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Carolina has a pretty decent draft history as far as 1st rounders.  Our problem is our draft picks were traded away in the past.

 

2002- Cam Ward.  Still starting.

2003- Eric Staal.  Still starting.

2004- Andrew Ladd- Traded for Ruutu- Traded for Loktionov- Nothing

2005- Jack Johnson- Traded for Gleason (we all know the story)- Next to Nothing

2006- No 1st round pick (who'd we get in exchange? Doug Weight?)- Nothing

2007- Brandon Sutter- Traded for Jordan- Nothing this season

2008- Zach Boychuck- on current roster, not great but not horrible

2009- Philippe Paradis- Traded for Tlusty- leading goal scorer currently

2010- Jeff Skinner.  Still playing.

2011- Ryan Murphy- Developing as we speak.  I think he has upside, but I doubt he's going to live up to it in Carolina.

2012- Traded to Pittburgh for Jordan- Nothing this season

2013- Elias Lindholm.  Developing as we speak.  Tremendous upside.

2014- Haydn Fleury.  Developing.

 

In the past 10 years, we've traded away 6 first rounders and all we have to show for those 6 are Jordan, Tlusty, and Gleason.  That's what is unacceptable.  The only bust in that group as of December 9th, 2014 is Boychuck, which was a mid-round pick.

 

The formula for a lot of current contenders is to draft star players, and mix in with key veterans.  The key to successful drafting is to draft the right players to build around.  A team like Edmonton has only really drafted one or two players worth building around (Hall & Hopkins).  Besides Taylor Hall, I remember a lot of people saying they should've sent there other yutes to the minors for awhile to develop, but they chose otherwise.  You look at a team like the Islanders, and what's changed between now and previous seasons?  This past offseason they signed multiple free agents to go along with the properly drafted players they already had (Tavares, Nelson, Okposo).

 

There has to be a balance of drafting and veterans to make a good team.  Where Carolina can favor from that formula moving forward is as long as we don't trade away all our veterans, we'll have a few to continue to build around (Jordan, Skinner, Faulk) and start the drafting part of the process.

 

 

2006- No 1st round pick (who'd we get in exchange? Doug Weight?)- Stanley Cup.

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I think we have been in a rebuild since RF took over but nobody (save PK who hinted at it) is going to say it. Also agree with the comment above that with the dollar amount of some of the contracts we would like to have, or needed to move, some needed changes were not possible last summer. A team with playoff aspirations but near the cap is not going to be able to absorb more of E. Staal's contract than the amount left near the trade deadline. But I think the writing is on the wall, and even if E likes playing here and playing with his brother, I have no doubt that the chance to go to a contender where he would be the 2nd, 3rd or 4th scoring option and thus not pummelled every night would be appealing to him.

 

I see hiring Peters and some other moves as indicative that we are "rebuilding" in the Detroit style. We have added at least 2 scouts this year. Add in picking up a young guy with upside like Nestrasil when available, and I believe we see the start of a youth movement. We have 4 prospects going to World Juniors, and I think when the calendar turns over, anybody over 25 better keep a bag packed, because I believe some familiar names will be leaving. At 8-16-3 I don't think there is any rational explanation for our plight except the group we have is not the right group. Jordan Staal would not have turned around that 8-16 to 16-8, and Semin's woes may be partially injury related, but when he is called out for lack of effort, that tells you there is also a bigger problem. We are not one veteran coming back or playing better away from being a playoff contender.

 

I think (hope) that we can shed some of our older players for prospects and draft picks and play out the season with young players giving it their all, knowing that we might have to bear the pain of finishing near the bottom. One thing that has hurt this team the last few years is being in solid contention for a top pick with 10 or 12 games to go, only then to put things together, win 4 or 5 in a row, and drop 5 spots in the draft order. No offense to Lindholm, but who would not rather have had Mackinnon or Drouin or Jones. With 6 or 7 games left that season, it looked like we would get one of those players. I think our organizational philosophy of bottom feeding for castoffs or cheap veterans has changed, and the emphasis now is going to be on young players who can turn around the team for the long term. I just hope the long term is in Raleigh.

