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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/puck-daddy-power-rankings--trading-eric-staal--montreal-fans-and-big-surprises-205149568.html

 

Over at Puck Daddy. A failry cynical view of the Canes and E. Staal. Basically says teams would be foolish to trade for him, but someone probably would. Thinks he's mostly done being the old Eric Staal.

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At this point, our best hope is for Semin to bolt to the KHL and we free up that cap space...because no one in their right mind would EVER shoulder Eric, Jordan, Cam or Semin's contracts in a trade.

 

 

Do we still have buyouts? Or did we miss that bus. Let Semin sit with Tripp until he bolts and use the buyouts on any two of the three.

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When your down, expect to be piled on by the media.

 

I found it interesting that RF is on the road trip but is breaking away toward the end to scout the California teams.

 

Actually, I think that's refreshing.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Before this season even began I had resigned myself to the fact that we're not making the playoffs, and that if we do, it will be an unexpected gift...

 

This is the simple key to happiness this season.

 

I want some entertainment.  Some guts from our guys.  Last night was the first night this season I saw very little of it.

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We recalled Sutter from Charlotte. The kid is big enough. I guess the Murphy experiment at wing is over for now.

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When your down, expect to be piled on by the media.

 

I found it interesting that RF is on the road trip but is breaking away toward the end to scout the California teams.

 

Actually, I think that's refreshing.

 

 

Hmmm,,,,, :letssee:

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Probably huge for Sutter to play in Edmonton for the first time being he's from the area, relatively speaking, for the prairies.

 

Riding through rural Canada, in the prairies, you will come across small towns of 2 or 3 hundred people and a sign leading to town points out it's the home town of some NHL'r.  Pretty cool.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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We recalled Sutter from Charlotte. The kid is big enough. I guess the Murphy experiment at wing is over for now.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Murphy added to an equation to sweeten the pot to swing a deal in the future.

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I psyched myself into optimism before the season, praying that Peters could get something out of these players that Muller could not.

Yes, we've had an incredible run of injuries, but unless we win some games on this road trip, we will be in an awfully deep hole where everyone except a few Canes fans expected us to be.

Given the (in)action by RF in the offseason, I'm now leaning toward believing that he knows coming off 5 years without playoffs he cannot acknowledge we are rebuilding, but that is just what we are doing. If E Staal comes back and shows he still has elite skill but we are still at the bottom of the Metro on January 1, I see him bringing a good return of picks and prospects providing that he doesn't Whitney us with his NMC. Hainsey and Khudobin might have some value at the deadline; maybe a couple others. I see 2010 happening all over again. Of course if we win the next 3 games, I reserve the right to change my mind.

Semin, unfortunately is looking like a real problem. I have not watched every minute of every game, but Tripp has called him out for lack of effort at least 3 times already, and replays supported Tripp's comments. Compliance buyouts are gone, but I do think we get some cap relief if we waive him and no one bites, then we release him. I don't see PK paying that many actual dollars for someone not to play, no matter how much cap relief we get. Are there any hot young Russian tennis players who are not spoken for that might lure him to the KHL?

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Well, it's been slightly worse than I expected for the start of the season.  That being said, maybe having a new GM, more scouts and a deep draft means this is the year to be bad(and I wouldn't mind wrecking Buffalo's dream for McDavid).

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I'd like Ronnie to get Yakupov on our plane while in Edmonton.

 

I'm not sure a trade is that imminent. I'm not sure it isn't. We have no history with Francis so difficult to say how he reacts. I was listening to Maniscalco's podcast with Forslund and they touched on making a move in a conversational way. The gist was trades are not as easy to make in todays NHL and blockbuster moves more difficult. Forslund did indicate Francis may be forced to make a move earlier than he had wanted. I do get the impression a lot of teams are kicking tires right now. 

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I just can't see a trade at present, as much as I'd like the rejuvenation of feeling that someone in higher management feels the fans' pain. I mean, really, look at the big picture. 2 rather blah pickups + Gleason in the off season. Then major injuries occurring even before Peters gets any kind of feel for any of his players, only now getting a few trickling back.

It seems to me that the coaches need some time to reintegrate everyone, in order to even know what they can do AS A UNIT.

