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Cracks me up how you can't let it go as if we make the choices as to what happens with the team.

 

pkling states "CAM- I say he stays (if he wants to) and he and Doby battle it out for number 1 or better yet they both become number 1 and share the load- TANDEM"

-----

Why on earth do you think it would be a "battle"...
when:
one is washed up (loaded with money -- showing fat cats dont hunt in his case)
and
one is hungry, in his prime and breaking team and league records!

The "battle" is over!!


It always cracks me up when some of you guys refuse to face facts and see the reality .... (hint: 2006 is over!!).

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It's just my opinion :) - I'm not the owner or GM - I don't hire/fire or trade players- and yes Gerber was a huge part of the run - I have moved on from 2006 - I can count (lol) Im well aware that 8 years have passed and many games played since then...

I'm glad I could "crack you up" though :)

Edited by Pkling40

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Forslund did into more detail regarding Cam in his radio interview today. I was on my phone earlier so I couldn't type it all out. He said the backup goalie is a little different in today's game than it used to be. Teams aren't throwing their starter out there for 60-70 games each season anymore. It's more important now to have 2 consistently solid goalies rather than 1 stud and a wildcard backup. Concerning trading Ward, he said the opposing GM would be "taking a leap of faith" by acquiring Ward and his contract. Forslund believes Ward still has plenty of game in him and wasn't necessarily against keeping him. He did touch on Ward's comments about Muller but tried to steer away from it and gave a generic response about that. 

 

As far as the players v. the coaches thing I mentioned earlier, he sorta took up for the staff. He said when the players bought into the system and played the way Muller wanted them to, the team won. But he said some of the players would "play their own game" despite Muller delivering a different message. This is probably why Cam gave the response he did when asked about Muller getting his message across. This is what lead Forslund to hinting at the management having to chose between the staff and some of the players.

 

FWIW, when talking about the PK interview, he did say that PK wishes he could have the "patience" comments back. He added that he thought it was weird that the JR/Francis rumors leaked and then the team didn't say anything about it. 

 

He basically just confirmed what we all thought. The team is at a crossroads and anything can happen this offseason.

Edited by TheFaulker

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Cracks me up how you can't let it go as if we make the choices as to what happens with the team.

L-

This is an NHL message board right?  

ie: sports talk, Canes, "what-if" "I think" etc eh?

So if one guy implies a "battle" is going to be waged between Ward and K-man

and another feels that is so misguided... we talk about it... its a message board.  

If that cracks you up, then I hope you enjoy! 

In truth, I'm guessing you just don't want to hear about how Cam is hurting the team, I get it, you don't want to face those facts  eh. On the flip side if all my posts talked about how Cam is going to make a great comeback and he's a great goalie (like in the playoffs of 2006)  you would not "crack up."

Now if you actually think Cam will become an elite NHL goalie someday, please do explain why. I do not see that.

 

Edited by Greg-N-Ral

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It's just my opinion :) - I'm not the owner or GM - I don't hire/fire or trade players- and yes Gerber was a huge part of the run - I have moved on from 2006 - I can count (lol) Im well aware that 8 years have passed and many games played since then...

I'm glad I could "crack you up" though :)

Fair points. Just saying dont see a "battle" any time soon.  Cam already lost the battle and IMO, that is probably why he threw Coach Kirk under the bus with his passive aggressive actions in his recent locker room interview.

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Forslund believes Ward still has plenty of game in him....

 

John's record of predicting Cam's value and performance is TERRIBLE.

ex: Two years ago he talked about how more than 20 GMs wished they had Cam.

Over the last two, I doubt any GM would have felt good about eating up over $12 mill+  in cap space for Ward's 30-45th ranked goalie performance.

Mike M is the same way...  two years ago he told me Cam is in the TOP-10 among NHL goalies.

IN FACT, even earlier this year, Mike claimed Ward was in the top 15!!!  

Bottom line --- do you really expect the team play-by-play man to slam any player the team is paying HUGE bucks too?

That will never happen -- so we get the "I think his game will come back," stuff.

 

Edited by Greg-N-Ral

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John's record of predicting Cam's value and performance is TERRIBLE.

ex: Two years ago he talked about how more than 20 GMs wished they had Cam.

Over the last two, I doubt any GM would have felt good about eating up over $12 mill+  in cap space for Ward's 30-45th ranked goalie performance.

Mike M is the same way...  two years ago he told me Cam is in the TOP-10 among NHL goalies.

IN FACT, even earlier this year, Mike claimed Ward was in the top 15!!!  

Bottom line --- do you really expect the team play-by-player man to slam any player the team is paying HUGE bucks too?

That will never happen -- so we get the "I think his game will come back," stuff.

 

 

I'm just telling you what he said. I never said I agree with any of it.

Edited by TheFaulker

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Fair points. Just saying dont see a "battle" any time soon.  Cam already lost the battle and IMO, that is probably why he threw Coach Kirk under the bus with his passive aggressive actions in his recent locker room interview.

