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Behind the Bench -- Coach Talk

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  I'm not sure I see the situation like you, cclifford10. To my eyes, being in a holding pattern right now doesn't necessarily mean that some coach still on a playoff team is a shoe-in. Couldn't it mean that RF is simply delaying to put that guy in the mix, so as to be thorough in his search, not necessarily that he is "the one"?

 

Fair enough!  I was just thinking that with other teams still looking for coaches, it might be best to move on one if you were comfortable with the selection.  I know it was reported that we have interviewed three candidates.  I would think out of those three, RF knows which one he likes best.  It has also been reported that we intend to interview about three more candidates.  It seems a bit dangerous to wait in case that first pick is already gone. It could also be that we have made offers that have not been accepted.  I guess it is was a big assumption on my part that we are waiting at all.

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With all the Ulf chatter on the net tabbing him as the leading candidate for the coaching job I was relieved to see Aaron Ward tweet in effect that narrowing the field to one was premature. Indication is Ulf may be in the mix but only one of several.

 

I also read Francis said he would rather get it right then get it done fast. This probable isn't what PK meant when he said Hurricane fans needed to be more patient but waiting is indeed becoming the hardest part.

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So, while the waiting is the hardest part, the speculating is the part we do. 

 

So, I'm mixing multiple inputs and coming up with a name.

 

1. We seem to be taking our time, possibly waiting on someone. 

2. We want someone with some NHL head coach experience.

3. Listening to XM, they were talking about how LA plays. Straight lines, hard to play against, guys in front of both nets, "the right way".

4. We want a guy who would not be expensive.

5. Everybody wants someone from a winning "culture" and organ-eye-zation. 

6. Like a guy who has won at several levels.

7. Stealing Coastal's technique of putting a picture out there.

 

225px-Davis_Payne_HC_St_Louis_Blues.jpg

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

 

 

Lots of winning in this guy's coaching history. Not sure why St. Louis let him go.

 

Not saying he's the guy, just throwing it out there.

Edited by remkin

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Bear with me as I draw from the NFL and the NY Giants to explain a point.  If you don't want to, just page down.

 

NY Giants problem was a culture issue.  Lack of discipline and effort was a basic issue.  Talent was there.  Coaching staff was player friendly.

 

The hire was Tom Coughlin, the current authoritarian icon of the league.  The players were kicking and screaming in agony with this guy, but the point was to recapture the discipline, recapture the work ethic, and he did that.

 

Something strange then happened.  The coach who couldn't win it all won 2 superbowls.  The coach who was likely to be an interim throwaway ended up being able to win it all, with talent being at an acceptable level, and being able to change the culture.  But the point is simple... even if they didn't win, he accomplished something that was needed desperately, the culture change.  The superbowls were gravy.

 

For this reason, I think I have decided I want Dineen.  I found this post-game interesting: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wXRgEpzYs4#t=17

 

Why?  The strict no-diving policy, and the comments about winning respect of the league.  This is an ethic we need to instill in our guys. 

 

I don't accept that he is a terrible coach.  I accept that the Panthers are a terrible organization.  Borrowing from the NFL again, blaming Florida on Dineen is like blaming Cleveland on Belechick.  Belechick with talent was a heckuva lot better.

 

One more on Dineen... I hated him when the US women played Canada, truly hated him.  He masterfully coached the Canadian women to out-physical the speedier more talented American squad, and it worked.  I have found I only really get mad at an opposing coach when he is great and sticking it to my team.  He did a lot better when he had a talented squad to work with, and he was able to cipher out exactly how to use them.  Remember, Canada had a coach for this team, decided that they could not beat the US with him, and made the move to Dineen late as "the guy" to turn it around in short order.  And he did.

 

Finally, it doesn't have to be Dineen, but it needs to be Dineen-like.  Whoever it is, change the culture above all else.  That is the most important thing with this hire.  If we end up throwing the guy away after 2 or 3 years because they may not be the best X's and O's guy or some other issue, so be it, but make sure that we get the culture to change.

Edited by hag65

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Finally, it doesn't have to be Dineen, but it needs to be Dineen-like.  Whoever it is, change the culture above all else.  That is the most important thing with this hire.  If we end up throwing the guy away after 2 or 3 years because they may not be the best X's and O's guy or some other issue, so be it, but make sure that we get the culture to change.

 

^Somebody gets it.  Well said hag.

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You make a good case for Dineen or Dineen like. I have thought from the beginning he was a front runner and perhaps still is. Yet we haven't named him. Whoever we hire will indeed need to change the culture. When we do make a choice it should give us a clue into the Ron Francis philosophy for this team. Until then we have very little in the way of clues to go on.

