Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
Stealth-ch1

Jordan Staal out for 3-4 months, surgery required for broken fibula

Recommended Posts

Though Jordan without question picked it up the second half of last year, I think it's the play of our kids that got him him going. Because of that, I'm in the "this is not as big a deal as some are making it" camp.

. . .

 

This team is on notice that they'e out of excuses, and Jordan's injury, while disappointing, will prove a molehill - not a mountain.

 

 

top shelf, you put  the puck in the top shelf... great post!..  I see  a  great year from Lindy, he so composed out there for a young kid... i got a good feeling about  rask and nash too... and Skins is in preseason  form... if he stay healthy, he scores the most points on the team..

 

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one :).  Basically, Jordan played against the best centers in the league last season and he not only played them evenly, he slightly outscored them (+2 on the year).  I see that as being very difficult to replace.

Edited by LakeLivin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one :).  Basically, Jordan played against the best centers in the league last season and he not only played them evenly, he slightly outscored them (+2 on the year).  I see that as being very difficult to replace.

One of the best things about freedom of speech is reserving the right to disagree :) No worries, Lake.

 

That said, I'll go even further. I believe Jeff Skinner is leading this team already and that he will have the C within two years. Jordan contributed, and as I said, I take nothing away from him. But we have a unique crop of uniquely experienced kids who responded the night after he broke his leg in a big way, against a team whose top player was on the ice. Yes, it's preseason - but these kids are clearly ready to fill the void, and champing at the bit to pick up where they left off last year. I for one am eager to watch them do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gotta hand it to you top, that is a fresh perspective. You even out optimism me. 

 

I can't quite go so far as you though. In the past running too many inexperienced AHL guys has led to a lot of energy and not a lot of goals. So I'd go along with the idea of running with the kids for a while, which is certainly what appears to be the (non LaRose part) of the plan at the moment. But maybe not quite as many kids as you list. 

 

I agree and predict big things for Lindholm. Typically studs breakout year 3, but I still expect a really nice year from him. I also predict major steps forward for Murphy.

 

I notice you left out Boychuk and given the history I don't blame you, but I just think this time will be different. And he has significant NHL experience too. 

 

I have been long on McGinn. He looked like an NHL player last year, and he has only gotten better. But is he really ready or would he develop better on a top line in Charlotte? 

 

If Rask can show he can keep up at NHL speed when the squads get down to NHL players....it might be time to give him a shot. He seems to be this year's surprise. I haven't seen w/ my own eyes yet, but word has been good.

 

Brown is a big body and intriguing, but really might be best on the 4th line to start, if not in Charlotte. Can he play wing? Can't just about any center play wing?

 

DiGuisseppe is kind of like Rask to me. A guy with skills who hasn't really shown it at lower levels. Will he jump up this year? I'd like to see him develop w/ McGinn on the top line in Charlotte for a while first.

 

Of course Boychuk and Rask, and Nash for that matter have to show it in camp, but I would give them the first bite at the apple.

 

I guess we'll see if Nash can handle second line center, but I cannot honestly feel very confident about Nash-Rask as 2-3. 

 

Of course we still might see Linholm get a shot at either 2 or 3 center. He's young, but his skill set says Center. 

 

 

I do like the idea of the kids pushing. Really having a shot. The key is if any of them can start putting the puck in the net or setting that up. While J.'s salary is a bit high for his points, he did put up 40 points last year, and I'm betting he would have done better this year. Nash put up 24 points last year. Jordan is only one year older than Nash (just found that interesting somehow).

 

Again, like kids pushing, but at least a couple are going to actually have to score some points.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gotta hand it to you top, that is a fresh perspective. You even out optimism me. 

 

I can't quite go so far as you though. In the past running too many inexperienced AHL guys has led to a lot of energy and not a lot of goals. So I'd go along with the idea of running with the kids for a while, which is certainly what appears to be the (non LaRose part) of the plan at the moment. But maybe not quite as many kids as you list. 

