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The Semin Enigma....

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Here's a somewhat legal question that I've been pondering in this Semin matter. It's actually a 2 part question!!

1st, since our coverage of the Checkers is spotty at best, How well are the Checkers positioned for an AHL playoff run? That is, should Semin be sent down, would his presence bring the same amount of angst and confusion to their team as it does(or should do)to ours?

2nd part, if RF chooses to send Semin to the Checkers(presuming he clears waivers, haha), and he refuses either to report or play there, would he then be in violation of his contract, which could then be terminated on the grounds of non-compliance?

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Here's a somewhat legal question that I've been pondering in this Semin matter. It's actually a 2 part question!!

2nd part, if RF chooses to send Semin to the Checkers(presuming he clears waivers, haha), and he refuses either to report or play there, would he then be in violation of his contract, which could then be terminated on the grounds of non-compliance?

 

Canes went through this with Irbe. He had a NTC and the Cane demoted him and eventually was sent to ECHL Johnstown. It was pretty messy if I remember correctly.

Edited by hopper915

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Canes went through this with Irbe. He had a NTC and the Cane demoted him and eventually was sent to ECHL Johnstown. It was pretty messy if I remember correctly.

 

They way Semin is playing (or not playing), the ECHL might be a better place to send him.  That would make the KHL seem all the more attractive!  At this point, I wonder if he is working (or not working) for a buyout so he can take his NHL money and the KHL money?

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I can't recall a player in any sport that has fallen off in production the way Semin has.  The only one close is Ricky Henderson who was notorious for playing for a contract.  However, Ricky's drop, as I recall, was nowhere near the equivalent of Semin's.

 

I'm sure I've missed some fantastic flops, so if you know of others I'd like a reminder.

 

Staying on topic, I like what Semin can do and really enjoyed watching him as a Cane.  However, he's worse than dog meat IMO and I apologize to any dog(s) I've offended.  Giving up on your team is such a disgrace of character that I can't begin to express my feelings about that.  Honestly, if he worked for me he'd be fired - even if I had to pay him to get lost (which I'd doing everything I could not to).

Edited by Manwolf

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The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a Semin for Richards swap. I would even go as far as retaining some salary to even it up. What to we have to loose? We are getting 0 from Semin so if we get 0 from Richards, we break even. Richards is not worth the money he is being paid in LA, but he is not near as bad as Semin.

I agree. He'd prob be good on our 3rd line. Second even, if new scenery puts a jump in his step. Word on the street is his style lends better to east conf. play. A bit of a gamble tho and a buyout of Semin in June would be cheaper ( I think?)

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Canes went through this with Irbe. He had a NTC and the Cane demoted him and eventually was sent to ECHL Johnstown. It was pretty messy if I remember correctly.

I don't remember it being messy or not but I do recall he was very popular in the locker room and he was paying for team dinners etc. Sounded like he was having a good time lol

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I think the writer of that story is talking present tense not future tense. If the Semin situation is unchanged at the end of the season I would think Francis will be forced to consider all options again. Everything I read seems to indicate a buyout isn't a preferred option because the savings don't seem to justify it.

 

The best thing that could happen is that Semin finds game and starts playing like a $7 million man. After all last year we were all writing off Ward and he has proved he isn't done yet. But comparing Semin to Ward might be a fools game. Semin may not be recovered from the wrist injury, Semin may just need to regain confidence or Semin may be a head case. We just don't know but all dicussion always seems to end with well after all it is Alex Semin what did you expect.

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All this is just talk by RF.  If Semin finishes out the year as a scratch or Checker (or Everblade), he will be bought out.  Yes, it is an expensive option, but not as expensive as keeping him around to play in Charlotte or eat snacks in the presser and infect the locker room.  Consider it your money.  Would you rather write him a check for $7M for the next 3 years ($21M for nothing) or write him a check for $2.3M for the next 6 years ($14M for nothing)?  If it's my money, $7M is nothing to sneeze at. 