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I for one am completely on board with Kevin Dineen, and like hag, coastal as well as OBXer, I think he brings the ethics and competitive drive that needs to instilled into this team. I'd even go further and declare that I've been a fan of his ever since he started with Florida. Guess that I'm just sentimental like that, and that's what drives me to admire Manny also!!

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As most of you have posted, the new coach needs to come in and 1). get respect from the team, and 2). make sure they give their all!

 

In my watching of the Kings and Blackhawks, these two teams are masters of passing and receiving passes. The Canes have a lot to learn in this area.  We are constantly throwing the puck up the ice hoping someone is there to get it.  Passes are out of reach or behind the skaters, and what's with the constant dumping of the puck?

 

The new coach needs to get this team back to basics and work them like Herb Brooks did in the "Miracle!"  These guys make a ton on money to play a game.  It's time to get physical, it's time to get back into enjoying the game, and it's time to show heart...like Manny and Gerbe!

 

I just hope Francis has the same thoughts in mind!!!

 

GO CANES!!

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Well Trotz is off the board.  Proven coach with strong defensive strategies could have made a real impact here.  Dineen or Samualson will be good selections but our greatest need is someone who can teach these kids to play some real D.  RF needs to crap or get off the pot soon otherwise he risks looking like an indecisive GM.  Analysis Paralysis!

Edited by CanesIn6

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Well Trotz is off the board.  Proven coach with strong defensive strategies could have made a real impact here.  Dineen or Samualson will be good selections but our greatest need is someone who can teach these kids to play some real D.  RF needs to crap or get off the pot soon otherwise he risks looking like an indecisive GM.  Analysis Paralysis!

 

Glass half full vs. Glass have empty!  Just because he's taking his time could mean he is carefully interviewing each person and rechecking his list.  I am giving RF the "benefit of the doubt" that he just wants to make the right decision first time around.  

Edited by Caniac5

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. . .

In my watching of the Kings and Blackhawks, these two teams are masters of passing and receiving passes. The Canes have a lot to learn in this area.  We are constantly throwing the puck up the ice hoping someone is there to get it.  Passes are out of reach or behind the skaters, and what's with the constant dumping of the puck?. . .

I thought this was a bigger problem last year even than a lack of physicality (except in front of the net at both ends, which I thought was a pretty big problem).  I seem to recall poor passing as more of a reason we couldn't always clear the puck than being out-muscled and was surprised that no one brought it up till now.

Edited by LakeLivin

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I thought this was a bigger problem last year even than a lack of physicality (except in front of the net at both ends).  I seem to recall poor passing as more of a reason we couldn't always clear the puck than being out-muscled and was surprised that no one brought it up till now.

 

It's so weird but passing has been a problem for this team for a long time.  Even in the cup year, our passing was average, and we lost all of our best passers from that year, Stillman, Whitney, Williams, Brindy...  I can't explain it but I have been complaining about the passing since Stillman left.  It just makes no sense that it never gets better, you would have thought we would have "lucked" our way into better passing by now just by personnel turnover.  I mean, passing fundamentals are taught when yiu are 4 years old, how can they need to be taught this at this stage of their careers?

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Lakelivin and hag65...it's nice to see others have noticed this as well!  Maybe RF has wondered the same thing and is looking to improve in the area as well!

 

Fingers crossed but not holding my breath!!

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On the passing, we don't really have a pure elite playmaker either. Jussi was pretty crafty at that, as was Stillman. I think Lindholm has it in him and it might be a part of why JR drafted him. Semin can make sweet passes, but doesn't tend to rack up the huge assist numbers, though he did for a couple of years 08-10. 

 

Skinner is a pure goal scorer. Eric puts up assists and is a deceptively ok passer, but not elite. Jordan, not as good as Eric, but actually quietly J. just missed top 90 in assists. But I think he can do better. But it would be good to get an elite playmaker in here. A 40 assist passing type. 

 

I know passing includes the d zone and center ice too, but just saying...

 

Looking at the draft, at number 7, we could get a playmaker, but, not that and size probably. 

 

On D: Sekera and Faulk are decent passers, and Murphy and JML pretty good. After that....

 

Anyway....good point about improving the passing. I think it was hot and cold, like the team at times. 

Edited by remkin

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Hags being a  Ny Giant  fan for 50 plus years,  Coughlin was hated at first....If he said be there at 130 for mtg, he really  meant  1:15.. The team hated him, but then Strahan and some of the others said ok, lets go with it, 2   super bowls later, i guess it worked.. He was mellowed out, but still demands discipline.... I think Ulfie or Dineen will bring that type of work effort to Raleigh... jmo..  Great example   Hags!