 

I agree and predict big things for Lindholm. Typically studs breakout year 3, but I still expect a really nice year from him. I also predict major steps forward for Murphy.

 

I notice you left out Boychuk and given the history I don't blame you, but I just think this time will be different. And he has significant NHL experience too. 

 

I have been long on McGinn. He looked like an NHL player last year, and he has only gotten better. But is he really ready or would he develop better on a top line in Charlotte? 

 

If Rask can show he can keep up at NHL speed when the squads get down to NHL players....it might be time to give him a shot. He seems to be this year's surprise. I haven't seen w/ my own eyes yet, but word has been good.

 

Brown is a big body and intriguing, but really might be best on the 4th line to start, if not in Charlotte. Can he play wing? Can't just about any center play wing?

 

DiGuisseppe is kind of like Rask to me. A guy with skills who hasn't really shown it at lower levels. Will he jump up this year? I'd like to see him develop w/ McGinn on the top line in Charlotte for a while first.

 

Of course Boychuk and Rask, and Nash for that matter have to show it in camp, but I would give them the first bite at the apple.

 

I guess we'll see if Nash can handle second line center, but I cannot honestly feel very confident about Nash-Rask as 2-3. 

 

Of course we still might see Linholm get a shot at either 2 or 3 center. He's young, but his skill set says Center. 

 

 

I do like the idea of the kids pushing. Really having a shot. The key is if any of them can start putting the puck in the net or setting that up. While J.'s salary is a bit high for his points, he did put up 40 points last year, and I'm betting he would have done better this year. Nash put up 24 points last year. Jordan is only one year older than Nash (just found that interesting somehow).

 

Again, like kids pushing, but at least a couple are going to actually have to score some points.

Actually I've got Boychuk on the fourth line. He impressed the heck out of me in the second half last year. After Murph got sent back to the farm he (Boychuk) was often the guy lugging the puck with speed thru the neutral zone, and he wasn't afraid to shoot. I hope he builds on that.

 

The thing few people seem to notice (let alone acknowledge) with Nash is that he is doing the job of a true center: winning face-offs and creating traffic in front of the net. I'd love to see him pot more assists, but let's not forget he centered a line with a guy who was ninth in the league in SOG last year (Skinner, who finished ninth overall despite missing 11 games). So while I'd like Nash to get another 20 points, if he is using his frame to create the kind of havoc that keeps goalies preoccupied and creates holes for Skins and Lindy to hit, that's as good as an assist in my book.

 

Something else I'm excited about is Murph as QB on the PP. He played with Skinner in Kitchener and it shows; every time they are in the O-zone together they are looking for each other. When we first inked him I wondered if we wouldn't try to convert him to forward, his numbers in juniors were that good. But his two assists on the PP on Long Island last week tells me he is taking Peters' statement about giving him a chance to QB seriously.

 

Fans see the game differently than management and I don't think it's mere coincidence that many of us have been saying "let the youth step up" pretty much since the '09 playoffs. I think JR was too invested in veterans (mainly for their gate draw) to notice that he had a corral of kids ready to leave it all out there every night, which is why I see the return of Rosie differently, I guess. He may be 32, but he plays like he's 25 or 26, and I think that energy is why Ronnie wanted him back. He's a guy with a Stanley Cup ring and nothing gets kids' attention in the AHL quite like suiting up every night next to a Stanley Cup champion. Now that it's looking like he'll play "up here" that may be gone, but it doesn't change that the number of kids playing in Charlotte now who have at least some NHL experience has grown. And I think that, along with our addition of Joe Nieuwendyk to the scouting ranks, is a clear signal that Ronnie is interested in building a pipeline for the long term.

 

So yeah, I'm optimistic. Get it on film - Lord knows it's not my default position!     

Edited by top-shelf-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good stuff top. I especially appreciate the stuff on Nash. I think it also speaks to your point about coaches seeing the game much more closely and technically than most of us. I think they're seeing the stuff you mention w Nash.  Nash's big potential is still to be a two way center w/ a playmaking edge. Kind of like a lower end Linholm. I have seen some slick passes from Nash, and if forwards alledgedly peak around 28 years old, then he might push his numbers up this year. I think he needs to do better than 12 assists. If Nash could put up say 15G and 25A, that would be very solid. In fact, that was the exact end of year line for J last year...

