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coastal_caniac

Front Office Lounge ... GM Talk

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If nobody from the org views this message board regularly, then they are stupid.  Companies spend thousands of dollars on getting customer feedback through various means.  Here, you get the most direct feedback from your most vocal customers...free.  They shouldn't use our genius ideas to make decisions, but they should stick their toe in the water to check the temperature.

Precisely. If you're in marketing or management in any org that markets to the general public and you are not looking at what your target audience is saying on media you've created, you don't belong in marketing or management.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Well somebody might be watching, but Francis? Are you there Ron? Just give us a sign. Any little sign...

 

Oh, and one more thing. Don't actually do anything based on my posts. If you read my post and think, "Well, I was going to do A, but remkin does make a good point here. You know what? I'm making that trade!"

 

Then read this line: "Step away from the phone."

 

But if you do make the deal. I need to get paid.

Edited by remkin

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Probably won't be a big paycheck since the winnings will need to be split among the regulars here. :lol:

 

I will gladly spit all of my take with anyone who wants it. :grouphug: You definitely get a juicy cut.

 

Now when can I expect that check?

 

Ron? PK? We know you're watching!

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I wonder if this is SSTHM.

 

I still do not think this team is relocating - but if they are, and want empty seats to make the case for doing so, they're doing a heluva job.

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I wonder if this is SSTHM.

 

I still do not think this team is relocating - but if they are, and want empty seats to make the case for doing so, they're doing a heluva job.

 

Once a Karmanos, always a Karmanos.  

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You think we have attendance problems.  Anybody catch the highlights of the Devils game?  The crowd was really scarce there.

True dat, but then again they have a bigger group of STHs, so at least those seats are paid for. With Lou behind the bench for the rest of this season and Stevens set to take the reins next year (and will anyone be surprised if Capt. Kirk and Marty join him behind he bench?) the Devs have a pretty rich history and plenty of population to draw from.

 

Unlike the Canes. 

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I am incredulous as to the genuine stupidity that this disconnected front office group displayed in trotting out increased ticket prices after 6yrs of failed attainment of playoff hockey!! I called my ticket rep and inquired as to how much the per ticket increase this was. Didn't have the inclination to wade into her, as she is just a "victim" of the higher-ups stupidity. Just wonder who in this hierarchy was responsible, as I don't think it is on Waddell since he appears to be involved with sponsorship?

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This was in a discussion about E Staal over in the gameday thread, but it seems more suitable to carry it on here?

 

 

I know earilier when we were bandying around the E to Toronto thing, the offer was allegedly their first, Bosak or Kadri, and a dman for E. Of course Kadri has been a motivation and maturity problem but big and talented, but now that pick is probably #4, which was not known back then. Kadri...well his stock is low, but then he's the kind of guy to this point that is the last thing we need, but if he got thrown in...the skill is there.

 

But oh how fast we could rebuild with the #4 and #3 pick, or even....possibly....no, they'd never, but possibly package them for Eichel or McDavid. Just dreaming really.

 

But yeah, E and Semin seem to be in on the tank.

 

I just wonder how this team is really different and really turns the page w/ Eric as the 9 million dollar captain face of the franchise.

 

 

I've got to belive that Es value has gone down in the time between our earlier discussions and now. Kadri's might have taken a hit as well, but he was a smaller part of the package on the Leafs side. Just speculating, but if we're in discussions with Toronto, I'd guess we're now talking a 2nd rounder as part of that package rather than their 1st round pick.  And that is independent of the fact that the Leafs have slid so far up the draft list, which would have also taken their 1st off of the table. 

 

Stil, Toronto seems like the most likely trading partner for E because they're going to need to make big changes. But the situation has gotten so bad, would E still approve a trade there?  What about a more "even up" trade involving Kessel rather than Bozak or Kadri?  Sounds like he could use a new start somewhere else.  He's also come under fire regarding his leadership, and he seems to be pretty disgruntaled with the situation in Toronto.  Salaries are pretty close, although Kessel's contract is several years longer.  He's only 26, so age might be a factor from their perspective . . .  

Edited by LakeLivin

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While I do wonder if the old change of scenery could help both us and him, I would not give him away. A second round pick for him would be absurdly low. 

 

Yes, Eric seems disinterested now, heck, years of losing and being in this place this time of year, etc. But averaging the last two years before this year, Eric is still .9 ppg.

 

Straight up for Kessell? I don't know. Kessel is an offensive dynamo historicaly a ppg player who does not even pretend to have a whiff of interest in playing defense. Add to Skinner...

 

I really really want their #4 pick, but now they seem to be working too hard for it to give it up...

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Agreed, I don't want to give E away either.  But let me play devil's advocate (in this case, Nonis):

 

"The relevent stat isn't Eric's production over the 2 seasons prior to this one.  It's his production over the past 2 seasons including this one.  Because his play suggests that the post-injury E isn't the same player as the pre-injury E."

 

As you say, Leafs are unlikely to give up the #4 pick in this years draft.  So, they start the package with Kadri. He's not a marquis player, but his numbers over the last 2 years aren't that dissimilar to Es, and he's only 24 years old.. Add in either a current NHL d-man or a very good D prospect.  On top of that, what kind of draft pick do you see Leafs adding to the package?  Maybe a 2016 1st rounder? In this year's draft, I think the best they'd do is 2nd round. 

 

All of this is speculation on my part.  The Leafs seem to have shut down their community forums, I'm guessing because the anger that had fans throwing jerseys on the ice spilled over into the forums. . 

Edited by LakeLivin

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If Toronto's first rounder is off the table, then I'm not sure what can be worked out. They are a team that is tanking and in disarray. Sifting through their reckage to find a piece that we really would want of available players....not so sure there's a deal there that makes us better than just keeping Eric.