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Had a feeling scoring would slow dramatically with Nash, Lindholm, Rask, Boychuck.  And as usual our star forwards are slumping and we are losing a lot.   Our record is miserable but our play is actually exciting and hopeful.  We are consistently fast, crisp with passing, good defense good goaltending and work ethic.   Everyone elses big money stars score like they are supposed to, why can't ours year in and year out?   Staal, Skinner, Semin, Tlusty all slump and we lose 8 out of 10.  Then they get hot and we win 5 in a row.  Gonna be the trend all season I guess. 

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I was thinking the same thing.  They need veteran players on that team, and we need better youngsters on ours.  I was thinking something along the lines of Eric/Murphy for Nail/Schultz/1st rounder(which will be a top 5 pick this draft).  They'd make the perfect trade partners.

Sure - if any on the Canes side wanted to LIVE in Edmonton during the winter! (It is actually quite beautiful in spring. Which is also known as the first week in August. "Summer" is the second week, fall is third...) 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Peters said may be time to shuffle the deck. Mentioned Staal maybe moving to wing and Lindholm to center

 

 

AS Obxer quoted Chip....

 

My take: time for Lindholm to get ready to play first line center....soon he will be it.

If we want to still win games this season - and I think we do - I just don't get not putting Nash there. It would be essentially the same move as putting Jordan there, style-wise. Nash is big, defensive-minded with great offensive upside, and he wins a lot of faceoffs. Except for in the dot, Lindy is the opposite of that. Force E to play with Nash for the next month and see how it goes/looks, and who knows? Maybe they find chemistry and Jordan can center Lindy and Skinner when he comes back, as he did several times late last year with fair success. If Nash/E don't work out, E would still have a month on the wing with a guy who plays like his bro, and Jordan can step in. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Neither Staal or Semin at practice this morning. I did see E should be ok to play against TB.

 

Peters post morning skate

 

http://downloads.hurricanes.nhl.com/audio1415/peters121014.mp3

After hearing that, Cam is going nowhere anytime soon. 

 

You know, if E/Semin was having the kind of comeback season (I think we can begin calling it that now) that Cam is, the entire tone of this thread would be soooooo freakin' different, eh?

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You know, if E/Semin was having the kind of comeback season (I think we can begin calling it that now) that Cam is, the entire tone of this thread would be soooooo freakin' different, eh?

 

Amen to that. Add in Jordan not breaking his leg...ah....some of us would look a bit better too, us and our Islands of days gone past might not be a punchline..

 

But it has gone the way it's gone.

Edited by remkin

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After hearing that, Cam is going nowhere anytime soon. 

 

You know, if E/Semin was having the kind of comeback season (I think we can begin calling it that now) that Cam is, the entire tone of this thread would be soooooo freakin' different, eh?

 

Honestly I don't think E is playing the poorly. Do we need more goals from him...yes. But in the absence of J he is doing some of the heavy lifting and he seems to me to be engaged. I'm sure he is frustrated but he seems to be a pro about it.

 

If everyone had been healthy to start the season and Semin wasn't struggling it would have been different. We would probable be in playoff contention. But even with all troops on board some of us (me) had doubts we weren't a top 6 player away from being a playoff team.

 

Ward is certainly a high point in the season but I'm not sure he will be our future. I think this team is looking down the road and if we feel we can't re-sign him after next season I expect we would at the very least entertain offers. Please don't misunderstand me, I would be very happy if Ward-O stays. I'm just not sure it is in the cards.

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1. Honestly I don't think E is playing the poorly. Do we need more goals from him...yes. But in the absence of J he is doing some of the heavy lifting and he seems to me to be engaged. I'm sure he is frustrated but he seems to be a pro about it.

