Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
OBXer

2014/15 In-Season Canes News, Updates and Talk

Recommended Posts

After a month and a couple of games, I'd give my most consistent player on offense title to Jiri Tlusty.  On defense, believe it or not, and based on what he's asked to do, I'd give the most consistent defenseman title to Tim Gleason.  For goaltenders, Ward.

 

Of course, all this is relative to performance against other teammates, and not on results.  Sigh.

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Lindholm is put back on a line with Skinner, expect his +/- to start going south again. Skinner is a minus machine, his defensive play/fight is almost nonexistent in all three zones.

Lindholm has been -6 or something like that with Skinner, he is +3 without him and actually receives a pass from time to time. I think the reason he has been more noticeable and able to produce more offensive pressure is because he doesn't have Skinner out there trying to do everything by himself.

Skinner and Lindholm have shown chemistry in the past, but Lindholm and Gerbe also seem to have chemistry, and honestly I would rather keep that line together. Like others said, if it ain't broke...

I still think Skinner is a selfish player that plays like a woman much of the time. He does have eye-popping skill but beyond that you get nothing, actually you get a liability.

Some will not like this, but that is how I see it. Put Skinner or Semin on the third/fourth/press box line. Mess with second line when it starts looking like it's not working anymore.

I understand these are highly skilled, highly paid players but money/names shouldn't matter. You find what works on the ice and you stick with it until proven otherwise. Whoever is on the the outside looking in......oh well. Figure out why you aren't fitting in and get to work.

.

Edited by Kyrule

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kyrule wrote:

 

I still think Skinner is a selfish player that plays like a woman much of the time. He does have eye-popping skill but beyond that you get nothing, 

 

You're soooo right, Kyrule! He contributes nothing! Except those 54 points in 71 games last year. :rolleyes: 


.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're soooo right, Kyrule! He contributes nothing! Except those 54 points in 71 games last year. :rolleyes:

.

Jeff Skinner:

Games played: 265

Plus/minus: -45

Skinner is a defensive liability, it's been talked about, and it's obvious. He is not physical, he loses board battles, and when he is not crying about a non-call I don't see much leadership. Which leaves you with...?

.

Edited by Kyrule

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeff Skinner:

Games played: 265

Plus/minus: -45

Skinner is a defensive liability, it's been talked about, and it's obvious. He is not physical, he loses board battles, and when he is not crying about a non-call I don't see much leadership. Which leaves you with...?

.

54 points in 71 games.

 

Peters acknowledged that Skinner needs to improve defensively. But the notion of benching him is on the far side of crazy.

 

Eric Staal is -38 lifetime. Playing on a losing team will do that for ya.

Edited by top-shelf-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Skinner is never going to be the prototypical "hockey player" that lays big hits, or really much of any hits.  But there are two things he can do better to me.

 

1. Battle on the boards.

2. Pass. Play off his teammates.

 

I've seen a bit of #1 and even more of #2 in stretches. But then he gets his bell rung and it all goes away. I really think the concussions have played a role in him not developing better there.

 

But he does need to at least bring those to minimum standards. If he can't, and with the concussions, I'm not sure long term.

 

I think he can, but we need to see it.

I think his move to the checking line suggests the coach wants to see it too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would have called anybody crazy that told me Skinner would be on a line with McClement and Dwyer.  So, I guess I'm somewhere between you two.

 

Most probably are.

Honestly, I love the idea, especially with the Canes on the road. Let the home coach figure out how to deal with real scoring threats on every line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Skinner is never going to be the prototypical "hockey player" that lays big hits, or really much of any hits.  But there are two things he can do better to me.

 

1. Battle on the boards.

2. Pass. Play off his teammates.

 

I've seen a bit of #1 and even more of #2 in stretches. But then he gets his bell rung and it all goes away. I really think the concussions have played a role in him not developing better there.

 

But he does need to at least bring those to minimum standards. If he can't, and with the concussions, I'm not sure long term.

 

I think he can, but we need to see it.

I think his move to the checking line suggests the coach wants to see it too.

Well said. (I almost tweeted him encouragement to quit after the last one.)

 

I recall an early (like, preseason) interview with Peters where he called out Skinner's lack of work on D, and said just as quickly that it WILL change. I'd like to think he's right.

 

As for the concussions, all Jeff Skinner needs is to watch "The Rocket," take a couple boxing lessons, and do what Richard did when the league refused to protect him: clock, real good, the next guy that tries to mug him. After that, it won't happen again.