Now I know that it could be argued that Peters has seen 5 games with the likes of Semin and several others.But is that really a fair appraisal of their talents when all the pieces are in place?

IMHO, to pull the proverbial plug now, despite the urgency that we all have experienced at this 14-15 season slipping away, would be reactionary and very premature. Those do not appear to me to be characteristics of this new coach, from all I've been able read about him.

Of course, there is no harm in being prepared should something come along that "is too good to pass up".

Edited by KJUNKANE

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There is no "plug to pull" just 5 games into the season.  While it always pays to answer the phone and listen to offers, the likelyhood of anything happening is close to zero.   I really don't know how you evaluate the team with half the team not playing, and nobody is going to want to take on an underperforming and overpaid player (Semin, I'm eyeballin' you).  All we can do is wait for some guys to get healed and for Peters to start to move these guys in the right direction. 

 

On the big salary guys, most teams looking to add those players can not take that salary on at this point in the season.  Once the trade deadline gets closer, there will be less money left on those cap hits this season and those guys may start to fit into some of those holes if the Canes are out of playoff contention.  It seems unlikely at this point, but it's still only 5 games into the season.  While winning 3 in a row seems impossible right now, that's all it would take to get this bunch back to the treading water mark.  All this internet chatter on who is interested in who is mostly just chatter, or deals like Calgary proposing trading nothing for Cam Ward and our 1st round pick this past summer.

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That Winnepeg game was the tough one. If we hadn't suffered the two early goals and started chasing and freelancing, and somehow pulled that one off, we'd all be a bit less cantankerous, myself included. A team with marginal talent cannot afford two things: 1. Less effort that the opponent. 2. Coming off the system. In Winnepeg they did both and the results showed it.

 

The question then, is how does this team respond? Did they learn their lesson? Do they regroup and get back on the game plan? If they do, as SD pointed out they can win a couple in a row and get things going better. 

 

It is still a very unanswered question as to whether E. is done being E. Have injuries and surgery and what not, decreased his game for all time, or can he get back to at least a PPG Eric? If he can, it pushes all of our centers down to more correct slots, and hopefully shocks Semin back to life. If not.....let's not go there. 

 

If Francis wants to shake up the world there really is one guy he could trade: Jeff Skinner. Despite the concussions, there have to be a few GM's slobbering over those goals and his flash. And he's one guy without the mega contract and NTC hanging around his neck. I'm not saying to make that move at all, but to me that's the one that is there. If he did not have the concussion issues trading him would be idiocy, but he does, so it becomes worth at least looking at. 

 

However, if we did trade Skinner, that would be the towel going in. Pick up a first rounder and much more and start the rebuild. 

 

Again I say not only no, but heck no to trading Khudobin. Ward has still not proven himself, and our yutes are a couple of years away in goal. Unless you want to really go all out for Conner McDavid...no way. I predict right here, that Khudobin is a very good, probably top 10 goalie and this will become apparent as the year plays out.

 

Even when the smoke clears on the rebuild (if we go that way) we will need a goalie.

 

All of THAT said, we really do need to see what this crew could do if it gets healthy and gets it's act together. J's injury really put a huge fly in that ointment, but at least getting the full team minus J out there could help.

 

I wonder if Semin goes on a nice run, if maybe he'd be tradeable. This marks the second time that he has gone into cruise mode. I love that guy's off the charts talent, and when he's bringing it he's a joy to watch, but this listless play has to stop fast. I do wonder why Peters has not called him out at least by demoting him...

Edited by remkin

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I think any move RF does would be for a young forward in which the goal is to get another top-6 core player who will stick with us for years to come. Ideally, anyways. That would require losing some form of future in either picks or prospects. I personally want to see a veteran guy who can come in, show up on the scoresheet, and teach a few things along the way to our younger guys. I know I sound like a broken record because I've said this for three seasons now, but I still think we need that experienced guy who doesn't just put up decent numbers, but helps other guys in the lineup reach full potential as well.