 

2. Ward is certainly a high point in the season but I'm not sure he will be our future. I think this team is looking down the road and if we feel we can't re-sign him after next season I expect we would at the very least entertain offers. Please don't misunderstand me, I would be very happy if Ward-O stays. I'm just not sure it is in the cards.

 

1) I think it's often hard for people to adjust perceptions when something changes.   

 

2) If that's the case (and it very may well be) I sure wish we'd give Dobby some more games.  I'd like a bit more confirmation than just 65 NHL games that he's our future.  I'm not saying he isn't/ shouldn't be, I just think it would be prudent to up his sample size before making that decision. 

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I agree that we need to start folding in some Khudoben starts. That's why I thought he would certainly start the NJ game on the back to back. If the plan is to move Ward later, then it would make sense to let him continue to establish his value as a #1, as well as to continue to let his much better play since Nov. 1 average into his yearly stats. He has something like around at .925 save % since Nov 1, but still only .908 on the year due to the bad start.  

 

If one had a long term, speculative, almost conspiracy side to them, one might say that NJ is a team that doesn't put up a lot of goals, could be good for the save %. Also, keep racking up the starts to show he's a true #1. 

 

Whether or not to trade Cam is it's own thread. The better he plays, the more he'll return, and the less people will want to trade him. Buying low and selling high is easier said than done in life, and in hockey. 

 

He is still relatively young. He has that efficiency of technique that guys like Forslund love, and insist he's the real deal, whereas Khudobin doesn't. The Bruins let Khudobin go for nothing. We have a couple of good prospects in goal, but they are a couple of years away. 

 

It all comes down to return and contracts. If Ward would bring back a first round pick and a top defensive prospect? 

 

So then it gets back to being certain that Khudobin can carry the team for at least two years. Otherwise we step onto the find a goalie carousel that has plagued more than a few teams....

 

Ward was all but gone for a half a potato chip if anyone would take his contract just a few months ago. Now he might really bring back some very key pieces and free up a lot of salary. But you NEED a goalie...

 

Personally, I think Khudobin is good enough. He had a good enough winning percentage last year that if he had in theory started every game, we'd have made or been very close to making the playoffs. After a slow start he too is playing better, though snake bit in wins, he's also drawn the short stick on a lot of undesirable starts. 

 

Ward and E are the now older core. They draw a lot of salary. Wonder what the offers for Ward are right now?

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Honestly I don't think E is playing the poorly. Do we need more goals from him...yes. But in the absence of J he is doing some of the heavy lifting and he seems to me to be engaged. I'm sure he is frustrated but he seems to be a pro about it.

 

I think Eric has been giving it a professional chance also. I think he is trying to do what the coach is asking. He has tried to get to the net more. He is perhaps also played some while dinged up.

 

That said, his plus minus is the same as Semin's. He is on a roughly 50 point pace. If he were not being paid to produce around 80 points, that would be fine. 50 points is nothing to be ashamed of in the NHL, but 50 point guys make half or less of what Eric makes.

 

And if we're honest, E. has a lot of garbage points. He is the king of empy net points.

 

To my eye E is still a good player, but he has lost that dynamic step. That ability to fly. He has lost the thing that makes him worth the pay he is getting. I'm still betting it's injury related. He has not been that ppg guy since the knee. But who knows?

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After hearing that, Cam is going nowhere anytime soon. 

 

You know, if E/Semin was having the kind of comeback season (I think we can begin calling it that now) that Cam is, the entire tone of this thread would be soooooo freakin' different, eh?

 

No question Peters values him. In fact despite my conspiracy theories, I think Cam took the back to back because Peters wants to ride him for wins, not to showcase. Further, successful teams need the Ward we have seen since Nov. 1.

 

Can he keep it up at this level here? There were two plus years of a very different Ward.....

 

We talk of the Semin delemma. There may be a bit of a Ward delemma. Now that he is playing so well he is probably building value. But if he has 5 more good years in him....gotta have good goaltending....

