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My main point was the salary of our top four forwards at 26,600,000. Yes,we are not getting our bang for our buck! Last year we paid $292,307.00 per goal for a non playoff team. 

Oh, I agree with you. 

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Current Vegas odds on the Canes hoisting the Cup next year are the 4th worst in the league at 65/1. Rem is going to be selling island time on Groupon.

The year we won the cup they were 100/1 t the start of the season................I put $20 on them!!

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This thread is pinned but post-less for a while, so I'll put this here:

 

This is the clear and obvious theme for Francis to start this year. Francis strongly implied that he had a clear idea what was wrong with this team. His actions to this point have said one clear thing:

 

"Mainly it was coaching."

 

Some wanted or expected some major player changes. I have postulated (and still think) that the deals were not there (which locked RF this current strategy), but the actions are also saying that RF's plan is:

 

"Change out all the coaches, draft for the long term and whatever you do, make sure you put almost exactly the same players on the ice as last year."

 

If Francis does not believe in the very team that JR put together he has an odd way of showing it, or is very cynical. 

 

Total new additions on one way contracts that were not on this team at any point last year:

 

1. McClemment. 4th line

2. Malone. 4th line

 

That is all.

 

Free agents or pending FA signed:

 

Tlusty, Bellemore, Boychuk, Gerbe, Hainsey, Gleason (yes, he was technically on a different team last year).

 

Significant trades:

 

None.

 

 

Sure, Francis could still have a move up his sleeve, but recent quotes that we are "unlikely" to anything like trade or sign more UFA, suggest that the plan is to stand remarkably pat. As I've said before: Don't just do something...stand there. 

 

So, either by design or default Francis appears to be creating almost a perfectly controlled experiment to clearly answer the question: did this team that JR put together fail almost entirely due to coaching and bad luck (injuries, etc)? Yes or No. 

 

Keep the team almost exactly the same. Change all coaches. See what happens.

 

A lot of seasoned board members seem pretty good w/ this plan of "first do no harm". Don't make it worse, and whatever you do don't add any bad contracts! Though it seems most taking this position are not thinking it will work any time soon, but eventually. 

 

 

Me? I think giving this team one more shot is the least of the bad choices, and I still believe that we have the horses to make the playoffs. But it is a bit hard to watch us stand so completely idle in terms of adding even one significant new piece to the mix. Still, w/ a brand new GM, not panicking and rushing into bad deals is definitely better. But one more FA would have been nice. 

 

I'm thinking that if the team starts living up to it's talent level and wins come, that a further move will be made to bolster the team, and if this team goes the other way, well hardly anyone will blame Francis for blowing it up. 

 

But for now.....we wait....and hope that these guys finally put it together, because I, for one, am not in the mood for a 3-5 year rebuild.

 

Edited by remkin

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Francis may have done the best he could to improve the team given budget constraints and unmovable contracts. He did improve the fourth line (on paper anyway) and that needed to be done. The PK should be better. The defense is a question mark but should be better then last year. The top 9 wasn't addressed so it will be up to the players to prove they can be better.

 

I suspect deals will be easier to make as the season wears on and off-season moves should be easier as a couple of the big contracts will be closer to ending. The one-year deals can be moved or we can walk away depending on circumstance. I think this is a transition year even if the team plays well.

 

One of the best moves Francis made was to make sure Brindy was on the coaching staff. Francis may be the face of the franchise but Brindy is its heart and soul. I don't think anyone can question his leadership or dedication. If they do they don't belong on the team.

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Remkin: I'm in almost complete agreement with most of your thoughts.  I like RF giving the team another chance under Peters.  They clearly underperformed for the talent they have but it wasn't due to a lack of effort imo (which might have been cause to break up some of the main pieces in my book).  But I also would have loved to see the organization add just one more piece. Here's my guess as to the reasoning behind some of the Canes moves this offseason:

  • We'll sign McClement to replace Malhotra.  Given Manny's face-off skills and the intangibles he brought, I'm not 100% sure McClement > Malhotra.  I guess we'll see.
  • Boychuk/ Terry will replace (I know, different positions) Loktionov,  I believe Lokti's off season injury dictated this move.  While I'd have liked to see a healthy Lokti back, I'm glad that the 2 Checkers will likely get a real chance with the Canes. And I'd count their apparent pre-season "promotion" as essentially being additional acquisitions. Yeah, they were "available" last season, but it was clear that they weren't part of the teams plans for the year.
  • Malone will replace the other front line free agents we let go (Bowman, Djorak).  Although I don't expect much skill wise out of Malone, at least he brings some of the size and physicality we all agree we need.
  • Gleason: relatively low risk, low cost depth addition with potential high upside if he returns to previous form. An additional wild thought: Gleason's concussion in preseason last year was severe enough to keep him out for over a month.  I wonder if that might have effected his play the rest of the season (either physically or subconsciously)?  Granted, this is a long shot, but if so, and if he's back to pre-concussion form, he could make quite a difference this year.

