perspective on the season may take a drastic change.

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And if I remember correctly, we were not picked to make the playoffs in 2006 either.  Who knows, maybe they surprise us.  It does appear that RF believes that the issues surrounding this team were between the coach and JR.  I hope thats the case and this team can be coached to success.

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So to sum up the 30 teams in 30 days article, we could make the playoffs but we won't.

 The year we won the Cup, I believe we were picked to finish 30th in the league in preseason reports?? Do we have a Cup winner? No, but we aren't that bad! ;) 

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So to sum up the 30 teams in 30 days article, we could make the playoffs but we won't.

Ok, another heads up to those that may not know. There are 4 or 5 articles about the Canes on NHL.com, including a breakdown of our top 10 prospects (McGinn is #1 Rem), with a small breakdown of each player. An article about the five biggest issues facing the Canes. One about the need for E. Staal to have a bounce back year (some interesting comments from Peters about using Eric in every situation), etc..

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Holy smokes, guys! THIS is why I try to avoid the message board until "something" happens with the team or the season starts! Some of you have the season doomed already.....and it's August! Yes, the team has its issues, but I think most would agree that the main problem with the Canes was the lack of solid coaching and implementing a system that works and that suits our roster. I think we have that now. The roster is pretty good and is VERY capable of making the playoffs. Will they? Who knows, but why get wound up about it in August? :) Are we as deep as some teams? No. That is for obvious reasons, such as management's decisions over the last decade, the self imposed cap, etc., but we have a pretty good team assuming they will come out clicking. They have the ability, we'll see if the new life Francis breathed into the coaching staff motivates players and gets the team going. I think it will and NOBODY has any reason to think otherwise. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and can post whatever they want, but man, let it go and let's watch some hockey before we start "calling the season at Christmas" or assuming we're done already. There is still some summer fun left out there! Enjoy, and let's discuss how "terrible" the team looks at camp and in October! Haha!   

 

Unless you just like standing in front of trains, then maybe take your own suggestion and face the fact that some people just don't share your opinion.  :)   And August is when folks share their opinion on the upcoming season.

 

Personally, I've read a whole lot of optimism around here surrounding the recent changes to the front office and coaching staff, our more recent prospects, and there's plenty going around on why the team is going to be more competitive this year, whether we make the playoffs or not.

 

This happens every year.

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Unless you just like standing in front of trains, then maybe take your own suggestion and face the fact that some people just don't share your opinion.  :)   And August is when folks share their opinion on the upcoming season.

 

Personally, I've read a whole lot of optimism around here surrounding the recent changes to the front office and coaching staff, our more recent prospects, and there's plenty going around on why the team is going to be more competitive this year, whether we make the playoffs or not.

 

This happens every year.

As long as we don't go crazy like the Leaf fans, and base our team potential and lineup based off of liked Tweets, it's not a bad thing.

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Sadly our chance to do some damage was when we had Jokinen under a cap friendly contract. Jr sure dropped a goose egg with that one. Our d is better but forward a are weaker. This is a crap shoot.

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Ah, the wonderful hockey dead time when the seldom posters come out to tell us we are doing it wrong. It's almost as good as the beginning of the season starts and the " we want Ward's head on a pike" returns. For everything there is a season.

As for the nay-saying, I still say that I'm waiting to be shown on the ice that it's going to be different. I don't think Francis had a lot of options, but at least he hasn't doled out any stupid contracts. I don't think it will take a complete blowup, but we are going to have to see a couple of contracts play out.

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As for the nay-saying, I still say that I'm waiting to be shown on the ice that it's going to be different. I don't think Francis had a lot of options, but at least he hasn't doled out any stupid contracts. I don't think it will take a complete blowup, but we are going to have to see a couple of contracts play out.

 

"First do no harm."  I think that's a good move by Francis.  He can operate later if necessary.

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Yeah, not being all optimistic and stuff is #thedevil.  Oh, and edit: :sarcasmalert:

 

RF is doing it right.  No worries here.  Whatever happens, happens, but at least we aren't going JR backwards.

 

In fact, the more I remember what PK said about fans being "even more patient" is spot on when you look around at the mess to clean up.  Don't get me wrong, we have some very good players, but the group as a whole may not be the type of end product RF is looking for.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I think that most of those agree to the general summation:

There is definitely enough talent on this team. There's definitely more talent on this team then the record suggests. The question is, is there some inherent flaw in the make up and dynamic of this team that does not allow the talent to express itself fully? And more to the point will a new coach and management be able to find that ingredient that brings it all together?

The pessimists say rightfully that this team has underperformed so what's different? The optimist say we finally have a new coach and there's just too much talent here to be this bad and that is true also. The media is largely useless because they are simply looking at things superficially. Most of them don't have the insight to dig any deeper than to look at last years record project this year's changes come up with a result.

So I have to agree with those who say that this is a bit of a crapshoot. But when you shoot craps you have a chance.

I tend to be optimistic this time of year. I tend to look at each individual player and what they can bring and see more talent there than some people think.

I'm confident in the assessment that there is enough talent on the team. There's enough historical evidence that the individual players on this team can put up enough goals and play decent enough defense and get good enough goaltending to make the playoffs. However I completely understand the reservation that that was true last year too and it did not work out.

So I'm actually there with super Dave and coastal and others with the show me, but maybe a little more optimistic that they will show us. A little more.

Edited by remkin

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Due to all of us having reasonably low to no expectations I will agree that we have a lot of high end talent and our Defense is probably middle of the pack in the rankings. The defense is actually pretty good. So here we go. Our seasons success or failure will be based on what injuries occur. If non of our stars and if Sekera and Hainsey do not go down. We MIGHT make the playoffs.

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So I'm actually there with super Dave and coastal and others with the show me, but maybe a little more optimistic that they will show us. A little more.

 

And there's nothing wrong with that Rem.  I'm just a little more optimistic a little ways down the road, when our depth catches up a little.

 

And speaking of down the road, I can't wait to hear the comments around here when Brock McGinn finally gets in the lineup and lines up somebody.  He really is a human cannonball.  Instant fan favorite.  You heard it here first, well, along with the above mentioned Remkin.  He will sell jerseys.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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