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I'd puke if Skinner was on the third line with Riley Nash.

 

I expect 35 goals this year, much better than the paltry 30 he put up last year.

 

Lindholm should feed him, or Semin.

 

Time says Tlusty is a good two-way forward and cleans up garbage, he's really not a play maker.

 

More options.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Remkin, I think your line projections are bang-on. In the Lindholm interview, he spoke of the confidence developed at the end of last year on a line with Nash and Skinner, but admitted he had not spoken to the new coaching staff. Even though it seemed that Jordan and Skinner lacked chemistry early last year, I think at the end of last year, Lindholm showed what a slick playmaker he can be, and with him rounding out the line instead of Gerbe or Dwyer, hopefully the chemistry will be there.

Also agree with Boychuck on the 3rd line. His offensive upside SHOULD be far higher than Dwyer's, and he is a proven goal scorer at every level but the NHL. If he cannot earn a spot on the third line in training

camp, I think he is wasted on the fourth line and hopefully another option (Terry or McGinn) can fill that role. But please Coach Peters, do not pull a Muller with him and play him 2 shifts in the top 9 then drop him to the fourth line and play him 5 minutes a game. If we are going to give him a chance to be a top 9

forward,he needs at least 15 -20 games to show what he can do before we give up on him and send him to

Charlotte.

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Yeah, BD I am completely with you on Boychuk. He has enough NHL level ice time to be able to know how the game is played at this level, but much of it has been on lower lines. Especially early, in the Mo years, and even under Muller, the method of bringing up guys stuck in the AHL was this: come up here and show us you will back check and not screw up on defense. Exception: guys who slip the AHL net and start w/ the big club (Skinner, Linholm). 

 

Well that's fine for a Brandon Sutter, where that's his game anyway. But a guy like Boychuk gets stuck in a squeeze. He's never going to be a shut down back checking guy. Look at Ray Whitney's plus minus, career and his first 5-6 seasons. 

 

Boychuk has sniffed the top 6, but mostly has been moved around more than a pin ball, different lines, different teams, and a lot of it in "checking" assignments, or low ice time.  

 

One thing's for sure. It has not been handed to him. For a guy very highly touted when we drafted him, he's had to work for it. If he ever did find a scoring touch, I would think he'd be pretty motivated to stay there. 

 

The only good thing I see from Francis standing pat and not getting one more piece is that we will see what Boychuk, and or Terry can do.  I don't expect huge numbers, but 30-35 points is very very solid from the 3rd line. Just for fun, went back to see how many guys were over 30 points past years. Only two years hit 7 (2011,2008-09). In 2008-9 we also had 6 forwards over 40 points. And went to the ECF. In 11-12 we lacked top end scoring w/ 3 guys over 40 and two of them right at 40. 

 

So, if Gerbe and Boychuk hit 30, even if Nash misses, that would probably be 8 guys over 30. If our big boys find their game......

 

In 08-09 we had the #8 defense in goals allowed. Cam had what was probably his only elite goalie year that year too. So I'm not saying we go to the ECF, but this team really should be able to put up way more goals than last year, and hopefully have at least a middle of the pack defense.

 

Got off on a bit of a tangent there, but give Boychuk a real shot is my point.

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Since RF singled out his desire to see E. Staal at LW, I would not be surprised to see that get a long look in camp.  We might see something like:

 

E. Staal / J. Staal / Boychuck

Skinner /  Lindholm / Semin

Tlusty / Nash / Gerbe

Malone / McClement / Dwyer

 

Boychuck might get a lot of looks at the net on his off wing with both Staals demanding attention.

 

Lindholm showed great chemistry with Skinner late in the season, but he also showed great chemistry with Semin on the PP.  Linholm seems to have great chemistry with all skilled players.  That has to bode well for the future.

 

I can't think of anything great to say about that third line, but it could gell?

 

Solid 4th line with Malone's physicality, McClement's defensive acumen, and Dwyer's speed.