As OBX pointed out, we don't know if RF didn't try to add any additional pieces, tried but couldn't due to various circumstances,  or PK said "not one penny more".

 

Having said all that, if a couple of things break right this year I think we could shock the league.  I think the big guns will return to form.. I think Peters will make a big difference.  And I think our "core" D should be fairly solid.  Here are some of the other factors that I think we'd need to break our way for us to have a surprisingly successful season.

  • Ward returning to previous years form and Khudini maintaining the form he showed last year.  Not many teams have two goalies that can steal games for them.
  • Some combination of Boychuk, Terry, and Murphy breaking through this year.
  • No surplus of injuries this year.  They're going to happen, but it would be nice if we came out on the "less than average" side this year rather than the "more than average" side.

Given the expectation level, I believe this could turn out to be a very exciting year for Canes hockey. :groupwave:

Edited by LakeLivin

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Lake,

 

We are generally in agreement. I think Boychuk/Terry/McClemment and Malone are at best a lateral move from Loktionov/Mallhotra/Bowman. But who knows? Boychuk has more upside than all of them if he could find it...

 

Gleason, as I've posted elsewhere, I agree is a low risk move that at least upgrades our depth.

 

But by far this year will ride on certain guys playing up to their potential and certain other guys finding the next level.

 

We've detailed and all know who the guys who need to get back to their level are, but some may be underapreciating the impact that a few newer guys can have if they keep on their planned growth path:

 

Lindholm. He can become a very productive second liner this year.

Murphy: oh yes, his offensive upside is game changing. The defensive side normall takes a while, but if he makes strides here great.

Faulk: I've put it elswhere, but as good as he is, he is still on the incline.

 

Personally I am more hopeful than some on Boychuk and maybe even Terry, but those three guys I'm confident will step up and in doing so improve the team.

Edited by remkin

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I do not think Karmanos was willing to open his wallet for any acquisitions except the fourth line changes noted by Remkin. He actually did open his wallet for JR for J, Semin and to re-up Faulk. For the $$ being paid, I don't think there were any game changers out there, and I agree with Remkin that PK wants to see what he can get from the $$ he already spent with a different system, different coaching and new managementNot an unreasonable position. We have our share of well paid players. The ball is in their court to earn their checks. I lost confidence in Muller during the strike season collapse, and am fine giving these players one last chance with a new staff. Eric at least (and Cam if it matters) has to know that he is looking at a big salary cut in 2 years if he does not significantly raise his production and leadership. Ifwe are no better this season, I think major changes are coming. Until I see evidence otherwise, I choose to be optimistic that we can have a good season. The handwriting should be on the wall by mid to late November one way or another.

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Canes were picked to finish dead last in 2005/06 by all the 'experts.' 

 

Not even thinking about the Stanley Cup.  Baqsed on how garbage this team has been last 5 years, realistic goal this season should be to make the playoffs and make it into the 2nd round. That would be a quantum step for this franchise...

 

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/archive/index.php/t-162078.html

 

Odds from 2006. So epic.

 

Didn't mean to respond to such an old post, but I didn't even notice the date. Work has kept me pretty busy and away from the boards for the most part. It's probably for the best, the summer usually drags on when I'm sitting here waiting for the season to start.

Edited by Gejustin

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Remkin: I'm in almost complete agreement with most of your thoughts.  I like RF giving the team another chance under Peters.  They clearly underperformed for the talent they have but it wasn't due to a lack of effort imo (which might have been cause to break up some of the main pieces in my book).  But I also would have loved to see the organization add just one more piece. Here's my guess as to the reasoning behind some of the Canes moves this offseason:

  • We'll sign McClement to replace Malhotra.  Given Manny's face-off skills and the intangibles he brought, I'm not 100% sure McClement > Malhotra.  I guess we'll see.
  • Boychuk/ Terry will replace (I know, different positions) Loktionov,  I believe Lokti's off season injury dictated this move.  While I'd have liked to see a healthy Lokti back, I'm glad that the 2 Checkers will likely get a real chance with the Canes. And I'd count their apparent pre-season "promotion" as essentially being additional acquisitions. Yeah, they were "available" last season, but it was clear that they weren't part of the teams plans for the year.
  • Malone will replace the other front line free agents we let go (Bowman, Djorak).  Although I don't expect much skill wise out of Malone, at least he brings some of the size and physicality we all agree we need.
  • Gleason: relatively low risk, low cost depth addition with potential high upside if he returns to previous form. An additional wild thought: Gleason's concussion in preseason last year was severe enough to keep him out for over a month.  I wonder if that might have effected his play the rest of the season (either physically or subconsciously)?  Granted, this is a long shot, but if so, and if he's back to pre-concussion form, he could make quite a difference this year.

