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Front Office Lounge ... GM Talk

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Perhaps another "unpopular" post by Greg-N-Ral for some,

but I have heard it thrown out for the zillion-th time since he's become GM... 

so I think its time for some fair balance on the statement "Ron Francis is 4th GREATEST...of ALL TIME."

 

Ok you have been warned, buckel up...

 

Ron Francis was a very solid and VERY durable NHL player who had the 

good fortune to play on some great Penguin teams which greatly helped

prop up some of his career stats.

 

All that said, keep in mind, Jeff Skinner (for example)

has already passed Ron Francis for GOALS in a season

(Skinner already has 33, Ronnie NEVER got more than 32).

 

So please lets not say Ronnie was this incredible goal scoring

force like The Great One, Gordie Howe, Phil Esposito, Mario Lemieux

or even as good as Jaromir Jagr, Teemu Selanne, or even Mark Recchi.

 

Due to his longevity, Ronnie does indeed rank 4th all time in points.

And, IMO, he's certainly one of the 400 greatest NHL players (includes goalies, def, and forwards)

of all time, but NOT top 10 material.

 

Bottom line - huge props to Ronnie for his wonderful and very long NHL career.

Go get em Ronnie, we need a super effort from you as our new GM to "fix" not "tweak" things!!!

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Could you quote who said that so they can know who you're debating? I've re-read this topic and no one's even mentioned Ronnie in the past 3 pages and I can't for the life of me find the statement about Ronnie anywhere in this topic unless someone else sees it.

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I wondered the same thing.....where did this come from?

 

Perhaps a bit of this?

From Wikipedia:

"In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtrl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2]extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

Edited by LakeLivin

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Well Lake, I've exhausted my hopes something can be done but it seems obvious that no one really seems to care.  It just goes on and on and on.....and most of the admin staff we have is completely MIA. 

 

The only one who posts with any regularity is OBXer, and its pretty obvious he doesn't really have any powers to do much of anything.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Thank you Lake for interjecting some intelligence into the constant stream of negativity that seems to come from some source. This season, on the heels of too many others, just seems to have all of our fans swimming in a cesspool of negative thoughts, and the rather constant harangue of criticism that a certain poster brings with EVERY post just starts and ends my day on a sour note.

 

Now I know that the frequent reminder we are always offered is to just "click off the post" when one doesn't desire to be drawn into the calculated inflammatory nature of that post, but with the very limited amount of chatter that attends this team during our off seasons, I somehow seem to have the need to glean each and every post I can locate that talks about our team!! Thus, I am rewarded with almost daily renewal of negativity.

 

I for one am looking forward to the changes that the new administration will bring, and, as the norm for the past frustrating playoff seasons, really am anticipating the draft.

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Agree or not I think we have to admit Ron Francis first decision as a GM was decisive. Its one thing to fire a coach and quite another to fire the entire bench staff. He sent a clear message this is his franchise now!.

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Agree or not I think we have to admit Ron Francis first decision as a GM was decisive. Its one thing to fire a coach and quite another to fire the entire bench staff. He sent a clear message this is his franchise now!.

I just hope and trust that RF has a plan in mind as to replacement of this whole sale group. I agree that he's thrown down the gauntlet, so to speak, to the tem, It's my way or the highway!!

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Thank you Lake for interjecting some intelligence into the constant stream of negativity that seems to come from some source. This season, on the heels of too many others, just seems to have all of our fans swimming in a cesspool of negative thoughts, and the rather constant harangue of criticism that a certain poster brings with EVERY post just starts and ends my day on a sour note.

. . .

 

I learned early on in my career at a large corporation that morale is like a freight train.  Regardless of the direction it's headed, the time and "effort" it takes to reverse it is long and proportional to it's current velocity.  Unfortunately, Canes fan morale is traveling at a high speed in the negative direction. :( 

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I just hope and trust that RF has a plan in mind as to replacement of this whole sale group. I agree that he's thrown down the gauntlet, so to speak, to the tem, It's my way or the highway!!

