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Stealth-ch1

Jordan Staal out for 3-4 months, surgery required for broken fibula

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I guess Peters, Francis, et all will have to take a very hard look at what we have here during camp and during exhibition. 

 

I get the not wanting to mortgage the future and in general I'm on board with that. But I am also not ready to start the season with the old, "well there's always Conner McDavid" point of view either. I didn't buy season tickets to watch that degree of awful, especially after 5 years of  no playoffs.

 

I would agree to certain guys and picks being off the table. Do not trade our first round pick. Do not trade: Skinner, Faulk, Sekera, Hainsey*, Lindholm, or Khudobin and I would add Murphy and obviously Fleury.  Personally I keep Semin and E. since they are worth more than their return at this point, and we are not ready to blow up the core just yet. 

 

*unless he brought a dman back in the deal

 

That leaves Nash, Gerbe, Tlusty, Dwyer, Harrison, JML, Boychuk, Gleason, Bellemore, our second round or below pick,  and our prospects not named above. I would hate to see McGinn go. And Rask has looked very good, but if they brought the right guy.....

 

The right guy would be a 2-3 center. A guy that can handle second line, but can also slide back to 3rd line w/ Jordan back. This guy could be a guy w/ only one year left on his contract or more depending on who we gave up.

 

Look, I know that this is not the ideal time to make a move and maybe we just have to start off and see how bad (or surprisingly better than expected) it is. 

 

And consider this. Odds are there will be another injury to the top 6 at some point. Then we go even thinner. 

 

The right move could make a big difference and not every trade mortgages the future. Also, if things do go south and Francis blows it up, he will undoubtably look to pick up more draft picks.

 

 

So far Francis has been a very very deliberate GM, so I'm not betting on any moves now, but the right move could help.

 

 

Edited by remkin

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The right move, if there is one, would be to shore up the defense.  Bellemore-Harrison has already played out to be a complete gong show, Liles and Gleason, well, if you have faith in that..... and Murphy is still a ?.

 

And if Cam can't do something, then collectively, there's the real potential to see another season down the tubes right there.

 

Of course, I'm one of the very few here that beats the defensive drum.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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The right move, if there is one, would be to shore up the defense.  Bellemore-Harrison has already played out to be a complete gong show, Liles and Gleason, well, if you have faith in that..... and Murphy is still a ?.

 

And if Cam can't do something, then collectively, there's the real potential to see another season down the tubes right there.

 

Of course, I'm one of the very few here that beats the defensive drum.

 

The problem is that the Canes have 8 defensmen signed on NHL deals, and at least 3 of them are #7 guys.  Losing JStaal is going to put more of a responsibility on the defense.  I've been holding that drum while you beat it.

 

I think RF doesn't need to panic and make a bad deal.  Any deal made now would be from behind the 8 ball and that never works out.  If a team wants to give away a good player for expired Hardees coupons and run down D-cell batteries, then fine.  Giving up high prospects and higher round draft choices will just set this team back in the future.  Nobody is going to want to take our scraps and give us a JStaal replacement or scoring right winger.  The die has been cast.  We have what we have.

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Well J was a defensive center mostly. So I guess we will miss that defense. (Was typing when SD pointed out the same thing. Great minds and all...)

 

Still, last year putting up points was a significant, arguably the most significant issue. The one thing I see again and again when we put our minor league talent up there is lack of production. Nash/Rask as #2, #3 may find a way to hold it's own defensively, but I wouldn't bet on much production from that tandem. 

 

I guess we didn't get a ton of production from J. but I would have bet on more from him this year. 

 

I would still look at Loktionov and see where his recovery is at. Sure he's a very different player, almost opposite Jordan, but Nash could center a checking line, and Lokti could center and offensive line. The guy was slick and was starting to come on as he got accustomed and most importantly was really helping the PP. And he's a UFA. No trades of scraps. No future-mortgaging. 

 

I would think Liles-Gleason would be a decent 5-6 pairing. 

