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I don't judge by play of the last month.  I judge by what I have seen over the past couple of years.  I feel that if we traded him for a top 2 dman we would be in much better shape.

Okay, I see your point. I totally disagree, but I see your point :)

 

Our problem isn't D when we're consistently losing by 2-1, largely on flukey goals by the opposition. Our problem is forwards who can't put the puck in the net in any situation, be it even strength or PP. So on a team of non-scorers, you are suggesting trading the only true scorer we have (33 goals last season), who is eight years younger than our last true scorer, and has chemistry with everybody he skates with, and who is evolving into a pretty solid playmaker.

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You have my vote.

The only problem: Peters already tried that and concluded Rask is not ready for first-line responsibility yet. 

 

I was surprised to see Eric at C again last night after all the talk about moving him to wing now. I hope to God he hasn't talked to Ronnie and put him over the same barrel he had JR.

 

Which is the problem with NTCs. I can totally imagine E saying, "Look, if you move me to wing with anybody but J at center, I'll play there. Just don't ask me to waive my NTC come the trade deadline."

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Eric Staal never was a center, he still isn't, and until he is willing to park himself in front of the net, get cross-checked, pushed and shoved to battle for position so he can screen the goalie and collect the trash (not to mention GET BACK ON DEFENSE!), he never will be. That's what successful centers do in this league.

 

Just look at any Eric Staal highlight reel on YouTube. He is at his best making plays and shooting from the perimeter. That makes him a natural winger, and his own stubbornness about playing there is largely responsible for his declining effectiveness. I salute his hard work to learn to win face-offs. But there is more to playing center than that.

 

I feel most for Roddy in all this. Watching E from the bench must drive him absolutely crazy.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Yes, Eric's best years were sniping from the perimeter. He had a deadly slap shot. If Eric did get traded he most likely would be placed on a wing position. That is unless Eric incorporates that into waiving his NTC. I'll play in Toronto but it has to be at Center.Toronto will say ok, then place him on wing.

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I've said it before, I'll say it again: Eric Staal never was a center, he still isn't, and until he is willing to park himself in front of the net, get cross-checked, pushed and shoved to battle for position so he can screen the goalie and collect the trash (not to mention GET BACK ON DEFENSE!), he never will be. That's what successful centers do in this league.

 

So, back when I first started watching hockey seriously here, in person, I was surprised by all the "easy goals" Ron Francis got.  I'd say to my seatmates, "What the heck, he is just standing there tipping them in?"

 

Someone learned me real quick about what was really going on.

 

E. is no Ronny.

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The only problem: Peters already tried that and concluded Rask is not ready for first-line responsibility yet. 

 

We weren't suggesting Rask was a first line center, now, or in the future.  IMO, Nash certainly isn't, and never will be. 

 

What I was saying, that in time, I think Rask will be a better offensive center than Riley Nash, and he's already as good or better defensively.

 

And of note, Peters hasn't put Nash against the Pavel Datsyuk's or the Steven Stamkos's.  He's done it with Rask.  There seems to be a level of trust there.  He also has him on the point on the first PP unit, and IMO, he's done a heck of a job.

 

Of course, I'm certainly not downplaying what Riley Nash has accomplished.  He's third line center material on some teams.  But if there comes a time to choose between Riley Nash or Victor Rask as third line center, Nash might keep an eye over his shoulder.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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 I love alot of what Riley Nash brings, but I agree, Rask seems to have more offensive upside, a bit higher on the skill side (of course this is the NHL and Nash is skilled, but it's relative). Rask is more advanced for his number of NHL games played.

 

Nash had a great start and has historically been solid defensively, he is a young guy, might have some trade value.

 

Time to start seeing what different guys might fetch.

 

If I had to pick straight up, I'd take Rask, projecting what he might bring w/ more games under his belt.

Edited by remkin

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Same goes for Skinner.  I'd hate to see him traded, but we need to evaluate a potential return that addresses another need, if nothing else for the sake of evaluation.  If he brought back a similarly-aged, top-2 dman, I would think long and hard about it.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Great point  made about Rask, he is the physical guy, that wins battles, that we have  needed  along boards, since  2009.. Nasher has slipped a bit, but will rebound.. and no way do i trade Skinner, that would come back to bite us, especially if he went to a team in EC..Lindholm plays with so much calmness, the goals will start to go in.. Estaal has  gotten back to back checking, but i dont think hes 100 percent, just a gut feel.. This stubborn Irishman is conceding, we wont be going on a 10 game run, to get into playoffs, but as my wife says , at least the team competes now... So happy for Wardo, but he must be frusfrated... Now the goal, that went off Hainsey, wasnt his fault, he was playing his position as dman.. 