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No question Peters values him. In fact despite my conspiracy theories, I think Cam took the back to back because Peters wants to ride him for wins, not to showcase. Further, successful teams need the Ward we have seen since Nov. 1.

 

Can he keep it up at this level here? There were two plus years of a very different Ward.....

 

We talk of the Semin delemma. There may be a bit of a Ward delemma. Now that he is playing so well he is probably building value. But if he has 5 more good years in him....gotta have good goaltending....

I gotta tell you, when you look at this club's history with Ward, I don't fault him one iota for throwing up his hands and essentially saying "Whatever," after a few years of playing for Paul Maurice. The lack of scoring (run support) wears a keeper out mentally as well as physically, and I think Cam's issues had a lot more to do with his refusal to acknowledge that he was getting older, and therefore could not be as athletic as he once was - at least not without risking injury. Clearly that sank in over the summer and he got what he needed to address it. Great, in-depth piece on it here.

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That is a nice article Top. 

 

Seems to be coming together for him. Unfortunately, we just can't get our big money guys healthy and productive on the ice at the same time....

 

This year and next year under contract....

 

This year is all but shot, next year a rebuild year....

 

Do you trade him at some point this year?

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Detroit builds by finding players that fit their system. They typically don't have 1st round draft picks. They scout for those hidden gems later in the rounds.

Here are a few examples:

Pavel Datsyuk, Drafted in 1998 in the 6th round

Henrik Zetterberg, Drafted in 1999 in the 7th round

Johan Franzen, Drafted in 2004 in the 3rd round

Justin Abdelkader, Drafted in 2005 in the 2nd round

Darren Helm, Drafted in 2005 in the 5th round

Tomas Tatar, Drafted in 2009 in the 2nd round

Petr Mrazek, Drafted in 2010 in the 5th round (The goalie who beat us Sunday)

They draft for their AHL team, develop and do not rush players to the NHL until they feel they are NHL ready.

Perhaps the Canes should take heed and look at Charlotte. How are we developing our future players? Have we been sucessful in doing so? Is Jeff Daniels imploring the same game plan and system down there as Coach Peters is here? If not, are changes needed there?

 

 

I see what you're saying, but Rem has a point that drafting an Eichel or McDavid doesn't stop you from drafting and developing well in the later rounds. Doing both is the best way to guarantee success for sure. Datsyuk and Zetterberg were amazing finds by Detroit, but for the sake of argument I take them out of the list you're trying to make. Scouting and projections have improved so much the last 10 or so years, and I don't see picks like them ever really happening anymore (which makes it more amazing that Detroit pulled it off twice).

 

The others really make the most impact to me and show what an organization shoud strive for. None of them are all-stars like the first two who you would these days associate with first round picks, but as you said they are drafted to fill different needs or roles and are developed so well. That's what makes them a constant contender, they can lose players to injuries and have so much organizational depth to fill the ranks. That has been the Canes biggest failure, developing later round picks to help out on the second and third lines.

 

I would say that at least it's getting better. Just out of curiosity, I went on the NHL site one day and looked through every Canes draft from 1998 until now. And seeing that, how this team ever won anything just amazes me. Other than backing into a few easy top picks like Staal, Ladd and Johnson, and getting Ward nicely at 25th, there was nothing to be proud of. Especially outside the first round, the amount of players that the Canes were able to turn into NHLers over a 10 year period was basically zero. It was embarassing really. At least in the last few years with guys like Faulk, Rask, McGinn, and some of the others it is getting better.

 

The development part is where (and I expect some hate for this) when Jordan comes back, I wouldn't be against having Rask be sent down. He's definitely exceeded everyones expectations and has shown that he can play at this level to his credit. But he is still quite young and inexperienced, and has shown that at times when being overslotted. If the coaches believe its better for his long term development to play some more in the AHL, then I say for sure do it.