 

A good business man should know when they are pouring money down the drain.

Edited by super_dave_1

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Who knows what's obvious with PK though, I can see him being pompous and trying to force it to work.

 

I agree with what's smarter but I don't write the checks.

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I know it's baying at moon, and out of the lockout teams did have two buyouts they could use, and the players probably never agree to it, but with NTC's handed out freely, and gauranteed contracts, it would be nice if each team had one special buyout that it could use every say 3 years for what could be termed disasters. Any player who can be shown to dramatically underplay his contract could be taken to an arbitration where the salary would be adjusted to his productivity, and the term shortened to one the remainder of the season.

 

The team would still have to show that actual play had fallen off by a dramatic amount over a period of time to exercise this, and could only use it once every three years.

 

Semin's contract this year would be adjusted to near the league minumum and he would become a UFA at the end of the year. Or we might even be able to trade him with the new contract.

 

Just musing....

 

The only clean solution is for Semin to come back and want to really go for it (assuming he's healthy enough). Then maybe, just maybe someone would take him for a 6th round pick and we hold a bit of salary back.

 

I just wonder when the press box goes from motivating to so humiliating that he just says, "OK, this is how you treat me? Forget it."

 

I may be completely wrong here, and obviously the coaching staff think I am, but it just seemed he was playing better when he got back and maybe a couple more games to try to build him back up could have worked, But clearly Peters saw it different. Still did not see what he was looking for.

 

At some point this turns into a showdown, and Semin holds some cards. Hope it works, but seems to me we need to get him back in there at some point.

 

That said, I will offer this. While Peters may eventually just lose Semin, he may have gained the rest of the team in the process. Seeing that Peters is pretty black and white on using the Hammer, may be a breath of fresh air to the other 20 guys and could even be part of why we are playing better.

 

I'll even go further. Seeing how Peters handled Semin might be one of those things you only have to do once. After that the reputation does the job.

Edited by remkin

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Who knows what's obvious with PK though, I can see him being pompous and trying to force it to work.

 

I agree with what's smarter but I don't write the checks.

 

That's kind of why I added the "smart businessman" part at the end.  We may not be dealing with that.

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Thanks krouire! Tht is an intresting take.

 

Personally I think the conclusion is a great example of misuing statistics and their limitations. The idea that the goalie' not making saves is Semin's problem shows an utter lack of actually watching him play this year.

 

October was a perferect storm. Not only were we depleted massively up front and trotting out a half AHL group of forwards, but our goalies stunk out loud. Both of them. But starting in November, our goalies started playing well. (Still a huge part of why we are doing better). Well Semin played all of those October games where the goalies stunk. Then started getting scratched when the goalies were playing better. That creates the illusion that the author grasps onto. The illusion that Semin is a victim of bad goalie play.

 

This is an example of: true - true and unrelated. Semin played a lot of games where the goalies stunk. Semin's numbers were bad. BUT...the bad goalie play did not CAUSE Semin's bad play.

 

Now this is obvious to anyone with even one eye. Just watching him this year, his complete lack of engagement in the game was so obvious my 14 year old "occasionally watches part of the game" daughter could see it clear as day.

 

Now I do agree with some of the top part of the article, about overpays vs. toxic, but unless Peters and Semin work out something, his is getting close to the toxic line. As Francis adds, there is still hope, but seems that time is growing thin on that.

 

Anyways his main thesis is an example of lies, darned lies and statistics.

Edited by remkin

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On the Semin article:

 

I'm all for using stats as an analytical tool.  It's hard to fix something if you don't know what's wrong.  

 

Having said that, the Save% issue is just . . . inane. 