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I'm excited to see what Boychuk does this season as well. I want to see what he brings in camp with a new coach and a clean slate and show what he can bring to the team. With that chance and with the knowledge he's gained from his young NHL career so far. He still has a ton of potential and may show that he didn't rank as high as he did for no reason.

Also excited to see Semin as always, but I'm really excited if I get to catch a glimpse of Tolchinsky in a pre-season game. Never got to see him last camp/pre-season. I'm going to go to as many pre-season games as I can, so I can get a real feel on Peters and what he can do with our players, prospects included. I want to see Boychuk, Terry, Brown, McGinn, Di Giuseppe, Woods, and Tolchinsky bring it in camp and pre-season. I also want to see them perform well at Traverse City, those that are going.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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Since RF singled out his desire to see E. Staal at LW, I would not be surprised to see that get a long look in camp.  We might see something like:

 

E. Staal / J. Staal / Boychuck

Skinner /  Lindholm / Semin

Tlusty / Nash / Gerbe

Malone / McClement / Dwyer

 

 

 

I just don't like it. E and J don't seem to create much together. Maybe too similar. Then asking Boychuk to be a first liner is a big jump.

 

Then it puts strain on Lindholm to be ready to be a two way second line center at 19. And finally Tlusty is just not that effective as a third liner, though I have less problem w/ that.

 

Not saying they don't try it, but to me if you want J and E together you need a playmaker with them and a very solid second line center to fill the void.

 

Let J and E play on the same PP unit so we can make another quick hand passing pp unit, yes. Though not sure Peters agrees w/ that given his E needs more PP goals comment.

Edited by remkin

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Hopefully it's about what Bill Peters wants on the ice and not Ronnie otherwise that's just what I assume business as usual from last year.

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Putting E & J together isn't an awful idea. They are big and both should be able to put up points especially if combined with a scoring winger. E can also skate on the right side, he has done it before but when you put them together we become weaker (IMO) on the other lines. 

 

Oh for one more top 6!

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I have to agree with Remkin.  My first thought was that Lindholm is not quite ready for two-way responsibilities.  

 

The other thing that line up does is make our #1 go against their #1.  I wonder how much that would limit the point production of that line.  I wouldn't want Skin/Lind/Sem going against the other team's top line.  

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NHL announces changes to Draft Lottery format - NHL.com - News

 

 

Might as well make the playoffs. 

 

The NHL is (appropriately) making it less attractive to lose your way to the bottom.

 

The last place team now has a 1/5 chance at Conner McDavid. 

 

The next year they  weighted-randomize the top 3 spots and the ultimate loser has around a 40% chance of dropping all the way to #4.

 

 

Edited by remkin

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Reflections! With the downright boredom of these stagnant off seasons, it is so easy to look back and, in retrospect, be so dogmatic about errors that occurred the previous season(s).

 

With all the pontifications as to the most effective permutations of our forward lines, and I agree there are many, I've been struck by or should I say have experienced an epiphany concerning what I believe is the root of the Canes problems for years. Please don't scoff at this oft discussed thought, as many before this have stated similar reflections, but I truly wonder if our team can ever achieve continued success until something is done to correct what I have come to believe is a basic flaw.

 

As I presently view discussions of many above on deployment of our talented forwards, the rather hidden issue is the emphasis, or should I say, burden constantly placed on this group to play DEFENSE. Now, that in itself is not a bad thing, and certainly needs to be a part of their game, but for many years, it seems to be the ultimate way our coaches seem to make line assignments, much to the detriment of particularly our young prospects.

 

Now, you probably are wondering where this rambling is going, and to cut to the chase, IMHO,the root of this dilemma is our former GM's often displayed abhorrence of drafting Dmen, Justin Faulk not withstanding. Admittedly, as a recent convert to the sport(ie,since 2002), I certainly have no answer to the conundrum in which Jim Rutherford found himself with attempting to establish a good defensive core, being unwilling to draft and then invest in lengthy training with ever spiraling costs to retain vs attempting to purchase established expertise on the free market, but hopefully RF will find an effective way.