 

I think RF has a plan in mind, my hope is its a good plan. I applaud the Francis move because it was decisive yet hope it isn't his last decisive move. I really don't like that as those who preceded Muller it appears players chased another coach.  I hope Francis has identified this problem and also makes some bold player moves.

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.... yet hope it isn't his last decisive move. I really don't like that as those who preceded Muller it appears players chased another coach.  I hope Francis has identified this problem and also makes some bold player moves.

 

Looking at the players who could have chased more than one coach it kind of comes down to one (maybe two). 

 

Who has the power to chase a coach that has been around long enough to chase more than two coaches? Surprisingly few. 

 

Really Eric and Cam. Cam is pretty widely viewed as on the block. Do you mean Eric?

 

I expect some moves in the bottom 6, and one or two dmen, and if he can find a partner maybe Ward. 

 

I just think that if a brother Staal was on the way out Kirk would have survived at least a little longer.

 

 

I'm postulating that Francis basically said to the Staals, "this is it. Last chance for the Brother's Staal. GM gets three coaches, star player gets three and we won't count Lavi,  but no more. This is it. This year."

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Looking at the players who could have chased more than one coach it kind of comes down to one (maybe two). 

 

Who has the power to chase a coach that has been around long enough to chase more than two coaches? Surprisingly few. 

 

Really Eric and Cam. Cam is pretty widely viewed as on the block. Do you mean Eric?

 

I expect some moves in the bottom 6, and one or two dmen, and if he can find a partner maybe Ward. 

 

I just think that if a brother Staal was on the way out Kirk would have survived at least a little longer.

 

 

I'm postulating that Francis basically said to the Staals, "this is it. Last chance for the Brother's Staal. GM gets three coaches, star player gets three and we won't count Lavi,  but no more. This is it. This year."

 

I'm not sure who the players are but if you listen to exit interviews it became apparent there were some, apparently veterans who didn't buy in. I don't think Francis will put up with a lot of player discontent.

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I'm not sure who the players are but if you listen to exit interviews it became apparent there were some, apparently veterans who didn't buy in. I don't think Francis will put up with a lot of player discontent.

I think you're right.  If I remember correctly, Francis was a little frustrated with players not listening to him when he was running the power play.  Except now RF is in a postion to do something about it.

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Looking at the players who could have chased more than one coach it kind of comes down to one (maybe two). 

 

Who has the power to chase a coach that has been around long enough to chase more than two coaches? Surprisingly few. 

 

Really Eric and Cam. Cam is pretty widely viewed as on the block. Do you mean Eric?

 

I expect some moves in the bottom 6, and one or two dmen, and if he can find a partner maybe Ward. 

 

I just think that if a brother Staal was on the way out Kirk would have survived at least a little longer.

 

 

I'm postulating that Francis basically said to the Staals, "this is it. Last chance for the Brother's Staal. GM gets three coaches, star player gets three and we won't count Lavi,  but no more. This is it. This year."

Remkin, I hope Franchise did read them the riot act yesterday...because at this point, it's what they need to hear.  They also need to hear that whomever he hires will NOT be their friend, and won't cut them any more slack than the 4th liners just because they wear a C/A or are paid 300x more than the lowest paid guy.

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The next coach absolutely has to walk in and be the alpha male. It really seemed at times like we have a group who wants their paycheck and really actually has no interest in having to work extra in the playoffs.

 

Get's back to my theory that Eric and Cam won the cup too early in their careers and they have no hunger to do it again.

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That's what I have trouble figuring out. Those two are the only ones of consequence who have been here long enough to be the problem if it was primarily a player problem. Sure, others may have been drawn in along the way.

 

It really seems that at the end of the day this team will go as far as E. Staal takes us. All that money, bringing in his brother, NTC's x 2, just make it so hard to blow it up. If, as legend, you have postulated, Muller tried to do the acountability thing early and got his nose snapped by JR, that cannot happen again. That new coach has to be told that "you're job is to hold everyone accountable, and if anyone, not only including, but especially Eric Staal, is not getting it done, do what you have to. If he responds poorly, we will blow it up, but you will stay."

