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All I said is that it was suspect Muller harped so hard on accountability and stopped bench players about a month after he got here. I can't fathom a guy knocking that so hard and then making a hypocrite out of himself a month into having a new team. Especially after the questionable reasons Lavi was fired for not being a yes man then hiring Mr. Yes man himself back.

 

Can I prove it? No, but you'd also have a hard time telling me Muller called all the shots with 100% certainty.

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Other than a slightly better defense this team performed at or about the same as the last several season's. No PP and for long stretches struggling to score / seldom ever a net presence..etc... Difference is this team had some talent, yet same results. Perhaps its time to spend some cash on a proven NHL coach, no more recycled coaches or first timers....

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The present discussion lines bring to mind that sometime back, tho possibly under a different topic heading, I put forth the idea what we might be witnessing on this team is "Anarchy". As I read thru discussions since seasons end, I still feel that there is validity to that thought. I'm using the term to express that there is complete dysfunction throughout the system, from owner to GM to head coach and down to players level. Karmanos' statement speaks for itself, and I'll not elaborate further there.

 

As far as the GM-HC-Players part of this, while there is evidence that Muller has made some changes, I still believe that he has not been allowed "free rein", else why the apparent change from his accountability stance when he 1st came on the scene?

 

Then there is the apparent Staal dynasty, bolstered by bringing Jordan aboard. Don't misunderstand my faith in Eric, because I still believe him to be a person of character, as  I think his entire family to be. However,there is undoubtedly a very fine line between a team leader and being "privileged". Add to that, the unrealistic contract terms that JR felt necessary to extend to him as well as a few others and I see real ego issues that could and may have arisen.

 

Mix in with this atmosphere, the "new kids on the block", and now there is the real potential for fragmentation. Ergo, ANARCHY, where feelings of entitlement could undermine an inexperienced coach's "message".

 

Several years ago, and I'll never forget that Laviolette made a big deal out of "team building" the summer prior to us winning the cup. Since then, although there have been similar endeavors, I don't think they receive nearly as much attention. IMHO, something needs to get this entire organization back on the same page. Whether that means seeking another coach with more experience, getting the GM/HC combination back on the same page, or unifying the players, something has to be done, as I too think that this group is just too good to constantly flounder.

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KJUNCANE-- interesting and well thought out comments above. I think many of those things play into our

current state. I think Muller's instincts were good, coming in. I don't think he anticipated any resistance, from

whatever direction it came, because the internal workings of the organization are subtle.

 

Question then becomes---why does he seem to want to stay another year?  ---and, if the "powers that be"

are doing a complete evaluation of everyone and everything-----will they see what the problem is ? Or are they

too close to, and/or part of it ?

(Kind of like asking the fox to try figure out why the chickens in the hen house are all upset.)

 

I agree our group it too good to continue to flounder .I would like to see some outside people have input.

Do any of the minor partners have a chance to comment--you know--people who are also businessmen,

one would assume, looking at the Canes from the outside?

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guess the rumor of JR stepoing down as GM  of the Canes  falls in the same category of Torts expected to be fired as HC of the Canucks?

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guess the rumor of JR stepoing down as GM  of the Canes  falls in the same category of Torts expected to be fired as HC of the Canucks?

 

Why? What have you heard? I thought an announcement of some sort is for planned next week.

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Why? What have you heard? I thought an announcement of some sort is for planned next week.

 

Isn't "Rumors" just the name of a Fleetwood-Mac record album?

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Isn't "Rumors" just the name of a Fleetwood-Mac record album?

Don't stop, thinking about tomorrow,

Don't stop, it'll soon be here,

It'll be, better than before

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Aren't you the one begging for Mark Howe as GM?  He has no experience of any kind as a GM.  Now, if we could hire him as head scout, I would be all for it. 

 

Being assistant GM doesn't mean he agrees with everything JR does and he might be totally different as a GM. 

He "might be totally different" -- wow that's a really compelling argument for why RF should be the Canes next GM! (we can hope he might be different).

RF should be the next GM because the Canes have done so well since RF has been with the Canes front office....