 

Thus, in my ideal world, RF should make his primary goal to acquire some top quality defenseman at whatever cost, as I believe that would be the key to unleashing the talent we have in our offense. Make no mistake, Fleury is a great start and our defense is coming along, but the "additional piece" we all keep craving, I believe should be a top defenseman. Just my 2 cents.

 

BTW, Lake, I'm sporting my "new" avatar!! Thank you

Edited by KJUNKANE

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In other news, for those favoring stripping a local captaincy, there is a new precedent. It might be interesting to see how that plays out:

 

San Jose Sharks no longer have Joe Thornton as captain - NHL.com - News

 

 

Says Thornton:

 

"It's a big honor and it's a big responsibility so it's a little strange when they take it away from you,"

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Says Thornton:

 

"It's a big honor and it's a big responsibility so it's a little strange when they take it away from you,"

Coulda been Rod's quote as well after they unfairly stripped him and gave it to E...but he had a bit more class.

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Reflections! With the downright boredom of these stagnant off seasons, it is so easy to look back and, in retrospect, be so dogmatic about errors that occurred the previous season(s).

 

With all the pontifications as to the most effective permutations of our forward lines, and I agree there are many, I've been struck by or should I say have experienced an epiphany concerning what I believe is the root of the Canes problems for years. Please don't scoff at this oft discussed thought, as many before this have stated similar reflections, but I truly wonder if our team can ever achieve continued success until something is done to correct what I have come to believe is a basic flaw.

 

As I presently view discussions of many above on deployment of our talented forwards, the rather hidden issue is the emphasis, or should I say, burden constantly placed on this group to play DEFENSE. Now, that in itself is not a bad thing, and certainly needs to be a part of their game, but for many years, it seems to be the ultimate way our coaches seem to make line assignments, much to the detriment of particularly our young prospects.

 

Now, you probably are wondering where this rambling is going, and to cut to the chase, IMHO,the root of this dilemma is our former GM's often displayed abhorrence of drafting Dmen, Justin Faulk not withstanding. Admittedly, as a recent convert to the sport(ie,since 2002), I certainly have no answer to the conundrum in which Jim Rutherford found himself with attempting to establish a good defensive core, being unwilling to draft and then invest in lengthy training with ever spiraling costs to retain vs attempting to purchase established expertise on the free market, but hopefully RF will find an effective way.

 

Thus, in my ideal world, RF should make his primary goal to acquire some top quality defenseman at whatever cost, as I believe that would be the key to unleashing the talent we have in our offense. Make no mistake, Fleury is a great start and our defense is coming along, but the "additional piece" we all keep craving, I believe should be a top defenseman. Just my 2 cents.

 

BTW, Lake, I'm sporting my "new" avatar!! Thank you

 

Yeah, now THAT's a cool avatar if I do say so myself, lol! :thumbsup:

 

One thing to keep in mind regarding the Canes D is how big a hole the fluke Pitkanen injury left on the blueline.  Imo Pits was a good example of "you don't appreciate what you've got 'till it's gone", especially when it comes to moving the puck forward. But that doesn't completely eliminate your point that we seem to have been an "offense first" team from a sr. management perspective for a while.  I'm guardedly optimistic going forward, though, with Faulk, Sekera, Fleury, and Murphy hopefully providing a solid young base to build around (with Hainsey providing some sr. leadership for the next three years).

 

 

In other news, for those favoring stripping a local captaincy, there is a new precedent. It might be interesting to see how that plays out:

 

San Jose Sharks no longer have Joe Thornton as captain - NHL.com - News

 

 

Says Thornton:

 

"It's a big honor and it's a big responsibility so it's a little strange when they take it away from you,"

I'd love to see the Canes do that this season.

Edited by LakeLivin

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Kjun,

 

For some reason when I quote your post my return key doesn't work....weird. Anyway to your point....