Edited by dinz

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Well, I'd have to say that the NTC's that everyone has moaned and groaned about probably could all be dealt with now.  Just who would want to stay at this disfunctional place if a contending team came calling?  If the losing gets old to us, just think what it must do to the players.  Last night's loss was a back breaker with the way it ended with the GWG at 19:30 of the 3rd on a fluke goal.  The other goal was a fluke also.  The team competed with one of the top teams in the East, and yet found a novel way to lose.  It's institutional at this point.  I expect it (which is why my tongue in cheek GDT ended up being a script and not comedy).  If a player refused a reasonable deal on a trade, I'd have to question his will to compete.  I wouldn't be surprised if Stormy had requested a trade.

 

Time to break a few eggs and make an omelet.

Edited by super_dave_1

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One game at a time. Not because I believe in miracles but because one game at a time is the only thing left to play for. There is no sense looking back at the only ifs or ahead to the what ifs. Time to play for pride, your roster spot and to deny other teams from getting what you can't have.  All that is left is the game your playing.  That's ok as long as you don't lay down.

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One game at a time. Not because I believe in miracles but because one game at a time is the only thing left to play for. There is no sense looking back at the only ifs or ahead to the what ifs. Time to play for pride, your roster spot and to deny other teams from getting what you can't have.  All that is left is the game your playing.  That's ok as long as you don't lay down.

That's what I see the team doing (current and predicted future) and it's why I don't think we'll ultimately be a contender for the top spot in the Draft Sweepstakes.  Unless we switch to "strategic roster management" mode.

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We weren't suggesting Rask was a first line center, now, or in the future.  IMO, Nash certainly isn't, and never will be. 

 

What I was saying, that in time, I think Rask will be a better offensive center than Riley Nash, and he's already as good or better defensively.

 

And of note, Peters hasn't put Nash against the Pavel Datsyuk's or the Steven Stamkos's.  He's done it with Rask.  There seems to be a level of trust there.  He also has him on the point on the first PP unit, and IMO, he's done a heck of a job.

 

Of course, I'm certainly not downplaying what Riley Nash has accomplished.  He's third line center material on some teams.  But if there comes a time to choose between Riley Nash or Victor Rask as third line center, Nash might keep an eye over his shoulder.

Okay. I thought the original strand of this (not from you) was putting Rasker at first-line center.

 

NEVER MIND!!!

 

Litella_zpsb1eaad0a.jpg

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 I love alot of what Riley Nash brings, but I agree, Rask seems to have more offensive upside, a bit higher on the skill side (of course this is the NHL and Nash is skilled, but it's relative). Rask is more advanced for his number of NHL games played.

 

Nash had a great start and has historically been solid defensively, he is a young guy, might have some trade value.

 

Time to start seeing what different guys might fetch.

 

If I had to pick straight up, I'd take Rask, projecting what he might bring w/ more games under his belt.

I think it's a whole lot less complex than that. I believe that in the forward ranks, everyone 25 or younger is safe unless they've just absolutely thrown up on themselves in comparison to what they've been paid THIS season (same for the D, but the age line is 30) - because this season is the new management's and new coach's first point of reference, if they look at it as the clean slate they promised to, in order to assure objective assessments of everyone.

 

Let's assume that's the case. If so, the following would be on the block, based purely on age:

Dwyer

Gerbe

Semin

Eric

Jiri

Liles

Harrison

Hainsey

Gleason

 

So the following would remain:

Boychuk

Lindholm

Malone

McClement - though north not just of 25 but 30, he stays as long as he likes based on his performance so far

Nash

Nestrasil

Rask

Skinner

Jordan

Terry

Bellemore

Faulk

Jordan - gets a pass this year and guaranteed the same opportunity to earn a roster spot next year (leg)

Sekera

 

Let's say this is the path we're on, with the guys in the top group being our bargaining chips, just for the sake of discussion. Whatever might they return (not specific players, necessarily, but what types?) that would complement the guys on the bottom list? Who might be ready in Charlotte next year to round things out, etc.?

 

Thoughts?