 

I guess I missed your Boychuk on the 4th line. That's one I have to go a different way on. I think we need to put this kid on a scoring line and the PP and let him run for a while. Too much upside if he finds it here. I am not going for the "it's only in the AHL" thing on his leading the entire AHL in scoring last year. I think he's been a bit gun-shy and hamstrung up to now by the idea that he's not here to score, but to show the coach that he'll play defense and be strong on the puck etc. Yes he's finding a new role, but if this guy can put up near 20 goals...well we're probably going to need them, especially early in the year and especially on the PP, where he excelled in the AHL. And what a recovery of a 1st round draft pick if he does it!

 

Agree to disagree on LaRose. He's taken over the training camp thread, my take is over there. Did love the guy a few years ago though.

 

Absolutely agree on Murph. While Boychuk scoring 20 in the NHL or Rask being fully NHL ready still seem uncertain to me, two kids that I just really think will step up big this year are Murphy and Linholm. Murphy's offensive chops are off the hook. Really like no one we've had (though Sekera is sneaky good offensively). Murphy is one of those guys who could end up with very gaudy numbers at the end of his career. He breaks down a defense 5 on 5. Peters has called him out to QB the PP. I think he delivers this year. He's 21 years old, dmen are said to peak at 29 and most don't realy find their NHL game until 24 ish. Most guys are still in college at this age. Big things to come for him.

 

I'm on a bit of a kick about NHL player's age peaks for forwards and d men. But it does suggest that a lot of our yutes are way on the young side of that curve. So as long as guys like Nash, and Murphy, and Linholm, even Skinner (can you imagine?) keep playing they should be better every year for quite a while.

 

I guess that is a cause for some optimism.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ts, you REM, coastal and Lake are all my heroes, and I read you all with respect. Your perspective on

Jordan's injury is like a breath of fresh air, however I must say that even I am not that optimistic as to think that the erstwhile line of Nash/Skins/Lindholm will be more than a temporizing measure. I submit, that just like Tlusty soared on the line with E and Semin, the young line took off due to the "buffering"

effect that Jordan's line provided. Not having that line to run interference, so to speak, will dictate

that other teams can turn loose their better players on the youngsters. Hope I'm wrong, but that's the way I think the cards will fall?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ts, you REM, coastal and Lake are all my heroes, and I read you all with respect. Your perspective on

Jordan's injury is like a breath of fresh air, however I must say that even I am not that optimistic as to think that the erstwhile line of Nash/Skins/Lindholm will be more than a temporizing measure. I submit, that just like Tlusty soared on the line with E and Semin, the young line took off due to the "buffering"

effect that Jordan's line provided. Not having that line to run interference, so to speak, will dictate

that other teams can turn loose their better players on the youngsters. Hope I'm wrong, but that's the way I think the cards will fall?

 

Thanks for the props Kjun. (does anyone say that anymore)? I very much enjoy what you bring to the boards also. Very thoughful and intelectual and well written stuff. Keep on bringing it!

 

Your point on what could be seen as a big void in the center of our line up is valid. No question that while our savvy board members see it, many fans underapprciate what J. did for this team last year. By facing down the top centers in the league and coming out on top on average. Further, I'd add that I am still a beleiver that J. has more points in him. I was counting on that this year. He has done it before, so it's not like a remkin projection, he's done it.

 

Even further, while E. can go stride for stride offensively vs. the top lines, he has a tendancy to come out on the minus end of things when he does.

 

The one thin light of hope is that Nash has been very good defensively and positionally. Whlle he is admittedly not generally facing the Crosbys night in and out, he managed an even plus minus despite not putting up a lot of points himself. 

 

I think Nash can lose the battle by a small enough margin that we can have a chance IF other parts of the game come together (#1 being the PP, which has shown signs early :crossfingers:) . But this is far from proven.

