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interesting bit from an article by Craig Custance about the Pens cup chances this year:

 

4) The third line has Staal-ed

When Pittsburgh won the Cup in 2009, Jordan Staal led the third line, while Crosby and Malkin took care of the top two. Since the Penguins traded Staal to the Hurricanes in 2012, Bylsma has cycled through third-line combinations to complement Brandon Sutter but hasn't found the right mix. The key to a good third line is players' staying on the attack and keeping possession of the puck. But Pittsburgh's bottom six consistently get beaten at even strength. The addition of former first-round pick Marcel Goc at the trade deadline should shore up the line and ease the pressure on Crosby -- if Goc, who is expected to miss three weeks after getting knocked into the boards on March 27, can stay healthy. "That's the plan," Bylsma says. "If we need a defensive-zone draw, we go with Goc and still leave Crosby for the other end of the rink."

 

0414.PBNHL.4.standard576.jpg

Edited by LakeLivin

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Wasn't Muller labeled as the best head coach candidate when we hired him?

 

I think that was the general consensus, along with everyone being glad that he had no prior connection with the front office and that he will turn around our anemic power play.  

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...he was the best UNPROVEN coaching candidate (no prior NHL-HC experience)...I recall that the MTL fans were not happy that we got him before they did.  Look how that turned out.

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You know guys, like most, if not all of you on this board, I've been wracking my brain as we're entering this "Twilight Zone" for yet a 5th season, to attempt to arrive at some type of explanation of our perpetual failure to make the post season..An epiphany dawned on me as I've read accounts(sadly, can't view them with my computer and untold breaks in transmission) of Cam Ward's exiting interview. Please hear me out?

 

By every account I've ever read, Cam Ward is a "fine" person. Khodobin, a competitor for his position, clearly agrees. Thus, one wonders at his pointed avoidance of answering the question about his relationship with this coach?

 

This is where I began to think. Altough I can't claim that mine is an original thought, as I've read parts or all of these thoughts from several of you, I'd like to propose that what I'd always considered a brilliant scheme to make hockey not only palatable to this diverse atmosphere, but also highly successful, might have been, in fact, it's unanticipated undoing?

 

When I initially began to develop a love for this game, a dear friend schooled me in the atmosphere of what I'll describe as "wholesomeness" he'd observed about our Canes, much different to several venues he'd been around, namely the Flyers,, and the accompanying "accessibility" he'd never witnessed. My thought at the time was the brilliance as well as the recognition of what atmosphere was necessary to sell hockey as a sport foreign to many in the area, As basketball and  Nascar fanatics, there obviously needed to be some type of "carrot" to gain appeal. Marketing the team as "family friendly" was brilliant, as now entire families could gather around to unite for a team. Additionally, there was the selling point that even mortal enemies, namely Carolina and Duke supporters, could share a common team. Therefore, I believe that to be successful, JR realized early on that his players had to be moral, wholesome and upstanding. This is where I believe things have unraveled!!

 

Now, am I against those values, NO, not in the least. In fact I 100% support them. My point though is that there is likely a very fine line between those upright values, and a feeling of entitlement which is what I've sensed in Cam's statements!! Khodobin, and likely several of the youngsters, seem to get it, with Doby's further stating "we are the players and he is the coach". Any other way is a form of anarchy. Now, my question to you guys, is If there is the underlying feeling of "privilege and entitlement" from some of our players, could ANY coach, even of Tortorella's ilk, be successful? Too, does this give rise to the oft repeated statement we heard this year, "We all are not on the same page"? If that atmosphere exists, doesn't it seem to make sense that the younger, more hungry players would come around to Kirk Muller's system quicker than those "entitled" ones who have their names engraved on The Cup?

 

Wordy, though hopefully food for thought. Sorry for rambling.

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So I think everyone agrees with upgrading at 3C. I've been looking at free agents this offseason and our options seem limited....

 

Top UFA Cs:

Paul Statsny (not happening)

David Legwand

Olli Jokinen

Derek Roy

Mikhail Grabovski

Marcel Goc

Steve Ott

 

And the list just gets worse from there. Not really a lot to chose from. There are some nice RFAs but most are likely resigning with their team. I've read rumblings of Lars Eller (RFA) possibly being available, and he'd be perfect, but I just don't see it happening. 

Edited by TheFaulker

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KJUNKANE----interesting thoughts above.

 

I am not sure Cam or Erik are behaving like "entitled ones"---(they are the only two left with

their names on the cup.)  Their view could be something entirely different, and more personal.

 

On Cam's answer----he is an honest person, I think. So instead of giving some canned PC answer

which may or may not be completely truthful--he just declines to give an answer at all.

 

The newer and the younger players responded to Mullers "system" apparently. If others (un-named

vets) gave some pushback there may be other reasons that go deeper than "entitlement".

 

The guys who have been here longer were here to watch, in the last year or so, a bunch of players,

once considered "Core", no longer on the team---think Gleason, Ruutu, Jussi---and then there is Rosie.