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Had a feeling scoring would slow dramatically with Nash, Lindholm, Rask, Boychuck.  And as usual our star forwards are slumping and we are losing a lot.   Our record is miserable but our play is actually exciting and hopeful.  We are consistently fast, crisp with passing, good defense good goaltending and work ethic.   Everyone elses big money stars score like they are supposed to, why can't ours year in and year out?   Staal, Skinner, Semin, Tlusty all slump and we lose 8 out of 10.  Then they get hot and we win 5 in a row.  Gonna be the trend all season I guess. 

 

I'm not surprised about that at all either. It's nice that they were able to put up some points, but it was bound to slow down before long. And reading posts on the GDTs about how Jagr or Datsyuk score against us when the team needs it, its very apparent that you need big guns going to compete at this level. Now our big guys have not done that for a long time, and it seems that we may have the wrong stars on this team. But also I can never understand or agree when some on here think we should get rid of our Staals, Semins, etc for "a bag of pucks" either. What does that accomplish??

 

To make the team worse, just for the sake of not having to see them make more money than us for what we perceive to be less effort than we think we would personally put in for that money? As if its a personal attack on us, or that our own financial wellbeing or happiness is dependent on whether they are "earning" those millions in our eyes? Are we jealous, or have our own egos that make us prefer to have a probable worse team, as long as we're not "overpaying" for anyone? Come on, time to get off of our high horses here and let's look at the HOCKEY.

 

Say we trade Staal and Semin tomorrow for nothing. We save around 16 million this year and more in the future. So what?? Are we as fans, or even some of you as season ticket holders, going to be receiving benefit cheques in the mail for the money we'll no longer be giving them? Of course not, so unless your name is Peter Karmanos, it doesn't matter at all. Now if you say there are some free agents this year you really want and that money is better spent on those players than Staal and Semin, then fair enough. That is a good HOCKEY reason to make moves and I'll happily discuss with you. But salary space just for the sake of having salary space is something that doesn't make sense for any fan to cheer for.

 

That stat about Riley Nash awhile ago being first in points per dollar was cool and all, but ultimately meaningless. I want this team to be first in the actual NHL standings, not tops in points per dollar. If it was possible for the Canes to find a loophole and spend $100 million a year then I would be all for it, and so should all other fans because that would give you the best chance to put a top team together. That's what the trophy at the end of the year is for, the best team period.

 

I'm not against trading guys like Staal, but it needs to be for a purpose. There are two gamechangers in this years draft. So if you want to trade our stars for picks, race to the bottom and try to get as much young talent as possible on the team in the couple years, that is definitely viable. Or maybe you want to trade for someone on another team who you think could work out well here. These are all potentially good HOCKEY reasons to look at making trades as well. But the whole point is to make the team better, not just to get rid of them because you don't want to see them get paychecks from this team.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm as happy as everyone else to see guys like Gerbe and Nash playing well, and I hope they can continue to impress. But let's not lose sight of why they are so good to have. They are great supporting players. They can be used to round out a team very well. But they aren't top guys. If you want to get rid of stars that are underachieving (Staal, Semin, Skinner maybe) and lean on those guys and the Boychuks, Rasks, Terrys, then prepare to be really, really, bad. As in like Buffalo bad.

 

I get the argument to develop the young guys and that is definitely important for the future. But eventually you will still need some stars to compete. If you think that even after a few years developing that this team can into the playoffs with Nash, Rask, Gerbe, Nestrasil, etc leading the way and compete for the Cup because they work really hard every night and the system is good then I got some bad news. Look at all the teams that consistently compete, whether its Kane and Toews in Chicago, Crosby Malkin in Pittsburgh, Quick Doughty and Kopitar in LA and it becomes pretty obvious.

 

Like I said at the start, its looking more like we have the wrong stars on this team. But just because we have been burned by some of our top players in recent years not performing up to expectations, doesn't mean we should abandon the idea of having high paid stars on our team in the future. Its always risk/reward. If you never give any players big contracts then you never have to worry about being disappointed if they underachieve again, so its a safe way to go. But you'll never challenge for a top spot that way either.