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Well, Ulfie has  some  time before he comes here,  if its Dineen as  HC, wouldnt he pick  Ulfie as  assistant, or vice versa??

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Well, Ulfie has  some  time before he comes here,  if its Dineen as  HC, wouldnt he pick  Ulfie as  assistant, or vice versa??

 

I'm not sure why he would leave his job as assistant for Stanley Cup finals team to be an assistant on a team that hasn't been to the playoffs since...

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Whoever the coach is he needs to be the alpha male.  When E. Staal pulls one of his 8-10 game disapperaring acts like he regularly does 2-3 times a season then sit him in the press box to 'help' him understand what consistency means.  Correct me if I am wrong but I read the Canes owe him $18 million over the next two years?!  At 9 million a year thats $109,000 a game.  Based on that number he would make as much as Gerb's did ($550k) this past year in just 5 games.

 

We definately need a coach calling his own shots and is willing to call out any player no matter the name on his sweater. 

Edited by caniac1234

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I'm not sure why he would leave his job as assistant for Stanley Cup finals team to be an assistant on a team that hasn't been to the playoffs since...

Every assistant wants to be a head coach, at some point... Now, if Dineen is named, i see your point..

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We are constantly throwing the puck up the ice hoping someone is there to get it.  Passes are out of reach or behind the skaters, and what's with the constant dumping of the puck?

 

The new coach needs to get this team back to basics and work them like Herb Brooks did in the "Miracle!"  

 

I tried to quote somebody then edit it and lost the quote. The above is what they wrote...Below is my response:

 

Every player in the NHL can "pass" the puck and move the puck. Dumping and chasing is simply a philosophy (system), not an inability to move the puck up the ice. Every system relies on a good first pass out of the defensive zone, then teams either "headman" the puck (carry it up the ice by passing and skate the puck into the zone), or they gain the red line and dump and chase the puck. The Canes have been a dump and chase team for a while due to their speed. It isn't pretty but it suits our team's speed. The problem is you also have to have a gritty team to win those dump and chase battles on the boards to gain possession. We're lacking that. We had a coach (Muller) that played a dump and chase system and then expected guys like Skinner and a young Lindholm to go into the corners and beat guys like Joel Ward and Jason Chimera (Capitals) in a puck battle. That was an actual line matchup ON HOME ICE that Muller put together toward the end of the season! That's a men versus boys battle every time! The new coach and GM should add a few players to the team with the ability to win those battles or stop the "dump, chase and win the boards" system.

Edited by CincoNuwaywaay

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Muller was a complete idiot with line match-ups, particularly at home.  That alone got him fired, and should have.  IMO, he wasn't the brightest bulb in the box.  I can't tell you how many times I embarrassed Mrs. Coastal yelling at Muller for his inept decisions, particularly late in games.

 

I really hope we hire a guy that's a strategist in-game.  I'm tired of yelling at coaches.

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Muller was a complete idiot with line match-ups, particularly at home.  That alone got him fired, and should have.  IMO, he wasn't the brightest bulb in the box.  I can't tell you how many times I embarrassed Mrs. Coastal yelling at Muller for his inept decisions, particularly late in games.

 

I really hope we hire a guy that's a strategist in-game.  I'm tired of yelling at coaches.

 

RF's comments about coaching candidates having line proposals during the interview leads me to believe that he saw things the same way as you, and that hiring a superior strategist is one of his top priorities!

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Whoever the coach is he needs to be the alpha male.  When E. Staal pulls one of his 8-10 game disapperaring acts like he regularly does 2-3 times a season then sit him in the press box to 'help' him understand what consistency means.  Correct me if I am wrong but I read the Canes owe him $18 million over the next two years?!  At 9 million a year thats $109,000 a game.  Based on that number he would make as much as Gerb's did ($550k) this past year in just 5 games.

 

We definately need a coach calling his own shots and is willing to call out any player no matter the name on his sweater. 

 

AMEN! I have been saying this same thing for years now. It would be nice if they could take pay away for those that obviously don't give their all!  $109,000 a game is just CRAZY, even if you are that good!...LOL!   :twilight-zone:

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Something needs to be done to fix the Canes’ anemic offense.   Being in the bottom of the league in this category is not going to get a team in the post season

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Something needs to be done to fix the Canes’ anemic offense.   Being in the bottom of the league in this category is not going to get a team in the post season

I expect an immediate boost in offense next year from Semin regardless of coach or scheme. When your best offensive player plays a season with a wrist injury that requires surgery, it's gotta hurt (and not just Semin's numbers, but probably the others on his line as well.)

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