They were all good friends They would all say "hockey is a business" because that is what one is

supposed to say. But why are they all gone?  They are gone because, for one reason or another,

they did not fit into the system or got on the coaches wrong side and didn't play to his expectation.

And JR was giving him latitude to play out a full training camp and season. AND STILL--we missed

the playoffs !

 

The coach is the coach--players are duty bound to play his style. But I also think most veteran NHL coaches

do adjust somewhat, to best utilize their personnel or at least they should. They are realists--I think

Coach Muller is a tad idealistic. And so are his expectations, because he doesn't enforce and holds

no one accountable.

 

Just adding more "food for discussion"----------------- :)

Edited by UNCCaniac8

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KJUNKANE----interesting thoughts above.

 

I am not sure Cam or Erik are behaving like "entitled ones"---(they are the only two left with

their names on the cup.)  Their view could be something entirely different, and more personal.

 

On Cam's answer----he is an honest person, I think. So instead of giving some canned PC answer

which may or may not be completely truthful--he just declines to give an answer at all.

 

The newer and the younger players responded to Mullers "system" apparently. If others (un-named

vets) gave some pushback there may be other reasons that go deeper than "entitlement".

 

The guys who have been here longer were here to watch, in the last year or so, a bunch of players,

once considered "Core", no longer on the team---think Gleason, Ruutu, Jussi---and then there is Rosie.

They were all good friends They would all say "hockey is a business" because that is what one is

supposed to say. But why are they all gone?  They are gone because, for one reason or another,

they did not fit into the system or got on the coaches wrong side and didn't play to his expectation.

And JR was giving him latitude to play out a full training camp and season. AND STILL--we missed

the playoffs !

 

The coach is the coach--players are duty bound to play his style. But I also think most veteran NHL coaches

do adjust somewhat, to best utilize their personnel or at least they should. They are realists--I think

Coach Muller is a tad idealistic. And so are his expectations, because he doesn't enforce and holds

no one accountable.

 

Just adding more "food for discussion"----------------- :)

 Thanks, UNCCaniac8 for at least responding back. As to your comment about only 2 players with their names on the cup, Eric and Cam, I wasn't just limiting that thought to those names as Canes, thus at least Jordan also has his name enshrined thereon, just not with this team. I don't know if others do too?

While your thoughts are very valid, and I do hold Cam in great esteem, if he thought for 1 minute that he deserved play over Khodobin THIS YEAR, he's obviously looking at results with a different vision than mine. Mind you, that I was a staunch supporter of Cam earlier on this year, and feared that Khodobin would come down to earth as he got in more time allowing other teams to better "read" him, Eventually I came to believe that if we had any chance at post season games, we had to play Doby.

And I totally am on board with the concept that the coach has also got to be adaptable, just as he expects his players to "buy into" his system. Still and all, which comes 1st, The Chicken or The Egg? Then again, was Muller dealt a hand and insisted that he play it. Alternately, did he learn anything from this, his first complete season, or do we cut him loose to bring in someone new, with a completely different philosophy to which these players have to again adjust to?

Edited by KJUNKANE

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If I am recalling Cams comments, he said he required playing with some regularity to get

into the flow of games, but there wasn't time in the season to do that in the final playoff push,

by the time he recovered. I didn't see him laying blame on anyone. He was very positive about

Doby.

 

And he was asked about players rumored resistance to playing Muller's style---he is a goalie,

after all. He is not the one to ask. He was smart to stay away from that question completely.

 

I wasn't suggesting Muller go-----I just say any resistance may be personal rather than "elitism"

but, whatever it is, If all parties are going to stay---there has to be a meeting of the minds before

the season begins again. Some third party needs to facilitate that and the air needs to be

cleared. IMO

Edited by UNCCaniac8

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The exit interviews almost all said there was inconsistency.  How they beat better teams and then failed in effort against lesser opponents, or on home ice, or at the start of games.  How on earth can this lead to another year of Muller?

 

I can recall an off period or sequence of shifts where other top notch coaches have said "That's not us, and we'll get that out of our game"  In short, they don't stand for slumps of bad habits to creep into their shifts, games and locker rooms because THEY are in control.

 

Instead we get "I like our game, or they didn't show" from Muller.  We NEVER get that's unacceptable and it will be gone from our game, room, etc.

 

I have no expectation whatsoever that next year will be any different, regardless of who the GM is.

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Well why not talk crazy.

Vancouver is looking to move edler and Kesler,

How about?

Edler, Kesler, Lack/Markstrom

For

Staal, Ward, and a 4th (the 4th we got from the welsh and dalpe trade)

The canes save 2.5 mil which Vancouver may not want to eat but the canes have Edler's contract for an extra 2 years at 5 per. Both teams get to move a couple of guys they want to. Canucks get a replacement for Kesler and a big named goalie. Ward may accept if both him and Eric go. It wont happen but what else we got to do.