 

The other thing we lose is depth. Having to overslot one guy (Nash) is one thing. (I guess that's obvious, that over slotting one guy is one thing). But if we don't make a move, we will at least possibly have to overslot two guys (Rask and Nash).  One way to only overslot one guy is to slide Linholm into the #2 center and leave Nash at #3. Linholm is ready to play on the second line, but center? Personally I think he can, but it is a risk.

 

 

No question that a team already seen as marginal at best is in no way stronger w/out J in there.

 

I guess that's what appeals about the youth movement to some of us. See what we've got and get a lot of high energy until J. gets back.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ts, you REM, coastal and Lake are all my heroes, and I read you all with respect. Your perspective on

Jordan's injury is like a breath of fresh air, however I must say that even I am not that optimistic as to think that the erstwhile line of Nash/Skins/Lindholm will be more than a temporizing measure. I submit, that just like Tlusty soared on the line with E and Semin, the young line took off due to the "buffering"

effect that Jordan's line provided. Not having that line to run interference, so to speak, will dictate

that other teams can turn loose their better players on the youngsters. Hope I'm wrong, but that's the way I think the cards will fall?

 

Aw, shucks . . .  :blush::hotflash:

 

But I agree with you and Rem;  I fear the "knock on effects" are going to hurt almost as much as losing what J himself brings.

Edited by LakeLivin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ts, you REM, coastal and Lake are all my heroes, and I read you all with respect. Your perspective on

Jordan's injury is like a breath of fresh air, however I must say that even I am not that optimistic as to think that the erstwhile line of Nash/Skins/Lindholm will be more than a temporizing measure. I submit, that just like Tlusty soared on the line with E and Semin, the young line took off due to the "buffering"

effect that Jordan's line provided. Not having that line to run interference, so to speak, will dictate

that other teams can turn loose their better players on the youngsters. Hope I'm wrong, but that's the way I think the cards will fall?

 

Sheeze, thanks KJUN. And you may be right about the temporariness of a second line with Skins-Nash-Lindy. But other than McClement (who I think is too old for second-line minutes in addition to the PK duties for which we picked him up), I don't know who else has the positive face-off percentage AT THIS LEVEL that Nash brings. Peters has said he's all about puck possession and you know that puts a smile on my face, because I'm old-school: win face-offs and you control the puck, lose 'em and you wind up chasing it. I think Rask and Lindy both have the potential be plus-50 percent face-off guys, but I'm not sure putting that pressure on them right out of the gate is smart when you've got Nash who has been there, done that.

 

By the way - how sorry do you think Ronnie is for not matching Montreal's offer to Manny? But hindsight's 20/20...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only issue I have with Skinner-Nash-Lindholm as the second line is defensive zone draws.  If that line has to start in the defensive zone on a majority of shifts, it could pretty much castrate their offensive output.  That would be even a bigger issue on the road.

 

So, without discussing who would be their defensive partners, it's only a piece of a bigger puzzle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats a great point. There is no question they were sheltered a bit last season by the J line. Peters said he wanted three scoring lines but if our top two are set this way that third line is going to need to be very tough to play against. There could be a lot of line shifting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sheeze, thanks KJUN. And you may be right about the temporariness of a second line with Skins-Nash-Lindy. But other than McClement (who I think is too old for second-line minutes in addition to the PK duties for which we picked him up), I don't know who else has the positive face-off percentage AT THIS LEVEL that Nash brings. Peters has said he's all about puck possession and you know that puts a smile on my face, because I'm old-school: win face-offs and you control the puck, lose 'em and you wind up chasing it. I think Rask and Lindy both have the potential be plus-50 percent face-off guys, but I'm not sure putting that pressure on them right out of the gate is smart when you've got Nash who has been there, done that.

 

By the way - how sorry do you think Ronnie is for not matching Montreal's offer to Manny? But hindsight's 20/20...