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I could be wrong---but haven't other teams tried to re-structure and go with youth only

----------and ended up having to bring in a few older vets to add calmness ,stability, and

leadership to the group ?

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That's what I see the team doing (current and predicted future) and it's why I don't think we'll ultimately be a contender for the top spot in the Draft Sweepstakes.  Unless we switch to "strategic roster management" mode.

 

Roster management mode is always a possibility. Even with the current roster and playing at our best we seem to be doing pretty good in the Draft Sweepstakes.

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I could be wrong---but haven't other teams tried to re-structure and go with youth only

----------and ended up having to bring in a few older vets to add calmness ,stability, and

leadership to the group ?

 I would suggest that Sekera, McClement and (to a lesser extent) Jordan bring that. I think having Roddy on the bench and Ronnie as GM "counts."

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I think it's a whole lot less complex than that. I believe that in the forward ranks, everyone 25 or younger is safe unless they've just absolutely thrown up on themselves in comparison to what they've been paid THIS season (same for the D, but the age line is 30) - because this season is the new management's and new coach's first point of reference, if they look at it as the clean slate they promised to, in order to assure objective assessments of everyone.

 

Let's assume that's the case. If so, the following would be on the block, based purely on age:

Dwyer

Gerbe

Semin

Eric

Jiri

Liles

Harrison

Hainsey

Gleason

 

So the following would remain:

Boychuk

Lindholm

Malone

McClement - though north not just of 25 but 30, he stays as long as he likes based on his performance so far

Nash

Nestrasil

Rask

Skinner

Jordan

Terry

Bellemore

Faulk

Jordan - gets a pass this year and guaranteed the same opportunity to earn a roster spot next year (leg)

Sekera

 

Let's say this is the path we're on, with the guys in the top group being our bargaining chips, just for the sake of discussion. Whatever might they return (not specific players, necessarily, but what types?) that would complement the guys on the bottom list? Who might be ready in Charlotte next year to round things out, etc.?

 

Thoughts?

Ok, I'll bite on a little bit of your post.  Sorry I'm not addressing your main point about the theoretical returns your list might bring, but that's too much thought and above my pay grade. :) And I realize that 10 different people will have 10 different opinions here. 

 

First off, "no" to a stringent age rule.  One of my personal working definitions of bureaucracy is when "Rules" are created and enforced independently of the "Principles" they're meant to support (In the worst cases the rules may actually be counterproductive to what they were created to encourage).  I can see a move towards youth, and age should be one criterion, but only in conjunction with salary, potential, fit, etc.

 

Gerbe: I put him on the "no trade" list.  Not that he's indispensable, but I don't see getting anything better in return.  He's only 27, has a reasonable contract ($1.75m/yr) and is the epitome of the type of culture we want to create.

 

Liles: goes on the no trade list by default.  Given his contract he's basically not tradeable unless we either retain salary or take another bad contract in return.  Given our recent history I don't see us eating salary.  And at least Liles has been playing fairly well recently imo (John Forslund said the same thing last game).  Even before the last goal, I was thinking that I feel a lot more comfortable with Liles out there than Hainsey.  Hey, if we could get someone better in return I'm all for it, but given his contract I just don't see it.

 

Semin: sigh, not much to say there. 

 

Malone: first player I'd put on the block.  I hate to say it, but I think he's going to stay the career AHLer we signed. 

 

McClement: ok, but I don't have him nearly as high as you do.  I don't think he'd bring much in return, though, and presumably adds to the team in his role as "elder statesman".  

 

Sekera: I've said this elsewhere. While I'd really like to keep Sekera, I have doubts we'll be able to retain him without significantly overpaying based on his career season last year (as compared to the rest of his career, including this season).   If we're going to lose him to free agency anyways, he may be our most tradeable asset this season. Let me stress, I'd like to keep Sekera but . . .  

 

More to come later on some other individuals.    

Edited by LakeLivin

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Hockey players and injuries... It is crazy.  Who knows what is or isn't wrong with E. and Semin?

 

You probably heard that The Mumps is going around the NHL.  So Sidney Crosby practices today and talks to the media with a huge swollen face.  Mumps?  What Mumps?  

 

JR (Mr. He-doesn't-have-a-concussion-but-has-a-concussion) is part of this fiasco too.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/sidney-crosby-being-held-out-for-next-two-games-----mumps-suspected-212844895.html

 

Man, I hope the Mumps stays away from the Canes.