 

Certainly a reasonable observation. As a board historical matter there are those on this board who have lamented our systemic defensive woes for many moons. They can jump in without my help, but Coastal comes right to mind.

 

I do get JR's dilemma and bias to drafting forwards, and it can be seen in other GM's also. Look at this year's draft: after Ekblad, 92% of the next 12 picks were forwards (11 of 12) with us being the exception.

 

Since defensmen generally take longer to develop you end up burning their entry deal on juniors and AHL time. Then even when they get to the NHL it takes a good amount of time to really get them to near peak. They hit RFA, then not long to UFA and often they're gone. Chara, Pronger, Suter, and others have spent their most productive years not with the team that drafted them. Of course there are very key exceptions, and many of team's good dmen did stay with their teams, though some really make that team pay: Weber, now PK Suban. 

 

Further, it is a touch harder to be sure about d men. Since they take longer to develop and stats on dmen, especially stay at home dmen, tend to be squishier (plus/minus) it seems more likely for them to end up underperforming or even busting. 

 

Then there's the simple fact that most dmen are much less sexy picks. Few come in and excite the building the way say Jeff Skinner did year one. Dmen are long term plays, which are always harder to do if your job is constantly in question. Easier to do for a guy who just got the job.

 

JR also suffered the humiliation of one Jack Johnson. Picked #2 overall. Such excitement on these very boards about his eventual arrival. #2 overall for crying out loud. Except....ooops he John Elway'ed us. We got Gleason. A very nice player, but not the purported upside of the #2 overall pick. Then, ironically JJ probably proved the rule by not really becoming a top dman perhaps until last year of all times. Again, ironically not for the team that first iced him. 

 

JR did pick Brian Doumalin who played 6 games w/ Pittsburgh last year, then traded him for J. And in that same year gave away the #8 pick who turned into Derrick Pouliott for the Pens a Dman. It is quite possible that if we had not traded for J. we would have picked a Dman w/ that pick as there was a serious run on dmen that year (the exception to the rule).

 

Then there was the loss of Pits.

 

I did a little research on the 4 best defensive teams of the past two years. Only one could be said to have built their d through the draft.

 

I know others have done it, but it is not the norm. 

 

What I have also found is a LOT of really good dmen were late round picks or even undrafted. That is where this team has not hit it. 

 

 

It would seem that the best approach is to pick 1-2 mid or high first round dmen, then get at least 1-2 from later rounds, grab a FA, and trade for a couple more. Get that stud high in the draft, but build the bulk of the d other ways.

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I won't let our defense off the hook but our problem the last three seasons has been offense. We can't score and more important is that  we can't sustain pressure or possession in the offensive end of the ice. I don't care how good your D is ( we aren't  the best), if they have to play on their heels all night they are going to break down.

 

Oh and great avatar Kjun. nice job Lake.

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Top 8 defensive team for 2013 and last year include 4 teams on the list both years.

 

Boston:

 

Chara: 3rd round pick NYI

Hamilton: 9th overall pick by Boston

Krug: FA

Boychuk: Col pick traded (late second round pick)

Siedenberg: we all know some of his history....6th rounder by Philly

Bartkowski: 7th rounder: Florida Pick

Miller: FA

 

One Boston draft pick. One.

 

San Jose:

 

Burns: Min. picked late first round

D.Boyle: Panthers undrafted FA

Demers: SJ: 7th round

Vlasic: SJ: 3rd round

Irwin: undrafted FA

Braun: SJ: 7th round

 

Not one first OR second round SJ pick.

 

NYR:

 

McDonagh: MTL pick mid first round

D. Girardi: undrafted FA NYR

D. Moore: NYR 3rd round

J Moore: Columbus late first round

Boyle: LAK end of first round

M. Staal: NYR mid first round

Stralman: TOR 7th round

 

Only one NYR first or second round pick: Staal. 