 

Not sorry at all.  Manny lost steam half way through last season and really disappeared.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sorry at all.  Manny lost steam half way through last season and really disappeared.

bd58, As most can tell, Manny was my absolute favorite from our team last season. With that as a disclaimer, I won't disagree with your point about him "losing steam" toward the end of last season, but wonder if that was him, or did the entire team fade to some extent under Muller's tutelage?

Conversely, had not Manny sat out for quite some time, so this too probably affected his 82 game conditioning.

I for one would have loved him back this year, and with how this critical injury has left us on a precipice, I'll bet you Ronnie has 2nd guessed his decision concerning this player. I mean, after all, he would have around to pick up the face-off slack for the 1st half of the season, no?

Finally, OBXer, I'm sorry I left you off my admired list. Typical, when one attempts to hand out -plaudits, someone is always left out!! Mi Culpa???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally, OBXer, I'm sorry I left you off my admired list. Typical, when one attempts to hand out -plaudits, someone is always left out!! Mi Culpa???

 

Thats alright Kjun I'm in it for the money anyway..wait.. somebody just shouted there ain't no money in it!  Ok add me to the list and be quick about it  :D

 

Seriously, I enjoy everyone on the board and their opinions. Other views always give me pause for thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah Kjun, thanks for the kudos, even though I don't deserve it.  Your alright, even if you aren't a Dawg fan, ha ha.  :grin:  Still diggin' that avi your sportin'.

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only issue I have with Skinner-Nash-Lindholm as the second line is defensive zone draws.  If that line has to start in the defensive zone on a majority of shifts, it could pretty much castrate their offensive output.  That would be even a bigger issue on the road.

 

So, without discussing who would be their defensive partners, it's only a piece of a bigger puzzle.

I hear ya, but I see it a little differently. Peters said early that Skinner needs to get better on D, and there's no better way to fast-track than putting him (and Lindy, for that matter) in those situations. It's going to have to happen sooner or later, and early in the season is better than down the stretch. Might as well float it and see if he (and the line) responds. Plus, with two centers, Nash can be more aggressive, so Lindy will build his face-off count.

 

Not sorry at all.  Manny lost steam half way through last season and really disappeared.  

His face-off numbers never dwindled. If we're now committed to a puck-possession game, we could have essentially run him out there to win the draw, and run him back to the bench for another forward.

Edited by top-shelf-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear ya, but I see it a little differently. Peters said early that Skinner needs to get better on D, and there's no better way to fast-track than putting him (and Lindy, for that matter) in those situations. It's going to have to happen sooner or later, and early in the season is better than down the stretch. Might as well float it and see if he (and the line) responds. Plus, with two centers, Nash can be more aggressive, so Lindy will build his face-off count.

 

His face-off numbers never dwindled. If we're now committed to a puck-possession game, we could have essentially run him out there to win the draw, and run him back to the bench for another forward.

 

And give up on a player that is good along the boards and/or actually plays a solid 2 way game and is able to keep up with the play?  If we're going by the method of just having there to win faceoffs we might as well have Brindy make the team for that purpose.  I bet big money he can still win face offs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And give up on a player that is good along the boards and/or actually plays a solid 2 way game and is able to keep up with the play?  If we're going by the method of just having there to win faceoffs we might as well have Brindy make the team for that purpose.  I bet big money he can still win face offs.

I've actually thought that very thing! It all starts at the dots.

 

I'm betting Manny worked his tail off this summer and will bring back a lot more stamina. Montreal is on the verge, and obviously saw the benefit of adding him for critical face-offs, and I think our letting him go is further proof of Ronnie's commitment to winning with young players. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah don't get em wrong I like Manny.  But people are over looking this McClemment signing.  He is a very good center and probably one of the best 4th line centers that you can have on your team.  Several people are like don't expect much.  But this guy almost won the selke a few years ago.  He will pay dividends to our PK.

Edited by bluedevil58

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm also in agreement on McClement. He is more then an adequate replacement for Manny. I really liked Manny and would have been fine if he stayed but McClement should fill that void very well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...