Edited by top-shelf-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think benching him is a appropriate either, that was meant for Semin and I probably should have worded it better.

Still, by the numbers you get a 60 point guy that ends up -11 each year.

Skinner is still young and he could be a superstar, but he needs serious work on parts of his game. My point is find coaching/players that let him develop those skills, don't force him/break up a line just for the sake of a name/salary.

We have been saying he needs to work on his defense for a long time, and so far I just don't see any progress (this year or last). He needs to be better. The organization needs him to be better because his offensive skills are potentially off the charts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think benching him is a appropriate either, that was meant for Semin and I probably should have worded it better.

Still, by the numbers you get a 60 point guy that ends up -11 each year.

Skinner is still young and he could be a superstar, but he needs serious work on parts of his game. My point is find coaching/players that let him develop those skills, don't force him/break up a line just for the sake of a name/salary.

We have been saying he needs to work on his defense for a long time, and so far I just don't see any progress (this year or last). He needs to be better. The organization needs him to be better because his offensive skills are potentially off the charts.

Ahhh, gotcha.

 

I think we have a coach and management in place who are committed to player development at every level, and I think once Jeff sees that it's as much fun to be a pest on the back side as it is in the Ozone, you'll see a whole different dimension to his game.

 

Peters is a meat-and-potatoes, 1-2-3 forecheck, everybody-backcheck kinda guy, and I doubt we'll have to wait many more games to see everybody buzzing in all zones.

Edited by top-shelf-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But there are two things he can do better to me.

 

1. Battle on the boards.

2. Pass. Play off his teammates.

3. Be responsible defensively. Stick to the point man in your own zone, and make a play to get it out of your own zone.

I completely agree about the effect that his concussions have had, and honestly I don't blame him. Still, this is the NHL and it's a big boy's league so he is going to have to work through it.

You made an excellent point when he was concussed earlier this year, saying that you hope it doesn't take him the usual 15-20 games to regain his form. I'm hoping for the same thing and I'm confident he will get there offensively.

Defensively, well, I have serious doubts but I hope he proves me wrong and becomes an elite/complete player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahhh, gotcha.

I think we have a coach and management in place who are committed to player development at every level, and I think once Jeff sees that it's as much fun to be a pest on the back side as it is in the Ozone, you'll see a whole different dimension to his game.

Peters is a meat-and-potatoes, 1-2-3 forecheck, everybody-backcheck kinda guy, and I doubt we'll have to wait many more games to see everybody buzzing in all zones.

The magnitude of the differences in our expectations can't be understated.

I don't mean our expectations are hugely different, what I mean by that is if you are right (and God I hope you are) then we have an elite level player that will lead to wins. If I'm right, we have a soft, highly paid player that consistently has defensive lapses that may lead to more goals against/losses (God I hope I'm wrong).

If his offense dries up........it's too horrible to think about.

On the positive side, if anyone can get the best out of Skinner, I think it's. Peters.

Skinner is a pivotal part of our future in my opinion, and I just get the feeling it will go very well, or very bad.

.

Edited by Kyrule

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3. Be responsible defensively. Stick to the point man in your own zone, and make a play to get it out of your own zone.

I completely agree about the effect that his concussions have had, and honestly I don't blame him. Still, this is the NHL and it's a big boy's league so he is going to have to work through it.

You made an excellent point when he was concussed earlier this year, saying that you hope it doesn't take him the usual 15-20 games to regain his form. I'm hoping for the same thing and I'm confident he will get there offensively.

Defensively, well, I have serious doubts but I hope he proves me wrong and becomes an elite/complete player.

 

Yes, responsible defensively. To me his board work in the defensive zone is a big part of that. He kind of drift and watches, and is just really weak on the boards in the defensive end mostly.

 

In his second year, he came back stronger and faster, and in pre-season was passing and working off his teamates and I thought this is great! Then he got the concussion, and when he came back he was not the same player for a long time. Even when he did get his scoring touch back the playmaking off his teammates seemed to be gone. I'd  have sworn he worked all offseason on some of that and had it concussed right out of him.

 

This year, he got concussed almost too soon to know....

 

From what i've heard from experts some players mature and learn that defensive part of the game and how to play off their teammates and some don't. Jeff is a smart kid, but if he is too gunshy for good reason...