Faulk-sekera, hainsey-edler, liles-Harrison wouldn't be a bad 3 pairs.

Edited by gocanes0506

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And he was asked about players rumored resistance to playing Muller's style---he is a goalie,

after all. He is not the one to ask. He was smart to stay away from that question completely.

 

I have to disagree with you on this comment. Ward is a part of the team and he see's just as well as everyone else what the team is doing and not doing, who is resisting and who is playing Muller's game. Being a goalie, he see's more than most because he is out there playing and he know's better than most how each player is going to react on the ice.

 

Now, I agree that it seems he and Doby supported each other, which teammates are suppose to do. But Ward has to understand that with his last 2-3 seasons, he's been hurt and had to sit out. His career is not over but he is no longer a goalie that can play 60+ games a year. Does that take him out of the #1 spot? I don't think so! Both goalies need actual game time to stay sharp. Practice is NOT the same. Can Cam and Doby co-exist and play well...absolutely!! But, there has to be a team in front of them as well.

 

So, like I said, Cam and Doby can answer the question just as well, if not better, than the rest of the team on who is resisting Muller's strategy. Muller just needs to put his foot down and, as I have said in a previous post, move the players not willing to play is style down to another line or sit them for a few games. The issue there is, do the players want to play or are they just has happy not playing since the still make the "big bucks" and are set for life regardless. (Not accusing, just stating possibilities!)

 

To be a winning team, EVERYONE has to buy into the system!

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Sure Cam can coexist with Dobby. However, being paid 6.2m a years means you should be putting up vezina like numbers season in and season out. Ward is killing the team in 2 forms. That contract and hia incompetent goal tending. Bottom line: We need to unload this contract

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I don't think there is any question that spending 8 plus million on a goalie tandem is far to much.  Still I don't think we will give Ward away and I don't think we will buy out the contract. Instead I think that if we can't find a deal we will let Ward and Dobby start the next season as our goalie tandem.  I'm sure the hope is that Ward finds game and Dobby stays strong. It will be easier to move Ward if needed at trade deadline or the following summer.

 

Having said this I believe Ward will be shopped this off season but not as a salary dump. I am not optimistic we will find a deal.

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The writers that keep suggesting we might buy out this contract or that contract do not have a clue about Carolina.  We are typically more concerned with actual dollars spent as apposed to salary cap dollars.  There is no way we can afford to buy out Cam Ward's contract and then pay another back up goalie.  We would end up spending almost as much as we would if we just keep them both!  I believe that Cam will be traded this summer.

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What did he say?

Basically, he said until management is set in stone no one knows which direction the team will go. He made it seem like there is a disconnect between players and coaches and that the front office will have to chose which to build around. He said they'll probably try to move Cam but it'll be difficult.

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I'm not the one to say how much players are "worth" but I do have a question- the year the Canes won the cup- how much was Cam getting paid? He was a huge part of the playoffs that season- and for several seasons he gave the team put in front of him a chance to win- we have not had a complete team really since that run.

We've either had a decent D and no scoring or scoring but no D - this season was a mixed bag...

Management rode Cam till they couldn't any more- he's not a horse he is a human - I say he stays (if he wants to) and he and Doby battle it out for number 1 or better yet they both become number 1 and share the load- TANDEM

As for ERIC if we trade him my gut feeling is we will regret it :(

I've said this before.... other really good teams don't trade/ get rid of players they know can play the game just because they've had an off season- Eric wasn't the only one in a "slump" . I'm in the ERIC stays here camp.

My hope is that EVERYTHING is being looked at... Start at the top and go from there- adjust and tweak where you need to but please don't be stupid about it!

Edited by Pkling40

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 Now, my question to you guys, is If there is the underlying feeling of "privilege and entitlement" from some of our players, could ANY coach, even of Tortorella's ilk, be successful? 

 

 

100% true.

Mgmt plays favorites and that's called fa·vor·it·ism
And its a terrible mgmt style in almost any organizations (sports or otherwise)!

examples:
1) Giving brother Jordan a letter before he ever played a game
2) how PK threw Peters under the bus
3) Given old Canes players jobs all over the place (despite no prior coaching experience)
4) Bring up the 3rd Staal so 3 brothers could play in a game together
the list goes on and on and this team does it more than most.  

In short, play your role, be quite and mgmt might just take care of you.  

Its a huge problem around here IMO.

Edited by Greg-N-Ral

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pkling states "CAM- I say he stays (if he wants to) and he and Doby battle it out for number 1 or better yet they both become number 1 and share the load- TANDEM"

-----

Why on earth do you think it would be a "battle"...
when:
one is washed up (loaded with money -- showing fat cats dont hunt in his case)
and
one is hungry, in his prime and breaking team and league records!

The "battle" is over!!


It always cracks me up when some of you guys refuse to face facts and see the reality .... (hint: 2006 is over!!).

Edited by Greg-N-Ral

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