As OBX pointed out, we don't know if RF didn't try to add any additional pieces, tried but couldn't due to various circumstances,  or PK said "not one penny more".

 

Having said all that, if a couple of things break right this year I think we could shock the league.  I think the big guns will return to form.. I think Peters will make a big difference.  And I think our "core" D should be fairly solid.  Here are some of the other factors that I think we'd need to break our way for us to have a surprisingly successful season.

  • Ward returning to previous years form and Khudini maintaining the form he showed last year.  Not many teams have two goalies that can steal games for them.
  • Some combination of Boychuk, Terry, and Murphy breaking through this year.
  • No surplus of injuries this year.  They're going to happen, but it would be nice if we came out on the "less than average" side this year rather than the "more than average" side.

Given the expectation level, I believe this could turn out to be a very exciting year for Canes hockey. :groupwave:

Also, Eric, Sasha and Tlusty regaining their lockout year form.  If 80+% of these happen, we could make the playoffs.

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Also, Eric, Sasha and Tlusty regaining their lockout year form.  If 80+% of these happen, we could make the playoffs.

db- I could be wrong, but I believe this stands a good enough chance of happening (barring further injuries) that I didn't even put it in my "variables" list ("I think the big guns will return to form").  Although I'm not sure Tlusty will ever match his post-lockout year, I think he'll be a lot more productive this season than last with a healthy E and Semin beside him.     

 

edit: my other "expectation", that to many others (probably most others) is a big variable, is that JML is a solid presence on the 2nd line with Hainsey. 

Edited by LakeLivin

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The trade deadline and off season is going to be a real test for PK/RF/BP. We have Jiri Tlusty $2,950,000, Jay McClement $1,000,000, Pat Dwyer $900,000, Andrej Sekera $2,750,000, Brett Bellemore $600,000,00 Tim Gleason $1,200,000, as UFA's after this year and Zach Boychuk $600,000,Chris Terry $600,000, Riley Nash $575,000, Andrej Nestrasil $550,000 as RFA's. The Semin dilema could really tie our hands as far as moves go. Nasher should see a huge increase next year and I believe we will try to retain him. I have a feeling that Sekera will test the market unless we resign him before this season ends.

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I have a feeling that Sekera will test the market unless we resign him before this season ends.

...or we trade him before then, which we should do if we don't sign him prior to the deadline.

Edited by cclifford10

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HockeyNews has an interesting acticle about the 'Yotes, who are are struggling in goal, on defense and in scoring. Even though GM Don Maloney isn’t preparing for a fire sale, he is admitting that he won't wait until March 2 to make the changes his club needs.

 

With 7-8 teams not even close to get a wiff of the playoffs and a comment from Francis, that he'll trade/get at least something for any Cane not figuring into the future, makes me think that there is quite a bit going on already behind scenes.  

 

Then there is Mo and the Jets. They are ranked 5th in the west and just lost Evander Kane for up to 8 weeks apparently with a broken foot. If GM Cheveldayoff wants to stay in the mix he'll end up looking for help sooner rather than later.

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Does everyone forget the 13  one goal losses? Im not saying we are a playoff team, but win half of those games, we are ahead of the bruins :) Tough break for Kane..

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A healthy J and Semin we don't win half those? But that discussion just leads nowhere fun.

 

As to trades now. Tlusty maybe. Ward if someone really wants to overpay. Really not thinking E is ready to move quite yet. Sekera? Yes if he wants out. No if not.

 

If someone like Winnepeg feels it slipping away, maybe? What would it take to get Kane? He's out for a while, but we don't care.

 

Still think mid-end January more likely, but if the deal is there...

Edited by remkin

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As to trades now. Tlusty maybe. Ward if someone really wants to overpay. Really not thinking E is ready to move quite yet. Sekera? Yes if he wants out. No if not.

 

If someone like Winnepeg feels it slipping away, maybe? What would it take to get Kane? He's out for a while, but we don't care.