 

Your point about post injury Eric is fair. It has been hard for him to get that dynamic game changing level you are buying at $9 million per year. If he never gets back to that, well, maybe you put Kessel with Jordan (to cover the defesive side)...the guy can score.

 

The reason for the Toronto talk is because it is thought Eric might wave to go there, but if they don't put their #4 pick out there, I probably pass.

 

Let me ask you one. If Eric would waive would you do Eric for the #4 pick straight up?

Edited by remkin

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"Let me ask you one. If Eric would waive would you do Eric for the #4 pick straight up?"

 

Hmm . . .I don't think so.  McDavid or Eichel, yes.  But I think there's more development risks at that age for the next tier of prospects than I'd be willing to accept.  I think I'd prefer a package with players that have proven thay can play at the NHL level. I have no doubt that Leafs have talent within their organization; sifting through the wreckage they've become might be a great way to take advantage of the franchises mistakes.  I guess it's kind of how you weigh the risks; the chances (and timeframe you're willing to accept) of a kid reaching "star" status vs. the chance that E regains his pre injury form.

 

I think the issue has become much more difficult than when we first started talking about it, though.  We know that most players peak as far as scoring in their mid to late 20s.  That, combined with his post injury performance, makes me a bit leery about E if I'm a GM looking at a trade.  I get your point when you say "If Toronto's first rounder is off the table, then I'm not sure what can be worked out."  But with our contract issues, how does this team move forward?  The only valuable trade pieces we'd consider moving are E and Skinner.  And I have to keep reminding myself that Skinner is still only 22 years old.  Given his enthusiasm (even at this point of the season), and with Peters at the helm, I'm hopeful that he might still become at least defensively responsible.  And if not Toronto, are there other candidates that might give us as much in return and that E will accept going to?  

 

I guess the first question is: at this stage, can we realistically hope to rebuild around E?  If the answer is "no", what are our options at this point?   

Edited by LakeLivin

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"Let me ask you one. If Eric would waive would you do Eric for the #4 pick straight up?"

 

Another way I'm thinking about it: E for #4 straight up implies more of the timeline that comes with a complete tear down and I don't know if the franchise could survive that at this point.  I think we'd be better off picking through the wreckage that is the Leafs if we could get the right pieces back. 

Edited by LakeLivin

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Great "Long Read" today at nhl.com.

 

I was very lucky to see Tyler Myers lead the Rockets at home against the Everett Silvertips in 2008. I am hoping I'll be lucky enough to see him in a Canes' uni next year, and believe that is a deal being worked on. In fact, wasn't it you, Lake, who pointed that out right after the Kane/Myers deal?

Edited by top-shelf-1

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It seems the popular point of view is any players we're talking about coming back from Toronto, along with what we'd send them, need "changes of scenery." But what good does a change of scenery between perennial losers - or what at least are perceived to be at first blush - really offer? At best maybe a 50-50 shot. But if the players involved feel they are going to help a winner - or a club on the cusp of being one again - that shot of excitement, from a playing-with-something-to-prove point of view, improves the odds of the trade working for both clubs, if you ask me.

 

So, E to the Peg for Myers, straight up, no retained salary by either team, provides the latter scenario. If RF can squeeze more out of the Peg in exchange, great. But if not, they've got Eric for a year before he becomes a UFA.

 

It's an easy sell to Mo that we're on the upswing given his long relationship with this org. And though he doesn't pull the trigger, he's more than a coach in the Peg. Like BP, he sees himself as part of management, too. Mo is direct with his players; he's already had a heart to heart with Myers about his play, I'm sure. At least one. A great warm-up for meeting drill sergeant Peters. Eric, on the other hand, could see skating for Mo as a vacation compared to this.

 

I think it all comes down to whether the Peg think next year is "their year," and whether BP feels he has four viable centers without Eric. 

 

Here's hoping so - because he sure does.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Lake, what about this consideration on the subject of "would you take Toronto's #4 straight up for Eric". I know the odds for the 1st pick have been published somewhere but with a #4+whereever we end up (5 or 6),we then would improve the chances for that #1!! Plus we then get rid of a $9 mil lodestone!!

 

Just looked it up. Toronto with the 4th position has 9.5% and ours at 5th has 8.5%, so if that trade gave us their 4th for Eric, that would vault us to  an 18% chance at McDavid!!

Edited by KJUNKANE

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Toronto might have been interested in Eric 5-7 months ago but if their still interested I'd be extremely surprised. If I'm Toronto I'd be asking about Skinner if I'm even asking at all.

Edited by legend-1

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Great "Long Read" today at nhl.com.

 

I was very lucky to see Tyler Myers lead the Rockets at home against the Everett Silvertips in 2008. I am hoping I'll be lucky enough to see him in a Canes' uni next year, and believe that is a deal being worked on. In fact, wasn't it you, Lake, who pointed that out right after the Kane/Myers deal?

 

No, I didn't mention anything about a possible E / Myers deal t_s.

 

Lake, what about this consideration on the subject of "would you take Toronto's #4 straight up for Eric". I know the odds for the 1st pick have been published somewhere but with a #4+whereever we end up (5 or 6),we then would improve the chances for that #1!! Plus we then get rid of a $9 mil lodestone!!

 

Just looked it up. Toronto with the 4th position has 9.5% and ours at 5th has 8.5%, so if that trade gave us their 4th for Eric, that would vault us to  an 18% chance at McDavid!!

 

Well, first off, that still leaves an 82% chance we don't get McDavid, and secondly, I suspect the only way Toronto would offer #4 is conditionally (on them not winning the lottery).

Edited by LakeLivin

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