 

Then, as crazy as it sounds, if he can get his numbers back up, maybe he's tradeable. The combination of the concussions, the defensive liability and a rebuild would make that something to at least consider.

 

My hope is that he keeps working on those 2 3 aspects of his game and stops getting his bell rung and we keep him for years, because he is so dang exciting to watch with the puck in the offensive zone.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Skinner will be fine, he could have had 5 goals this weekend if he had a little luck a couple inches this way or that.   What Skinner really needs is highly skilled confident, consistent players on his line. .  Lets say Skins played along side Crosby and malkin........40-50 goals easy every year.   I kind of liked him with E. Staal and Tlusty.  He needs to be with highly skilled players, not be the only highly skilled guy on the line like he has been 50% of every year..  Lindholm is showing signs of being able to be that guy.  As far as his defense goes.......well at least he picks a lot of pockets from behind.  I worry at times that Skinner is gonna realize he could have such a better career elsewhere on a true first line and is gonna want to leave.  Hopefully he either flourishes on the first line or with his boy Lindholm and wants to stay here long term.  He will be a 40plus scorer as he goes through his 20's. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Skinner skates 4th line he will get a defensive workout. If Semin is a no show again Skinner gets to skate 1st and 4th line and Sasha gets a rink side seat.  Peters gets to hedge his bet and send a message at the same time.  Why not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why still the negativity on WARD,  and blue devil island, doesnt sound good.... Just name it   hurricanes ville,  i know most of ya think this is fools gold, i said before and again i say, Wardo is back! Semin, on  him on dancing with the stars, he should be on, , this isnt a show out there, its friggen hockey.. I tell ya, i get a headache from some of the over critique out here.. SERIOUSLY.. Now if the team goes into the dumper, then you can all get on me... Nothing against you blue devil, but something other than Island, sounds way better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Random thoughts that nobody really wants to hear, but I feel like sharing anyway:

 

1.  At this moment, Elias Lindholm is our best player!

2.  Terry / Rask / Boychuck is a really good line.  They make each other better!

3.  The development of Rask and Nash has left only one center position open for a Staal.

4.  If Semin doesn't respond in a big way this week, he should be waived and sent to Charlotte.  Maybe that will make him jump to the KHL.

5.  This system works better with players that go all out all the time rather than individual talent.  If Skinner doesn't adjust, he should be moved for assets that fit the system better...Yandle anyone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The magnitude of the differences in our expectations can't be understated.

I don't mean our expectations are hugely different, what I mean by that is if you are right (and God I hope you are) then we have an elite level player that will lead to wins. If I'm right, we have a soft, highly paid player that consistently has defensive lapses that may lead to more goals against/losses (God I hope I'm wrong).

If his offense dries up........it's too horrible to think about.

On the positive side, if anyone can get the best out of Skinner, I think it's. Peters.

Skinner is a pivotal part of our future in my opinion, and I just get the feeling it will go very well, or very bad.

.

I agree with all your points, actually; whether Skinner figures out how to play in the NHL - and make defensive contributions - will determine his tenure in the league. Hopefully he is following Gerbe's example and training hard. I thought it was interesting that in his first game back (WPG) he took two "take-no-crap" penalties, roughing and hi-sticking. I'd like to see more of that (without the time in the sin bin). 

 

He is a pivotal part of our future, but not to the extent he was even last year. Lindy, Rask, Nash, Terry, I'll even go Bowman (what a nifty move off the boards against LA) are taking some of the attention off of him, I think, and given the work he has to do that is good.

 

That being said, the league's failure to protect him is shameful. There is no question that he needs to be more aware of threats and meet them head-on (no pun intended), but Niskanen's hit, while it did not initially target the head, was clearly an elbow call at minimum. There is zero question in my mind that the NHL did not want any suspensions for hits to the head becoming its lead story during opening week, and good on Skinner for taking the high road (and maybe using a bit of reverse psychology) in saying "I don't think it was intentional and I would hope no one in the league would target guys' heads" - but the rule on elbowing is very clear: if your elbow is away from your body and you use it to make contact, regardless of intent or lack or intent to cause injury, it's elbowing. If that penalty gets called the play gets more scrutiny, and if the play gets more scrutiny, Niskanen misses the Caps opener and the NHL is dealing with a "PR problem" (never mind the long-term effects on Skinner, a former rookie of the year) as it opens a new season.