 

I told myself I'd stay out of this, but just couldn't resist. Here's why people keep saying statistics aren't all that matters (and why sample size DOES matter)...

 

Save Percentage - Last 5 Games

Cam Ward = .9208

Anton Khudobin = .9078

 

One might look at that and say Cam is trending up (i.e. rounding into form), while Anton is trending down (i.e. coming back down to Earth). I'm already aware of the response that's coming: "Well look at their numbers for this season!" and you're certainly entitled to do that. Your stats say Cam is "washed up", mine say he's rounding into form. Given how anything contrary to the "Cam is garbage" line of reasoning inevitably gets labeled as an excuse, I'm already curious to see what you come up with this time.

 

With all that being said, let me make myself very clear. I'm a supporter of Cam and his abilities, but nobody here is saying Khudobin hasn't taken over the #1 spot. It's his and he's earned it with his play this year. Cam isn't just going to come to camp next season (if he's back) and be handed the #1 job. He'll have to earn it by outplaying Khudobin, likely by more than just a slight edge. I'm not about to state as fact that he'll be able to do it, but there's no guarantee that he can't either. That, by definition, would make it a "battle". Ultimately, I expect Khudobin to be our starter once the season starts, but Cam will have his chance.

 

Right now, Cam is the backup on this team (and a very expensive one at that). And while spending that much money on goaltending is far from ideal, it sure as heck beats the alternative. I'd much rather spend too much on goaltending than not enough (because let's face it, if Cam is gone, we'll pick up a cheap replacement or keep Peters).

Edited by Stealth-ch1

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What if we can't trade Ward.  You don't think he is worth the risk to share the net for at least part of next year?

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What if we can't trade Ward.  You don't think he is worth the risk to share the net for at least part of next year?

 

That's the other part I've been thinking about as well. If Cam is anywhere near as bad as some folks think, no GM with a brain is going to trade for him. Even if we were able to make that happen, it would be for an overpaid, underperforming player that will only clog up a different spot on the roster. Whether it's at forward or defense, there already aren't many spots open for the taking, so tying one up just to unload Cam seems (to me) to be, at best, a lateral move.

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I told myself I'd stay out of this, but just couldn't resist. Here's why people keep saying statistics aren't all that matters (and why sample size DOES matter)...

 

Save Percentage - Last 5 Games

Cam Ward = .9208

Anton Khudobin = .9078

 

........ I'm a supporter of Cam and his abilities, but nobody here is saying Khudobin hasn't taken over the #1 spot. It's his and he's earned it with his play this year. Cam isn't just going to come to camp next season (if he's back) and be handed the #1 job. He'll have to earn it by outplaying Khudobin, likely by more than just a slight edge. I'm not about to state as fact that he'll be able to do it, but there's no guarantee that he can't either. That, by definition, would make it a "battle".

Ultimately, I expect Khudobin to be our starter once the season starts, but Cam will have his chance.

 

Because something is not 100% guaranteed, that hardly makes it a “battle” IMO.

A “battle” in this context implies something that is essentially 50-50 when predicting the outcome.

You yourself said, “I expect Khudobin to be our starter once the season starts,” --- that hardly sounds like a “battle” to me.

Taking stats for 5 games when we have a freshly completed full season doesn't make analytical sense to me.

Ummmmm....

BTW…   Over his last 5 NHL games this year, Alex Ovechkin scored 2 goals as did Jiri Tlusty.

GOALS IN LAST 5 GAMES

Ovechkin -  2

Tlusty   -  2

So I guess Tlusty will "battle" Ovechkin for the NHL's #1 Goal Scorer next season! 

:thumbsup2:

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Because something is not 100% guaranteed, that hardly makes it a “battle” IMO.

A “battle” in this context implies something that is essentially 50-50 when predicting the outcome.

You yourself said, “I expect Khudobin to be our starter once the season starts,” --- that hardly sounds like a “battle” to me.

Taking stats for 5 games when we have a freshly completed full season doesn't make analytical sense to me.Ummmmm....

BTW…   Over his last 5 NHL games this year, Alex Ovechkin scored 2 goals as did Jiri Tlusty.GOALS IN LAST 5 GAMES

Ovechkin -  2

Tlusty   -  2

So I guess Tlusty will "battle" Ovechkin for the NHL's #1 Goal Scorer next season! 

:thumbsup2:

I'm on the trade Cam train but just to argue your last point...Tlusty was never an elite goal scorer. Ward has been an elite goalie in the past. That's the difference. But yes, I agree we can't base a decision off of 5 games.

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I'm on the trade Cam train but just to argue your last point...Tlusty was never an elite goal scorer. Ward has been an elite goalie in the past. That's the difference. But yes, I agree we can't base a decision off of 5 games.

Full agree... except:  Cam has NEVER been a consistent elite (top 5 regular season) NHL goalie. Never!

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Forslund did into more detail regarding Cam ....     He said the backup goalie is a little different in today's game than it used to be....  

Teams aren't throwing their starter out there for 60+ games each season anymore.