 

(Just to be clear, this rant wasn't meant as an attack on any one person or post, more just some general thoughts and feelings I've seen on here over the last two months or so that I thought about responding to for a while)

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Sask, I don't think anybody here's taking these salaries as you're describing.  The fact of the matter is our dollars are directly funding these players Maserati's and Mansions as well as their mediocrity.  And $16million dollars that's not going to use does effect the bottom line of an organization who's second to last in attendance and has always been a budget team.  I personally don't blame either of them for their contracts.  If someone who knows my history of inconsistent play and still wants to pay me 7-9 million a year, i'm not turning it down.  But at the same time, you play inconsistently, you deserve criticism and you deserve to be traded.  

 

And the problem with our big guns are they're playing like prospects.  This organization has coddled some of its players for too long.  Quite honestly, while Staal is still a good player, I don't think he has the championship/competitive drive to be captain, let alone potentially lead this team to another championship.  We aren't currently competing with our stars, so exploring trade options is rational.

 

And I don't think anybody wants to trade these guys just for money.  In the NFL, there's a popular saying that free agency is for losers.  Most high impact players, with exception to Suter/Parise, are locked up to their respected franchises.  They'll probably never be consecutive years where there are more than 2 all star level players available in free agency.  Free agency is mostly used for making good teams great team.  And with Eric, I think we can get some significant value for him.  Semin, not so much.

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Remkin wrote:

 

That is a nice article Top. 

 

Seems to be coming together for him. Unfortunately, we just can't get our big money guys healthy and productive on the ice at the same time....

 

This year and next year under contract....

 

This year is all but shot, next year a rebuild year....

 

Do you trade him at some point this year?

 

Top replies: I leave it up to him.

 

Both Cam and Eric have said this is where they want to be, but only one of them is playing like that's the case.

 

**This year** is a rebuild year, the continuation of the rebuild that began TWO years ago. The difference is that when the trade deadline comes this time, RF will pull the trigger - and the new group will have a couple of months together at NHL speed under their belts going into next fall. It's the Calgary model, and it's the trigger JR should have pulled, but he was more interested in defending his indefensible signings. 

 

When I suggested last season that the rebuild had started with bringing in Muller, a coach with a reputation for working effectively with yutes, some on this board howled in disagreement. In hindsight, it's easy to see the yutes bought into Kirk's system, equally clear that they've bought into Peters'. But Muller's constant "accentuation of the positive" wasn't working with the vets, so even if Cam had stayed healthy last year it wouldn't have made a damned bit of difference. Without the buy-in of the (supposed) team leaders - as we're seeing YET AGAIN this season - great goaltending (which we got last year in spades from Khudo) will only get you so far.

 

But now we've got "the Hammer." And how has that worked out? Eric and Semin and Tlusty are still using the edges of their blades for cutting circles to stay in the FLOW of play instead of for slamming on the brakes and accelerating in order to MAKE plays. So it falls to Ronnie to be the ultimate enforcer and move their behinds.

 

Goaltending isn't the problem. Laziness and a lack of desperation at the top of the roster is the problem. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I am probably one of the few who doesn't want E Staal traded. I think he is still a good player but injuries have taken a toll. He is just not the best player on the team anymore and may never be again. I think he cares very much and proved it by playing the night after blocking that shot. We don't have free agents lining up to come here.

I like Skinner but IMHO he doesn't fit Peters system. I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved. Unfortunately Semin is unmovable so the best we can probably hope for is for him to get healthy and find his game.

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I'm not surprised about that at all either. It's nice that they were able to put up some points, but it was bound to slow down before long. And reading posts on the GDTs about how Jagr or Datsyuk score against us when the team needs it, its very apparent that you need big guns going to compete at this level. Now our big guys have not done that for a long time, and it seems that we may have the wrong stars on this team. But also I can never understand or agree when some on here think we should get rid of our Staals, Semins, etc for "a bag of pucks" either. What does that accomplish??