 

If I'm Francis I tell E and J and whomever, that we really came close to blowing the team up, but will give it one more try. If the coach is not seeing what he is looking for, it will be blown up early.

 

A couple of times yesterday media types tried to get Francis to answer exactly what holding someone accountable would look like and he side stepped the question. I guess we'll see soon enough.

 

Oddly, despite Eric needing a kick in the pants,  I just realy don't see bringing in a Torts. I would go back to the Lavi well before bringing in the lunatic. Like it or not E. has the big contract and the NTC and now a brother with the same. Just yelling at them and calling them out in the press doesn't work for long. Plus Torts shelf life is that of stale bread. Now someone like Trotz on a fairly long contract could present a realistic picture of: this is our coach for the next 4-5 years minimum. He will stay, players will go.

Edited by remkin

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So I think that the new coach and GM is a signal that Staal squared is getting one more run. My own guess is that Semin, Skinner, and Lindholm are also staying. Personally I keep Tlusty also. 

 

So if we are to get bigger and edgier, it will have to come in the bottom 6. 

 

Gerbe is a high value third liner and I'd hate to see him go if he can be had for third line money, but he is quite a ways from big. 

 

It's a dilemma because if he can be had for third line money, the guy can put up close to second line points. He plays bigger than his body but that isn't saying much. If his points can be replaced for similar money with a gritty type of course, but that might be hard to do.

 

Even if we kept Gerbe and Tlusty, that might leave up to 5 slots that could be filled with some combination of a couple of current guys and some gritty types. 

 

All eyes are on the coaching decision, and then the draft, but picking up a few key guys in low level trades or FA's could make a big difference. Most on this board wanted JR to make one final move to get a gritty, physical guy that could put up nice 2-3rd line points. He never got it done. 

 

Now I'd like two of those guys, and a third that just bangs on the 4th line. Interesting to see if Francis can get that done.

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If true that the players chased the coach out of town, its ironic that such a grossly underachieving team in a nominal hockey market could do that to at least two coaches (Mo 2.0 and Kirkie).  RF has a financial mess on his hands to the extent we may not see that much change here.  JR may have been root cause for the Canes failure the past 5 years.  He rewarded Eric and Cam with way too much money way too early in their careers and just did the same thing with Faulkner a couple months back.  Then he grossly overpaid Semin.  There isn't much money left to go around to round out a quality team next season.

 

I saw a quote from Claude Jullien about why the Hawks beat the Bruins last year.  He said it was because the Hawks 4th line was better than theirs.  Great statement.  Our top two lines are in such disaray and being paid a collective fortune we can't even begin to address the 3rd and 4th line.  Heck were still paying Jussi 900k a year to light it up in Pitt.  And what about Sudsy and how he's playing.  Jordan needs to take some notes...

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Just to be a jerk my post a few posts up is a coach post :D

 

But in all seriousness thanks Whaler and any behind the scenes work that may have been done by others for cleaning up the topics.

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If I remember correctly from before my brief hiatus from the board, Ron Francis will meet with Jeff Daniels this week. I suspect the fate of the coaching staff and/or directional changes for our Chex is on the table. It will be (IMO) another important decision week for our new GM.

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I wonder what effect the GM and coaching changes will have on Boychuk. He is a first round bust by anybody's standards, but I am not sure he ever really got a look in a role that fits his skill set. He smoked the AHL last year and I thought he looked pretty good in his time with the big club. Wasn't he a Francis guy when he was drafted?

Edited by cclifford10

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I'll keep Gerbe. With some added muscle and grit maybe he won't have to be the one standing up for others so much. Also some other the lollipop guild members seem to be doing well on other teams. Rangers and Bruins come to mind now and I'm sure other teams in the league have some too.

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