 

 

I am short on time, but ST Louis is the other team. They have taken the drafting approach far more. 3 guys picked by them in the first round, and one in the 6th round. Boumeister was the #3 pick, but by Florida. Only Petrangelo was a high first round STL pick, though obviously a key part of their d. 

 

So of the 4 top defensive teams of the past two years, only ST. Louis built their d mostly through their own draft.

Edited by remkin

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I won't let our defense off the hook but our problem the last three seasons has been offense. We can't score and more important is that  we can't sustain pressure or possession in the offensive end of the ice. I don't care how good your D is ( we aren't  the best), if they have to play on their heels all night they are going to break down.

 

Oh and great avatar Kjun. nice job Lake.

See OBXer, but that is my somewhat tangential point. Possibly, in my warped mind, the offense's inability to score is that they were being taken off their game by forcing them into a system that compromises their abilities, ergo "a square peg in a round hole". To go a step further, if our defense were more capable, and please don't think that I'm completely down on Faulk, Sekera, etc., but if they were more capable of holding their end up, this might have allowed the offense to do their thing? Just a thought.

Likewise, could that also have spared Cam some of his wear and tear.

And rem, what I glean from your facts, it's obvious that most of the quality Dmen are not super high picks, but must have some type of "good" developmental system. Do we? Or does a team just have to be "lucky"?

Edited by KJUNKANE

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See OBXer, but that is my somewhat tangential point. Possibly, in my warped mind, the offense's inability to score is that they were being taken off their game by forcing them into a system that compromises their abilities, ergo "a square peg in a round hole". To go a step further, if our defense were more capable, and please don't think that I'm completely down on Faulk, Sekera, etc., but if they were more capable of holding their end up, this might have allowed the offense to do their thing? Just a thought.

Likewise, could that also have spared Cam some of his wear and tear.

And rem, what I glean from your facts, it's obvious that most of the quality Dmen are not super high picks, but must have some type of "good" developmental system. Do we? Or does a team just have to be "lucky"?

 

I think that most here feel the same as you. I'm the one who sees it a little different. I can't argue with you over the square peg in a round hole system we have been using and that it certainly has contributed to our struggle. I don't mind a defensive responsibility mindset but when it cripples your offense its trouble.

 

Teams that are always looking to move pucks forward, always looking to score and always looking to get their d-men involved in the rush are the teams that are dangerous. I'm not sure if our defense wasn't more capable all along but the constant defense first of our forwards play kept them ( the D) constantly  deep into their own end.

 

A two way game is essential yet we seem to either play all D or all O all the time. We never seem capable of putting a complete game together.

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Putting E & J together isn't an awful idea. They are big and both should be able to put up points especially if combined with a scoring winger. E can also skate on the right side, he has done it before but when you put them together we become weaker (IMO) on the other lines. 

 

Oh for one more top 6!

 

I'd even settle for one more solid third liner.  At least that would allow some flexibility when a top 6'er is out due to injury. I can see Gerbe being well suited to jump into one of the top 2 lines for spot duty if needed.

 

NHL announces changes to Draft Lottery format - NHL.com - News

 

 

Might as well make the playoffs. 

 

The NHL is (appropriately) making it less attractive to lose your way to the bottom.

 

The last place team now has a 1/5 chance at Conner McDavid. 

 

The next year they  weighted-randomize the top 3 spots and the ultimate loser has around a 40% chance of dropping all the way to #4.

 

But the bottom team is still guaranteed to get one of the top 2 picks next year (it changes the year after next, when all top 3 picks will be determined by lottery).  And with Jack Eichel also being called a "generational player" by most scouts, if we aren't at least competing for a playoff spot right up till the last day of the season, I'd rather us finish last than 5th or 7th.   

Edited by LakeLivin

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Article on NHL.com says Semin will be ready for training camp.

From the information Francis has, he said "absolutely yes" that Semin will be ready.

Semin has also been training with no problems, but comtinue to receive therapy for his wrist.

"There have been no problems with the wrist as far as I've been told" according to Francis.

.

Edited by Kyrule

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