 

To make the team worse, just for the sake of not having to see them make more money than us for what we perceive to be less effort than we think we would personally put in for that money? As if its a personal attack on us, or that our own financial wellbeing or happiness is dependent on whether they are "earning" those millions in our eyes? Are we jealous, or have our own egos that make us prefer to have a probable worse team, as long as we're not "overpaying" for anyone? Come on, time to get off of our high horses here and let's look at the HOCKEY.

 

Say we trade Staal and Semin tomorrow for nothing. We save around 16 million this year and more in the future. So what?? Are we as fans, or even some of you as season ticket holders, going to be receiving benefit cheques in the mail for the money we'll no longer be giving them? Of course not, so unless your name is Peter Karmanos, it doesn't matter at all. Now if you say there are some free agents this year you really want and that money is better spent on those players than Staal and Semin, then fair enough. That is a good HOCKEY reason to make moves and I'll happily discuss with you. But salary space just for the sake of having salary space is something that doesn't make sense for any fan to cheer for.

 

That stat about Riley Nash awhile ago being first in points per dollar was cool and all, but ultimately meaningless. I want this team to be first in the actual NHL standings, not tops in points per dollar. If it was possible for the Canes to find a loophole and spend $100 million a year then I would be all for it, and so should all other fans because that would give you the best chance to put a top team together. That's what the trophy at the end of the year is for, the best team period.

 

I'm not against trading guys like Staal, but it needs to be for a purpose. There are two gamechangers in this years draft. So if you want to trade our stars for picks, race to the bottom and try to get as much young talent as possible on the team in the couple years, that is definitely viable. Or maybe you want to trade for someone on another team who you think could work out well here. These are all potentially good HOCKEY reasons to look at making trades as well. But the whole point is to make the team better, not just to get rid of them because you don't want to see them get paychecks from this team.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm as happy as everyone else to see guys like Gerbe and Nash playing well, and I hope they can continue to impress. But let's not lose sight of why they are so good to have. They are great supporting players. They can be used to round out a team very well. But they aren't top guys. If you want to get rid of stars that are underachieving (Staal, Semin, Skinner maybe) and lean on those guys and the Boychuks, Rasks, Terrys, then prepare to be really, really, bad. As in like Buffalo bad.

 

I get the argument to develop the young guys and that is definitely important for the future. But eventually you will still need some stars to compete. If you think that even after a few years developing that this team can into the playoffs with Nash, Rask, Gerbe, Nestrasil, etc leading the way and compete for the Cup because they work really hard every night and the system is good then I got some bad news. Look at all the teams that consistently compete, whether its Kane and Toews in Chicago, Crosby Malkin in Pittsburgh, Quick Doughty and Kopitar in LA and it becomes pretty obvious.

 

Like I said at the start, its looking more like we have the wrong stars on this team. But just because we have been burned by some of our top players in recent years not performing up to expectations, doesn't mean we should abandon the idea of having high paid stars on our team in the future. Its always risk/reward. If you never give any players big contracts then you never have to worry about being disappointed if they underachieve again, so its a safe way to go. But you'll never challenge for a top spot that way either.

 

(Just to be clear, this rant wasn't meant as an attack on any one person or post, more just some general thoughts and feelings I've seen on here over the last two months or so that I thought about responding to for a while)

Okay, the "bag of pucks" thing (guilty!) was a little over the top, and born more of utter frustration than a serious suggestion. But that said, I'll answer the question about what just getting rid of overpaid non-performers accomplishes.

 

It rids the organization of a poison. And that, I assure you, is said in complete sincerity born of 30 years of management experience.

 

When an org - any org - has people at the top who are (1) not doing the job they are tasked with, and/or (2) overpaid based on their performance, those people "poison" that org, because they are looked at by others as "apparently doing a good enough job to still be here."

 

I don't want to get too into the psychology of it, but whether they are openly poisonous (i.e., openly challenging the rules and dictates of their bosses) or subtly so (half-assing it and not merely getting away with it but still being rewarded handsomely), these people are setting an example that others see, see tolerated, and wonder "*edit*??"