 

I'm counting on Hainsey/Murphy in 3-4 which may be a mistake, but I'm hoping Murphy's offense will make that work, especially w/ Peters plan to activate the defense.

 

If we make a move on defense, we will need to move a dman out in the process since we have a bunch of them.

 

 

 

Edited by remkin

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I say let our prospects play, and don't rush to make a move.  I don't think we are going to make the playoffs this year even if we had a healthy Jordan.  I would love to eat crow on that, but that's how I feel.  I don't think we should make a move for a short term fix.  Jordan will be back in a few months.  I think we should focus on long term success and producing a consistent contender for the playoffs, and that's going to take a while.  So, if we do make a move, it better be for a player we feel is going to be with us for the next few years, not just a rental.

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Well if we made a trade it would have to be of the lower tiered variety that JR was pretty good at. Not a blockbuster. But a hidden gem type thing. 

 

The more I think about it though, the better Loktionov looks. Rask can always be called up. But Lotkionov is an NHL player, and he is a center and he can probably be had pretty cheap. When J comes back, Nash and Rask and Loktionov can work out who plays where. 

 

The guy is good on the PP, and the new Brindy PP is showing life and J was not great on the PP and a really good PP can really cover up for some weaknesses. He's not a great defensive guy, but I really liked what he showed towards the end of last year. 

 

Dustin Penner is still out there also. Kind of amazing. Wonder if he is just out of shape or what the deal is there. NHL seems to just be taking a giant pass on him.

 

I'd go examine Lotkionov's shoulder.

Edited by remkin

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If Loktionov is recovered, he would be a lot better answer than making a bad trade out of desperation.  If he is ready, I'd like to see this type of move made as an insurance policy, just to shore up things in case somebody else gets dinged.

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What I don't understand is why everyone seems to think RF will make a desperation move. Nothing he has done and nothing in his public demeanor points to Francis as the type of GM that works in a panic mode. I doubt he is going to go out and shop for a top talent but I would put money on the table that he is going out window shopping for a dependable and experienced center that can help fill the gap. I would also bet it will be a player that can finish the season with us when J returns.   

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Well OBXer, there was discussion on this board prior to J's injury about pursuing a trade with a team like Chicago and parting with a 1st rounder to do it. I don't think it's a stretch to think people will panic and expect a major move. I've seen chatter about it on other boards too. Versteeg has been thrown out there a lot as a target, but that doesn't really address the JStaal injury.

Edited by super_dave_1

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Yeah, although I like RFs overall potential as GM, this is where his inexperience might hurt us compared to JRs "horse trading" ability when it came to picking up a few surprise contributors.  

 

I know this particular ship has sailed, but imo it would have been nice to have Palushaj as a potential piece to have available for consideration in the attempt to plug part of the gap.  A natural RW, and maybe we could have used speed (Gerbe or Boychuk on the left, Palushaj on the right) to get some things done.  Certainly not a fix, but the more options to play with the better imo.  

 

Still hoping that Loktionov might be able to provide some relief . . . (again, the more options the better)

Edited by LakeLivin

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Well OBXer, there was discussion on this board prior to J's injury about pursuing a trade with a team like Chicago and parting with a 1st rounder to do it. I don't think it's a stretch to think people will panic and expect a major move. I've seen chatter about it on other boards too. Versteeg has been thrown out there a lot as a target, but that doesn't really address the JStaal injury.

 

Not to mention a couple of posters identifying and discussing trades with cap-strapped teams as a solution just this morning.  That sounded pretty desperate to me.

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Not to mention a couple of posters identifying and discussing trades with cap-strapped teams as a solution just this morning.  That sounded pretty desperate to me.

 

I took that more as a question in a general discussion of trade. I would think there might be some desperation on the cap-strapped teams too. I don't think it unusual or desperate in the discussion to look toward teams that might have to make a trade as a potential source to make that trade.

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I was going on the fact you said you didn't understand why everyone here were are all desperate to make a trade, when you were willing to discuss getting hosed by another team who would be happy to trade us somebody in return for draft picks to get under the cap.