It's more important now to have 2 consistently solid goalies rather than 1 stud and a wildcard backup.

Again, you cant take FORSLUND as gospel on all his clear "PR" type comments...

 

Maybe John's "insight" about why using a GOALIE TANDEM is now the way to go 

never made it to this year's PLAYOFF teams like... 

 
COL - Varlamov       60+ games
DAL - Lehtonen     65 games
SJ - Antti Niemi     60+ games
PIT - Fleury         60+ games
TB - big Ben Bishop  60+ games
BOS - Tuukka Rask    58 games
MTL - Price          59 games
BHAWKS - Crawford    59 games
CB -  Bobrovsky     58 games
PHILLY - Mason       60+ games
NYR -  Lundqvist     60+ games
ETC...   

Just sayin, be careful with assuming Tripp and John always have the facts.

 
 

 

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Again, you cant take FORSLUND as gospel on all his clear "PR" type comments...

 

Maybe John's "insight" about why using a GOALIE TANDEM is now the way to go 

never made it to this year's PLAYOFF teams like... 

 
COL - Varlamov       60+ games
DAL - Lehtonen     65 games
SJ - Antti Niemi     60+ games
PIT - Fleury         60+ games
TB - big Ben Bishop  60+ games
BOS - Tuukka Rask    58 games
MTL - Price          59 games
BHAWKS - Crawford    59 games
CB -  Bobrovsky     58 games
PHILLY - Mason       60+ games
NYR -  Lundqvist     60+ games
ETC...   

Just sayin, be careful with assuming Tripp and John always have the facts.

 

You're just preaching to the choir, man.  Like I told you before, I'm just posting what he said. 

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Greg-N-Ral:  Out of curiosity---are you a STH?  I recall in some post you telling us about yourself a little.

But can't recall the particulars.

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If the news of JR moving on is true, then why has it not happened? If true, why drag it out....if you want ticket sales to increase, the get it done. Show some "tweaks".

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Can anybody tell me how Greg feels about Cam Ward? I haven't the slightest clue...

:

It is hard to pin down.

I really do think it is crazy to even talk about it now. It's pretty much out there that they will try to trade him. It's a matter of finding a taker, working out a deal, and getting Cam to agree. Dobby has taken the top spot and Ward wants to be the starter...somewhere. Eating some salary is still doable and makes sense in the right deal. Cam has $6.3 mil due for two years. If the Canes retained $2m, that would put him at a rate that makes a lot more sense for the receiving team. Then sign a backup at a normal backup rate, and that would still free up close to $3m a year for 2 years.

Edited by super_dave_1

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What I do not understand that, if there is to be a change in GM, why isn't he "on board" to help with this year's draft?

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Okay Greg, I'll take the bait.

From 2007 until last year, we rode Cam like a wet mule. I think 70 games a couple of years. With backups like John Graham, Michael Leighton, and Justin Peters. 2 years ago he was injured when his leg was sliced open by a skate blade, proving he is injury prone. Yes, he has also hd groin and back injuries. Then again, your stud goalie also missed 2 1/2 months this year with an injury. But over 7 years, few goalies anywhere have been ridden like Cam. Dobby had a very good season, no doubt, but he played what, 32 or 33 games - a career high. And Cam was pretty good in the 2009 playoffs as well as the Stanley Cup year, so he has a history of rising to the occasion in the playoffs, admittedly in a small sample.

I'd say realistically there could be competition for number 1 next year. I think the Canes' preference is to trade Cam, but absent a decent return, a healthy competition for the starting job will be good for the team. And yes, I think Cam could reclaim the number 1 job. Obviously, I'm not capable of being unbiased.

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I heard a wild rumor today. Since the front office seems inclined to do minor tweeks rather than major changes, Harris Teeter will announce they will be the paper bag sponsor for next season. Anybody who shows a ticket for a Hurricanes game will receive a paper bag suitable for wearing. Eye hole cutouts will be the responsibility of the ticket holder. 

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TheFaulker, thanks for sharing what you heard. I wasn't able to listen, and appreciate your recap.

 

Forslund did into more detail regarding Cam in his radio interview today. I was on my phone earlier so I couldn't type it all out. He said the backup goalie is a little different in today's game than it used to be. Teams aren't throwing their starter out there for 60-70 games each season anymore. It's more important now to have 2 consistently solid goalies rather than 1 stud and a wildcard backup.

 

Interesting, that does seem to be the trend. Fifteen years ago, 17 goalies played 60+ games. Ten years ago, it dropped to 12. Five years ago it was down to 10. And this year, it was a 16+ year low of 8. (NHL.com stats only go back to 97-98.)

Of course, that is something that is going to fluctuate year to year, but even looking at the five year averages (omitting lockout missed/shortened seasons), it is obvious there is a trend in that direction. From 97/98 - 01/02, the average was 17.8 teams with a goalie starting 60+ games. From 02/03 - 07/08, it was 13.0 teams. The last five full seasons, it was 11.6 teams.

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