 

Anyways I'm not holding my breath for a trade. The only way I see a trade this month is if we still don't have a W by the tail end of this road trip. As for trading Semin, I doubt we do. Not because we don't necessarily want to (I don't personally), but because his value is terrible at the moment, and any team receiving would want us to eat a chunk of his 7million per salary. Don't see RF handicapping us when we are already handicapped with an internal cap. I think he is just as frustrated with himself as we fans are with him. And I also think he's having trouble playing with Nash at center. I don't see any chemistry whatsoever between the two. I think Semin should get looks with other centers, such as Rask or even McClement for a shift or two. Semin is more offensively minded, whereas both Tlusty and Nash are more defensively minded. A lot of the time it seems like Semin's linemates are focused on getting back when Semin is focused on keeping the play in the offensive zone, and is left alone and behind the play without decent backup on the forecheck. I see a lot of passes from Semin to either linemate and they don't realize the pass is for them and it sails by them. Same thing in reverse, half the time they feed Semin when he isn't expecting or looking for the puck necessarily. Rask may be a better fit for Semin at his center. Throw Skinner up on the first line with Nash who he's played well with, and I think Tlusty is good with anyone. Bring Semin down to play with Lindholm and Rask. Worth a shot in my opinion.

 

Semin played his best with a healthy Eric Staal centering him. Staal hasn't been very healthy since that lockout shortened season. Tlusty has been up and down and is trending up, but I honestly believe Tlusty reaped the benefits of playing with two true top line players that season he potted 23. Now I think he is looking to make plays himself, rather than be the guy that sneaks in at the end and finishes a play. That's development and improvement. Hopefully tonight Semin gets a lucky bounce and can sort of let go of his frustration and just play.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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At this point, the rebuild HAS to happen...and it may take a few seasons. 

 

To answer a question posed on the previous page, the buyouts were done and over with this past summer.  And I think we were one of only 2/3 teams that didn't use any of their buyouts...probably cause PK was too busy and too poor.

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Here's a question I haven't heard anyone raise: how do you measure J. Staal's contributions to the team given that they aren't necessarily primarily offensive and therefore easily quantified?  How big a portion of our lack of success so far be tied directly to losing J?  I don't pretend to know the answer and I'm certainly not implying that we don't have a bunch of other personnel issues, but how do you measure the value of a big center that is effective at limiting the opposing teams star center?

 

EDITED

Edited by LakeLivin

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If  Semin heats up, why would we trade him??? If we dont score first, we usually lose.. Score first!

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I'm not sure a trade is that imminent. I'm not sure it isn't. We have no history with Francis so difficult to say how he reacts. I was listening to Maniscalco's podcast with Forslund and they touched on making a move in a conversational way. The gist was trades are not as easy to make in todays NHL and blockbuster moves more difficult. Forslund did indicate Francis may be forced to make a move earlier than he had wanted. I do get the impression a lot of teams are kicking tires right now. 

I'm not sure a trade is imminent,but it should be. OBXer you are spot on,trades are difficult in today's NHL with cap issues, NTC and all teams jockeying for position. With the amount of rebuild that we need we can't wait for the trade deadline or off season to have a respectable 2015-2016 season.There have been several rumors of Edmonton possibly looking to trade a RW, which as we all know is a position that should of been filled in our last off season. Edmonton has two young RW's which would fit into RF's youth movement strategy.If  they are available we should do whatever we can to get that deal done now.The longer we wait for beginning the rebuild the longer we suffer. Ronnie may be looking at potential trades,who knows for sure.

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If  Semin heats up, why would we trade him??? If we dont score first, we usually lose.. Score first!

 

Because he would have trade value and if we are in rebuild, we would be really have to decide what we want as part of the core rebuild and when the team is hopefully good again, is he part of that? If he is going to be a bear to motivate and periodically decide to disappear for vast stretches...if last year was less about the wrist and more about the head...

 

I've been a pretty big Semin apologist for the most part, but the start of this year is hard to defend. 

 

But mainly right now we don't have a lot of tradable pieces. If Semin started looking good he might pick up some trade value. Again, if we get to the point of full on rebuild. 

 

Still holding out hope we don't go into full on rebuild, but if we do, is Semin a core keeper?

Edited by remkin

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If we make any kind of major trade right now I won't be just surprised, I'll be downright gobsmacked (I've always wanted to use that word in a sentence :P). 