 

We don't have any assets to trade away, we are already thin enough as is.

 

Doing something like that would seem to be the definition of desperate.

 

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding?

Edited by coastal_caniac

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What I said was, "What I don't understand is why everyone seems to think RF will make a desperation move".  But that aside it appears you believe the best course of action is to stay with the players we have while I think a smart trade will make us better under the circumstances.

 

I also said we should look for an experienced center.  I'm not advocating we empty the cupboard to make a block buster trade. I'm not saying replace J with another J. I would be more comfortable with some experience on the 2nd or 3rd line. I'm not sure Nash is 2nd line ready or Rask is ready yet, but they might be. So for now we will just have to disagree on what would be best.

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My feeling is that Nash steps up and has a breakout year. Use checkers to fill in the bottom lines until J is back. He may heal faster than most think, probably between U.S. Thanksgiving and the first week of December.

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So assuming Loktionov's shoulder is better, I don't see what the downside is.

 

Not a desperation move. Won't break the bank. Doesn't mortgage the future. Can play wing after J gets back. We will have at least one injury while J. is out. Knows the team. Helps on the PP. NHL capable. Got two Russians on the team for him. 

 

Am I missing something?

 

I am not internet savvy enough to find any recent updates on him. But the Cane's must have his number.

Edited by remkin

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What I said was, "What I don't understand is why everyone seems to think RF will make a desperation move".  But that aside it appears you believe the best course of action is to stay with the players we have while I think a smart trade will make us better under the circumstances.

 

I also said we should look for an experienced center.  I'm not advocating we empty the cupboard to make a block buster trade. I'm not saying replace J with another J. I would be more comfortable with some experience on the 2nd or 3rd line. I'm not sure Nash is 2nd line ready or Rask is ready yet, but they might be. So for now we will just have to disagree on what would be best.

 

Okay, gotcha, my bad.

 

And again, I just don't see how you make a smart trade when we having nothing of value to trade that won't further weaken the team, or the organization moving forward (in assets). 

 

Thus, sticking with what we have seems the smartest, or maybe even the only course of action, as far as trades go.

 

Now signing a depth player, like a Loktionov, is a different story all together.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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What about Chris Stewart? I saw his name in trade rumors recently and I don't think he'd cost too much considering he's in the last year of his deal. I know he isn't a C but he'd be a nice wing for Lindholm on the 2nd line as well as for Jordan when he returns.

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yes, stamkos had surgery... Stewart is appealing, good, bruising, grinding forward, but again, at what cost? I say stay the course too...

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Though Jordan without question picked it up the second half of last year, I think it's the play of our kids that got him him going. Because of that, I'm in the "this is not as big a deal as some are making it" camp. Which is not to take anything away from Jordan (at all) - just to say that the spark plug line in the second half last year was Skins-Nash-Lindy. I've been saying all summer that should be the second line, because they earned it with their play. I'll be very surprised if that is not the #2 line by the end of October. I also believed (and still do) that J should center E and Semin, but with J out, we're back to Semin, Staal and Tlusty - and no excuse for them not finding the chemistry that made them, for that wonderful few weeks two season ago, the hottest line in hockey. McClement centers Gerbs and, I'll wager, LaRose for the third and Malone centers the fourth with Boychuk and Dwyer.

 

Roll these lines with Rask, McGinn, Terry, DeGuiseppe, and Brown (two centers and three wingers with huge offensive upside) nipping at the heels of all the second-six forwards and you create exactly what Peters is working for: An NHL roster where guys know if they don't leave it out there 100 percent every night, he's got young options who will.

 

This team is on notice that they'e out of excuses, and Jordan's injury, while disappointing, will prove a molehill - not a mountain.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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top shelf, you put  the puck in the top shelf... great post!..  I see  a  great year from Lindy, he so composed out there for a young kid... i got a good feeling about  rask and nash too... and Skins is in preseason  form... if he stay healthy, he scores the most points on the team..

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