 

You've got a forward who has disappeared offensively and you link different statistics to make the argument that it's due to poor goalie play behind him?  Really? :rofl:

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When are one of these hacks going to write a simple article explaining that Semin for whatever reason is simply not doing what the coach is asking him to do?  It's really that simple, IMO.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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When are one of these hacks going to write a simple article explaining that Semin for whatever reason is simply not doing what the coach is asking him to do?  It's really that simple, IMO.

 

But isn't that the key question as to his future prospects with the Canes going forward?  If he's disappeared because of "head-case" issues, that's one thing.  But if it's lingering back problems, that would seem to be a whole different case.  And perhaps provide a glimmer of hope that we might be able to get something out of him (whether it's with us or for some used hockey equipment in return) .

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I agree that the the Save% issue is just . . . inane.  Having said that it did get me thinking that the two players this board keeps pointing out having trouble finding game are the two players that have the best offensive skill set; Skinner and Semin.

 

Now before I hear a collective "WHAT" from the gallery I'm not comparing Skinner and Semin except that they are both offensive minded players. Skinner is still young enough, works hard enough and is going to be around the NHL for quite awhile. Semin on the other hand is the enigma. Nobody seems to be sure what his issue is.

 

But it could be possible that a player with predominant offensive skill doesn't fit this system. Has to sacrifice offense in an attempt to play better defense. Semin could be a player that just doesn't fit and won't alter or can't alter his game to fit.

 

Then again it is Semin, what did we expect?

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Anything is possible, but on Semin, he was asked to be a defense-first third liner in Washington. His productivity did fall off, but not like this. Even then his advanced stats looked good. This year is a whole nother level. Which is why I'm still wondering how much is injury.

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Peters system runs lightning attacks.  Semin's game has always been floating around and making plays from nothing. 

 

Semin needs to be more "rounder" in the square peg. I think that's all the coach is asking for.

 

So, it's be rounder or sit in the pressbox.  It's all up to Alex Sasha Semin.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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If management could pin his lousyness on an injury, they would do it.  No way this is injury.  If it was, why drag him down with the fans and possible trade partners with all the negative comments.

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If management could pin his lousyness on an injury, they would do it.  No way this is injury.  If it was, why drag him down with the fans and possible trade partners with all the negative comments.

 

I dunno . . . I can't recall Canes mgmt being upfront about any injury despite hits to reputation that players were taking (e.g., E's ankle injury during the worst part or the season last Oct).  And the only negative comments I heard were from Peters who would understandably be frustrated whatever the problem is with Semin. 

 

I'm not saying that other stuff might not be involved, just that I don't see ruling out some type of injury being a confounding factor as well.

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When are one of these hacks going to write a simple article explaining that Semin for whatever reason is simply not doing what the coach is asking him to do?  It's really that simple, IMO.

On the nose! I don't believe Semin is injured if that's what anyone is implying. NHL radio to Peters last week: "Is Semin tough to coach?" Peters: "No. I play people that want to work. So, no, it's an easy decision." Coaches don't throw injured players under the bus. Semin is lazy. He had that rep coming to the Canes, he had one good year to earn a contract and everyone (including myself) drank the Kool-Aid. Now, with contract in hand, he's lazy again. I'm disappointed, but not shocked.

 

RF says no buy out, but he has to say that to keep Semin's "value" whatever is left of it. My guess is it happens. The Canes have to hold out and HOPE some playoff team gets plagued enough with injuries before the deadline that they give us a bag of pucks for him and we pick up some of his money. Unlikely, but you never know. After the trade deadline, my guess is they send him down and hope someone picks him up off waivers (can they do that after the deadline? hmmm). Again, not likely. Who wants that salary? It's cheaper in the long run if we buy him out. If he's not doing anything for you, cut the losses and suck it up. Write down the date.....Semin is a buy out. ;) 

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I agree. He'd prob be good on our 3rd line. Second even, if new scenery puts a jump in his step. Word on the street is his style lends better to east conf. play. A bit of a gamble tho and a buyout of Semin in June would be cheaper ( I think?)

We don't need a center.

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