 

Mgmt was aware of our lack of depth before J got hurt and didn't add anybody even though there were quality players available at no cost except salary (and some ended up signing for very low salaries at that).  After we knew J was going to be out for much of the season, we still didn't make any moves, again even though there were some of the players mentioned above still available.  And it's not like RF is new to the organization.  He was familiar with our AHL players and their pedigree (it's not like we were counting on a Monahan or Drury to break out). I stand by my hunch that there was more at play than evaluating our youth, and it probably originated with PK.  So why would we do anything now when our return is likely to be very low? I just don't see it.  As we approach the trade deadline it could be a whole new ballgame.    

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Whooaaaa boy, how quickly things can change. Before the Winnipeg game there was a lot of positivity, even with the losses. One 3-1 game and suddenly the sky has fallen and we need to start trading right now...? No thanks. Yes it's been pretty bad at times to start out this year, but looking to trade right now does nothing but hurt our long term. Yes it sucks that its been so long since this team has made the playoffs already, and it sounds painful to say be patient, but the best thing we can do is just that, ride this out. This team is not one veteran or winger away from being a top contender, so trading away any part of our future for that player does nothing but drop our draft position by a few, or maybe we make it to the playoffs once every few years(like the mediocrity of the last 7 years again). To be consistently strong, teams need to build from within, which means keeping our picks and prospects.

 

Pretty much everybody's value is low right now, and knee-jerk reaction trades never work out well in the long term, which is where we should be looking to. Extreme example here, but how much better does this team look with Andrew Ladd? Or how about Brandon Sutter AND J.Staal? You know what this team would have needed to do to make that happen? Nothing. Not a thing, no big fancy moves or GM work, the pieces were already in place if we would have just waited (particularly in Ladd's case, I will make the assumption that J. would have still looked to sign here following Pittsburgh). And I don't feel like watching a pick or prospect we trade away tomorrow become another guy like that on another team so that we can continue with more years of not quite terrible all over again. That's why I like the fact that Francis is staying the course right now, not overreacting. Now I agree with most of you that we should have been more active in the off season, and picked up a winger when it didn't cost us anything. That was a mistake, but overcompensating for it by making a bad trade now is a bigger mistake. Let's please not make a trade just for the sake of saying we did something.

 

Before this season even began I had resigned myself to the fact that we're not making the playoffs, and that if we do, it will be an unexpected gift, one which guarantees this same group plays together next season and tries to build on such unexpected success. Assuming that doesn't happen, we will keep our promising youngsters and maybe Gerbe and Sekera, and everyone else will be on the block.

 

Making a deal now for anyone but E, Cam or Semin mortgages the future, which is the opposite of what this team should be doing (and the opposite of what Ron has said he wants to do). And any deal - made now, at the deadline, or in the off-season - that does not return a first-round pick, a top-six forward and a solid Dman only prolongs our mediocrity with some different faces.

 

It will be painful, but IMO, it is better to stay the course: Commit to this group, push them to perform, and see what you get. Maybe they respond and you're pleasantly surprised (amazed is more like it) with a playoff berth, but assuming that's not the case, you deal when the dealing is better - the trade deadline if we're totally out of it, the off-season if we're not - and make deals that build on this team's young core. Any team willing to trade away a first-round pick and two solid skaters five games into the season for players with the recent records of E, Cam or Semin would have made that deal before the season started, and would really hear it from their fans if they made it now. And if the Canes trade away our future, Ronnie will surely hear it from us. 

 

That's exactly where I'm at right now. I don't think this season was ever going to be very easy - especially when the injuries began. With a new coach and so many young players, there's going to be growing pains and adjustments all season long. The important thing is for this team to have a direction and be building a strong future. And I'm not usually one for the rose coloured glasses. Heck, I joined this page because I was so sick of the underachieving and implosions of the past couple years and wanted somewhere to vent with others. This is the first year in a long time that we could miss the playoffs and I'd be OK with it. Don't get me wrong, I'd love this team to succeed this year. If they can start winning games and make the playoffs I'll be as happy as the rest of you. But if not then at least this is a really strong draft year, if this team can play excitiing hockey and develop the kids we should be in good shape going forwards.

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