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Read this on the Oilers...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2298310-why-a-losing-culture-still-plagues-the-edmonton-oilers

...and see if anything looks familiar.

There are definitely parallels. Scouting. Possilby rushing guys. etc.

 

I think the million dollar question is whether Francis will have more impact on his organization than McTavish has had on the Oilers. It is too soon to be sure, but it does look promising. The other question is one of degree. We have not had hundreds of consecutive #1 and #2 picks, and we have been a touch better than them still.

 

We did make a strong statment in the draft going for a big defenseman and we picked the right coach.

 

But Francis is biding his time on major moves. I have opined that this is wise for two reasons. 1. (The main one) Guys he could move and wanted to would not bring value). 2. E did not want to move and needed to be given "one more chance" due to the NTC. 3. Despite the way it has worked out, I still maintin that if our big 5 were all healthy and playing well we'd be a playoff team: E, J, Semin, Skinner, Ward. The current attendance figures show that was at least worth a try.

 

Reportedly we've beefed up the scouting, we've got the right coach, and we've made a couple of good small moves. Further, we've gotten to see what Rask, Boychuk, Terry, even Nash, and Nestrasil can bring.

 

The time is fast approaching where we will really see what Francis can do. Big moves are coming. Francis has said the right things. It is all about building a long term winning team. We'll see if his moves reflect that.

 

Persoanlly, the quickest way would be to ID at least 3-4 high paid veterans and get draft picks and prospects mostly, with a couple of key veterans. This will allow this year's team to play hard, but still get a top draft pick. Fold in other team's first round picks and we can restock fast. Then overpay for one key FA to get them here (since we'll have cap space), and try a few value FA like Nashville did.

 

Easier said than done. We will see, but I am hopeful that Francis has more impact on his organization than McTavish did.

 

 

Edit: it would just wrong if Edmonton got either McDavid or Eichel. Just wrong.

Edited by remkin

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I'll take Francis over McTavish.  We'll know in a few years.  I guess I'm patient.  Hear that PK?  

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When I read that article, I swear I thought it was about the Canes.  Other than the names, the conditions were spot on.  I am excited about the coaching change and the idea of hopefully bringing the "Detroit way" to Raleigh.  Drafting well beyond the 1st round and developing players is the key to long term, sustainable success.  Quick fixes, rushing players, and hoping are the path to 6 seasons of non-playoffs.

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I think it's a whole lot less complex than that. I believe that in the forward ranks, everyone 25 or younger is safe unless they've just absolutely thrown up on themselves in comparison to what they've been paid THIS season (same for the D, but the age line is 30) - because this season is the new management's and new coach's first point of reference, if they look at it as the clean slate they promised to, in order to assure objective assessments of everyone.

 

Let's assume that's the case. If so, the following would be on the block, based purely on age:

Dwyer

Gerbe

Semin

Eric

Jiri

Liles

Harrison

Hainsey

Gleason

 

So the following would remain:

Boychuk

Lindholm

Malone

McClement - though north not just of 25 but 30, he stays as long as he likes based on his performance so far

Nash

Nestrasil

Rask

Skinner

Jordan

Terry

Bellemore

Faulk

Jordan - gets a pass this year and guaranteed the same opportunity to earn a roster spot next year (leg)

Sekera

 

Let's say this is the path we're on, with the guys in the top group being our bargaining chips, just for the sake of discussion. Whatever might they return (not specific players, necessarily, but what types?) that would complement the guys on the bottom list? Who might be ready in Charlotte next year to round things out, etc.?

 

Thoughts?

I agree with the majority of you list and agree that we continue to go the youth route as a maority. Regardless of age I would also add Malone,Boychuck,Terry to the top list.No team is going to bite on our top contract guys (perhaps E)so we need to look down the line. I've mentioned previously that we need to look at some of our B and C players that if packaged properly might bring a nice B+ or A player.I personally have seen enough of Boychuk,he has been given numerous opportunities and just isn't clicking.Maybe he is a late bloomer in the NHL,but I'll take that chance (sorry Remkin). A package deal with some combination of Gerbe/ Terry/Boychuk/Malone might bring a B+ A player from a team looking to reduce salary. I'd lock up Sekera as soon as possible. Michal Jordan has looked ok the last few games although I think he needs a little more speed. Gleason has had a good year and Liles has looked good the last several games but I would test to see if there is any interest in these two. Worst case we sign Gleason to another year. Bellemore   does bring some grit although he can be mentally absent at times.

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