 

Peters has talked a good game about holding players accountable, but the first one he chose was apparently still hampered by a wrist issue - and the guy lives and dies by his WRIST SHOT. (I am also, in hindsight, wondering whether Peters' one-game trial in preseason of giving Alex the A was not an attempt to shield Eric somewhat.)

 

Peters also kept Staal in the lineup Monday, despite having Malone ready to go and having a perfect excuse for sitting Eric without having to call it a healthy scratch. He even set it up perfectly in the media by taking about sending Malone to the front of the net to create screens. He could have pulled Eric aside and said, "As far as the fans know you're injured, and I want you to heal. But between you and me, you are out of excuses come Thursday in Tampa Bay."

 

Peters' "hammer" hasn't even taken minutes away from Eric. Until it does, his message that "everyone is accountable" will ring hollow.

 

Nash should be centering the first line, Eric should be a third-line center at best (if he insists on centering) or a first-line winger, his choice. It's easy to guess which he'll choose. And if he doesn't start taking shots as first-line wing - he has 15 in his last FIVE GAMES, while Skinner has 14 in his LAST TWO - he should lose that slot, too.

 

So should we want more than a bag o' pucks for our "top" talent? Sure. But based on their performance so far - and their poisoning effect on the 80 percent of the roster that is working its tail off, night in and night out - if that's the best we can get, it would still, in terms of the organization's future, be worth doing.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I am probably one of the few who doesn't want E Staal traded. I think he is still a good player but injuries have taken a toll. He is just not the best player on the team anymore and may never be again. I think he cares very much and proved it by playing the night after blocking that shot. We don't have free agents lining up to come here.

I like Skinner but IMHO he doesn't fit Peters system. I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved. Unfortunately Semin is unmovable so the best we can probably hope for is for him to get healthy and find his game.

Wow. Really? Skinner is 8 years younger than Staal, scored 33 goals last year, has chemistry with Lindy, Nash, Rask, Gerbe, Jordan - pretty much everyone he plays with - and he "doesn't fit Peters' system"? A system which emphasizes quickness, an unrelenting forecheck and snipers (Skinner is one) who pick corners while big guys screen the keeper?

 

Can you clear any of that up for me?

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Nash should be centering the first line, Eric should be a third-line center at best (if he insists on centering) or a first-line winger, his choice. It's easy to guess which he'll choose. And if he doesn't start taking shots as first-line wing - he has 15 in his last FIVE GAMES, while Skinner has 14 in his LAST TWO - he should lose that slot, too.

Eric has not been skating or playing well. He looks lost. I think a move to the wing is the last possible thing we can try to see if he can find his game.

Nash started hot, but he has not been playing very well either. He is a solid third liner and that's about it. I haven't really looked much at the recent statistics, but the eye test says that Rask is the one that seems to be developing into a top six, maybe top line, center. I think if I was the coach, and I really don't understand why RF didn't call me for an interview :D, I would put Skinner / Rask / Lindholm together and see what they could do as a unit.

Edited by cclifford10

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If we use Peters methodology, Nash deserves top 6 time as he has been the most consistent player on the team over the course of the season. Using the same methodology, Staal needs to be 3rd line center. Now that Eric's shield (Alex) has said "no mas" all eyes should be on the captain. Staal was shielded by JR/Mueller, it's time the hammer is finally focused strictly on him. No more excuses Eric,it's not about the other guys around you to make you tick,it's about you leading those around you.If you want to stay in Carolina then prove your worth and demonstrate why we should keep you. The tide has turned and you no longer are the straw that stirs the drink. The organization no longer will be built around you as the Yutes are hungry and we hopefully will have a nice draft pick this year.IMO I would trade Eric as soon as possible,save some bucks and help build the org with the infusion of Eric's salary. Loosing Eric at this point will not make any difference,can't go any lower than last place.

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