 

Still think mid-end January more likely, but if the deal is there...

 

Hmm, that's interesting.  Winnipeg is currently in a wild card spot but were already depleted on the blue line due to injuries, and now Kane.  So presumably they want help NOW.  Tlusty plus what?  I don't think Gleason or Liles would do it.  Tlusty plus Sekera (if RF has a negative feeling about his ability to re-sign him) for Kane plus something?  Do we want to commit to paying Kane $6m/ year for the next 3.5 years?  He's only 23, so his best should be yet to come, but still . . .

 

Wonder what  the longer term plan is for our goalies?  I suspect we're not going to pay both Cam and Kudo next season (although I'd love to have 'em both).  Tlusty and Dobby (who I'm sure the Peg could move for a decent d-man) for Kane?  Given that Kane is out for a while, that would sure help us as far as SRM if we're going in that direction. 

Edited by LakeLivin

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A healthy J and Semin we don't win half those? But that discussion just leads nowhere fun.

 

As to trades now. Tlusty maybe. Ward if someone really wants to overpay. Really not thinking E is ready to move quite yet. Sekera? Yes if he wants out. No if not.

 

If someone like Winnepeg feels it slipping away, maybe? What would it take to get Kane? He's out for a while, but we don't care.

 

Still think mid-end January more likely, but if the deal is there...

 

This brings me back to my comment about future considerations when we did the Harrison deal. I really believe there is another shoe to drop here, and I am hoping it is Byfuglien for Tlusty. Dustin has been forced to play forward there, he does not want to, and a D-man of his caliber, size and take-no-*edit* mindset is what this franchise has needed for, oh, about 10 years (see Mike Commodore). But Kane would be fine with me, too, lord knows we could use a little of this up front:

AS7D3630a_Kane_Cropped_72ppi.jpg

 

On the other side of things, I hope we don't get into too deep a trading partnership with Wpeg, partly because until we forsake the Mo mindset completely we will continue to have Mo-grade success (at best), but mostly because RF has an opportunity here, with the talent we have available for trade, to build something that produces long-term success from the ground up. We need to do it, we need to stop hoping from one October to the next that things will be different this season in spite of doing the same things we've always done.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Francis has some big decisions to make and make soon. It sounds like he has already decided on the UFA on the team he is trying to sign. The indication seems to be if they don't come to terms they will be gone. He also needs to decide if the Staals are the core to build around. I suspect they are.

 

We haven't seen a major move yet but it needs to happen soon.

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A trade for Byfuglien would be exactly what this team needs and would be a huge deal. As much as I was a proponent of going after Kane last year I would pass on him now. The more I look at Kane I think he has a lot of talent but doesn't bring it all the time. I think he is not a guy we want in our locker room. He is a bit of a head case and with the size of his contract he may turn into a sequel called Semin 2.0.

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A trade for Byfuglien would be exactly what this team needs and would be a huge deal. As much as I was a proponent of going after Kane last year I would pass on him now. The more I look at Kane I think he has a lot of talent but doesn't bring it all the time. I think he is not a guy we want in our locker room. He is a bit of a head case and with the size of his contract he may turn into a sequel called Semin 2.0.

That's been the slam on Kane and if I recall correctly (at my age, who the heck knows!), the scuttlebutt on NHL Radio before the season started was that he is unhappy in Winnipeg. (Something only those who have wintered in Winnipeg can truly appreciate.)

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Kane might be a bit of a gamble in the attitude dept. but I've also heard that he might just need to mature some. The guy is a huge, potential upside guy. Some say 40 goals. I personally believe that Semin has played on a gimpy wrist for two years, but I get the point. We do need our top guys producing. But adding Kane to the core up front would bring a whole lot of offense all at once to continue to build around.

 

Get crazy and imagine McDavid and Kane added to our young core...

 

Winnepeg has been rumored to need to move him. Now he is out, and can't help them for weeks.

 

Byfuglien would ben an interesing option. Certainly bring the size.

 

I'm just spitballing here though, kicking the tires as it were. I also like trying to get Yandle from Arizona or Arizona's #1 pick somehow.

Edited by remkin

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When the Kane trade rumors were floating around earlier in the year I was hoping we could pull off a deal. Now after the Semin experience I'm a little gun shy of players with less then stellar reputations. With Kane on the shelf until February at least we won't need to think about it for a awhile

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I'm just spitballing here though, kicking the tires as it were. I also like trying to get Yandle from Arizona or Arizona's #1 pick somehow.

 

Another top 5 pick would be outstanding!  Look at what Stome has done without McDavid!!!

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