 

As for his minuses, I'm not excusing them, but will just reiterate than when you are playing big minutes on a losing team, you'll get them. Regarding his +/- for this year specifically, I think you need to throw out the Calgary game completely. Skinner and three other players were -3 just that night (Sekera, Lindy and Faulk).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Random thoughts that nobody really wants to hear, but I feel like sharing anyway:

 

1.  At this moment, Elias Lindholm is our best player!

2.  Terry / Rask / Boychuck is a really good line.  They make each other better!

3.  The development of Rask and Nash has left only one center position open for a Staal.

4.  If Semin doesn't respond in a big way this week, he should be waived and sent to Charlotte.  Maybe that will make him jump to the KHL.

5.  This system works better with players that go all out all the time rather than individual talent.  If Skinner doesn't adjust, he should be moved for assets that fit the system better...Yandle anyone?

1. I give it to Tlusty.

2. Yes. Great to see these guys building off each other.

3. Here's hoping Peters sticks to his stated plan of putting Eric on his brother's wing. I am really eager to see what they could do.

4. Yep.

5. Not sure how Skinner has "not adjusted" to a team game. He goes wherever he's asked, leaves it all out there every shift. Yandle? Seriously?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Guys, haven't posted very much recently because of the funk I've lived with over our horrid play. Now seeing the proverbial "light at the end of the tunnel", bringing me back out.

 

A hypothetical question I'd like to pose to all, What happens if on Semen's return, he again fails to meet Peters' expectations? I mean, what recourse are we left with then? I don't believe I've either seen or heard from anyone what contingency there is if this occurs, and I just hope that it's not something we have to face.

 

Granted, this team under Peters' tutelage looks as if it could survive that hit, but then what's left? Certainly, with the 2 "strikes", trading him becomes extremely problematic, unless RF eats some salary or takes back an equally unattractive contract.

 

Placing him on waivers to send down to Charlotte? Nah, won't work.

 

Hope he gets discouraged enough to bolt for the KHL? Someone explain to me what that does for this team in terms of his salary and Cap hit. I know the Canes still retain his contract for X yrs, but does that still take up Cap Space? 

 

Just a few questions on this beautiful November day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Guys, haven't posted very much recently because of the funk I've lived with over our horrid play. Now seeing the proverbial "light at the end of the tunnel", bringing me back out.

 

A hypothetical question I'd like to pose to all, What happens if on Semen's return, he again fails to meet Peters' expectations? I mean, what recourse are we left with then? I don't believe I've either seen or heard from anyone what contingency there is if this occurs, and I just hope that it's not something we have to face.

 

Granted, this team under Peters' tutelage looks as if it could survive that hit, but then what's left? Certainly, with the 2 "strikes", trading him becomes extremely problematic, unless RF eats some salary or takes back an equally unattractive contract.

 

Placing him on waivers to send down to Charlotte? Nah, won't work.

 

Hope he gets discouraged enough to bolt for the KHL? Someone explain to me what that does for this team in terms of his salary and Cap hit. I know the Canes still retain his contract for X yrs, but does that still take up Cap Space? 

 

Just a few questions on this beautiful November day.

Personally I think what' s happening here is that the organization is hoping to light a fire under Semin for however long it takes to restore some trade value in him. I think they know what he is about and don't want to stay on the roller coaster. If he plays well from now until the end of the year I think he will be gone for picks and prospects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CH, I am totally on board with your thoughts, but my question was and is, What do we(RF actually and Peters) do if this "enigmatic player" does not respond as they anticipate? How does one then go forward? Do you just stand pat, and leave him on the 1st line hoping that he eventually gets the message? That would seem to undermine the basic tenet that Peters exposes.

Do you then move him down a line or two or put his butt back on the bench? Put on waivers intending to send him to Charlotte?

All seem very complicated if he remains that enigmatic player he has a reputation of being.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. I give it to Tlusty.

2. Yes. Great to see these guys building off each other.

3. Here's hoping Peters sticks to his stated plan of putting Eric on his brother's wing. I am really eager to see what they could do.

4. Yep.

5. Not sure how Skinner has "not adjusted" to a team game. He goes wherever he's asked, leaves it all out there every shift. Yandle? Seriously?

 

1.  Pretty hard to argue with that...

5.  Forcheck / Backcheck / Neutral Zone / Defensive Zone / Skate without the Puck

Edited by cclifford10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...