:dizzy:   :sarcasm: 

Howe (for example) on the other hand has been with a WINNING CULTURE for 15+ years (team has made playoff 23 for 23 years in a row). Learning under Ken Holland vs Jim RutherF ...HUGE HUGE difference!!!  

 

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He "might be totally different" -- wow that's a really compelling argument for why RF should be the Canes next GM! (we can hope he might be different).

RF should be the next GM because the Canes have done so well since RF has been with the Canes front office....

:dizzy:   :sarcasm: 

Howe (for example) on the other hand has been with a WINNING CULTURE for 15+ years (team has made playoff 23 for 23 years in a row). Learning under Ken Holland vs Jim RutherF ...HUGE HUGE difference!!!  

Well, if Karmanos takes his hands off, Ronnie(and the head coach) may get things done.  If PK "tweeks" and interfers like in the past, it will be a case of "Same circus, different clowns" :thumbdown::whiteflag::bangHead:

 

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From a winning culture, literally all you have to defend Mike Howe the scout as a GM.

 

 

He "might be totally different" -- wow that's a really compelling argument for why RF should be the Canes next GM! (we can hope he might be different).

RF should be the next GM because the Canes have done so well since RF has been with the Canes front office....
:dizzy:   :sarcasm: 

Howe (for example) on the other hand has been with a WINNING CULTURE for 15+ years (team has made playoff 23 for 23 years in a row). Learning under Ken Holland vs Jim RutherF ...HUGE HUGE difference!!!  


 

Edited by legend-1

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Looks like the Caps took care of under-performing GM/Coach... Wonder if anyone in Carolina was watching to see how you do it??

 

I would not be surprised if the Canes did the same thing. I don't think JR will pull back and stay, but I would not be surprised if he stays on as President. If he stays on as President, though, then if Francis ends up as GM, and Muller stays, that would end up being a whole lot of shaking and stirring with everything ending up about  the same, especially if no big name players move.

 

Personally if JR stays as President, then there needs to be a major piece changed below him besides Francis. 

 

1. Go with outside GM, let him decide on coach: Muller or new guy.

2. Go with Francis but coach must change OR major trade must happen.

 

Personally I predict:

 

JR stays as President

Francis GM

Muller replaced

All major forwards remain: Staals, Skinner, Semin, Lindholm.

 

I'm not saying that is best, but probably what happens. 

 

JR, Francis, Muller, All forwards remain would be my next guess, but I think that would leave a bunch of fans a bit irked. 

 

I missed it somehow, but I didn't know Francis owns a piece of the team too.

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really do not see how a "tweak: of JR as President and Francis as GM would change anything in the culture of the franchise.   the various coaching changes have lasted for only a season or two.   as long as PK is content with his team, nothing much will change.

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Im guessing the news will be it wasn't JR / Muller or the Staals fault for the season so everyone comes back. We like our Team, They competed well, played the game the "right way" just ran into a few hot back up goalies. A minor tweak in the off season and we are play off bound...

Edited by PamlicoPuck

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Elliote Friedman is suggesting Mike Vellucci, GM and coach of the Plymouth Whalers, will be announced as part of the front office shake-up.

 

Sorry, no link, I heard it on the radio.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Rutherford - President

Francis - GM

Muller _ ?????????????

Just one man's prediction. If this is correct and Muller stays, I don't expect the fan base to be very excited. I'm okay with one and two, but we clearly need a new voice in the locker room. Barry Trotz?

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Trotz hasn't been canned yet, has he? We will need to move a little more swiftly with the Caps in the game now.

Francis certainly will be the GM and I'm gonna guess Dineen if there is a coaching change.

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There are polls at Cardiac Cane, or whatever the site is, about some of our free agents and coaching possibilities.

The results so far suggest overwhelming support to re-sign Bellemore and Loktionov.

There is overwhelming disinterest in re-signing Komisarek.

The poll asked who should be the coach next season, and the choices were something like Muller, Trotz, John Stevens, Guy Boucher, Brett Sutter, and a couple others, some at the minor league level. I think there were 607 votes and Trotz almost had half (50%). I think Stevens was the lowest. I think Muller had about 15%.

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