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youngfan9886

The Positive Thread: Any Optimistic Nuggets of Positivity in the Gloom

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We have the worst record in the league, trade rumors have extended to Skinner and any other piece teams want to poach from us, and if attendance continues at its current rate, this team will be in vegas. I'm praying we get Connor McDavid but we will blow our chances at him somehow. Am I being too pessimistic? Is there something I'm missing?

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Its difficult for me to define too pessimistic. Its a tough year. We appear to be among if not the worst team in the league. I would say almost every player is in the trade conversation, we are in the relocation conversation but as long as Florida and Arizona continue to founder its only talk.

 

With the current bunch on the ice I'm optimistic we will be in the top 5 draft picks.

I'm optimistic at some point RF will make moves that could change the culture of the team

 

Yet, right now its hard not to be pessimistic.

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I'm excited to wee what a younger Hurricanes team without the top-heavy payroll, thereby ensuring everyone is incentivized to WIN, can build and eventually achieve.  

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Where did you hear that Skinner is in trade rumors?

That is/would be music to my ears. I'm not a Skinner fan, he's the most sissified player in the NHL and it's not really close. He literally leaps away from any type of contact in both zones. I would want a player in return though so that help isn't 3 or 4 years away.

He may ultimately become a good player but I am highly doubtful. I've seen him actually regress and become even more timid and refusing to engage. I think he will always be one of the/if not the softest players in the league that will be a defensive liability and a turnover machine in the offensive zone. He's also the most selfish player on the team, although recently I have seen some progress in this area.

If we want a culture change, I think Skinner is the kind of guy you move (along with E. Staal). You just can't win with guys who jump away from the boards like they were an electric fence, or that wave their sticks at players as they skate by them.

There is a difference between being a non-physical skill guy and outright avoiding all contact and refusing to engage to make a play. Others will disagree about Skinner, which I completely understand, but I just don't see him changing.

As for optimism, I am looking forward to the 2016/2017 season. That's when we will be out from under the shadow of some bad contracts, and our younger players will have more experience. Anxious to see what Fleury will bring, this team has needed a big-bodied defenseman that can log big minutes for.....well, maybe since the franchise started.

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I'm optimistic Ron Francis is not Jim Rutherford.  We will find out soon enough.

The Bellemore contract says it all.  A holdout gets him a smaller 2way contract, instead of a one way overpayment one.  RF won't play around.

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Depends on what you mean. Hope for this year? No. That ship has sailed. W/ Semin and Jordan absent all year, and E about 50% of his normal self and Skinner having to rebound from yet another concussion? People wonder why the rather small Skinner shies away from conact. How about a concussion just about every year?

 

But after this year? Yes indeed. (So long as the team stays here).

 

We have a clean chance at a rebuild. JR tinkered from 2006 on. You know what? Outside of big contracts and NTC to E and Ward, and too long a term for Semin, I can only complain about many of the moves in retrospect. Still, in the end guys broke down and espcially the big names on the sheet underpeformed. And it just refused to work. It really could have. But it didn't.

 

But now, w/ a new GM and a new Coach (from the best total system organization in the NHL), we have a shot to really build something, from the ground up.

 

This year, if nothing else, Francis and Peters have and will continue to have a good look at who they want to keep, and who they want to move. They have one of the best drafts in history to play with if they can get some picks.

 

We have not yet seen the moves, but they are coming. Nice, patient, deliberate moves.

 

I cannot honestly say that any name is above trading. The closest probably Faulk and Lindholm. But really, anyone else could go.

 

I have a feeling that Francis would like to compile first round picks and somehow come up w/ one really good dman.

 

 

I will say this. If we move E, Ward, Skinner, Semin, etc. And go with draft picks and prospects. We could target the biggest UFA dman and just pay the snot out of him a la Minnesota and Sutter a couple of years ago. I know, I know, that has been the problem, but I'm talking about one key guy.

 

Anyway, there a lot of ways this team can be deconstructed and rebuilt. And Francis has all kinds of time to figure it out.

Edited by remkin

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top_shelf_1, I've given up trying to quote, as every time I've attempted LATELY, it's been an adventure?? Seems I bring the quote in, but my comment then gets buried in it at the end, so it doesn't clearly show the distinction!!

Nevertheless, I wanted to reflect on your "incentivized to WIN" terminology!! What a unique concept, hope that they will!1

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Speaking of incentivized to win. I wonder about the idea of more creative contracts. May be against the collective bargaining, but what about a NTC that becomes null and void if the team drops below a certain winning percentage for a defined period? 

 

Did JR really have to pass out NTC to E and Ward when they were just starting out? Didn't give Skinner one...

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Remkin, does the CBA even allow that kind of thing?  If I were playing union lawyer, I wouldn't allow negative team performance to take away things from my players.

 

Of course, I would be more than happy to allow positive accomplishments (Stanley Cup, winning division, conference, league) to bump my players'contracts.

Edited by wxray1

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Where did you hear that Skinner is in trade rumors?

That is/would be music to my ears. I'm not a Skinner fan, he's the most sissified player in the NHL and it's not really close. He literally leaps away from any type of contact in both zones. I would want a player in return though so that help isn't 3 or 4 years away.

He may ultimately become a good player but I am highly doubtful. I've seen him actually regress and become even more timid and refusing to engage. I think he will always be one of the/if not the softest players in the league that will be a defensive liability and a turnover machine in the offensive zone. He's also the most selfish player on the team, although recently I have seen some progress in this area.

If we want a culture change, I think Skinner is the kind of guy you move (along with E. Staal). You just can't win with guys who jump away from the boards like they were an electric fence, or that wave their sticks at players as they skate by them.

There is a difference between being a non-physical skill guy and outright avoiding all contact and refusing to engage to make a play. Others will disagree about Skinner, which I completely understand, but I just don't see him changing.

As for optimism, I am looking forward to the 2016/2017 season. That's when we will be out from under the shadow of some bad contracts, and our younger players will have more experience. Anxious to see what Fleury will bring, this team has needed a big-bodied defenseman that can log big minutes for.....well, maybe since the franchise started.

Actually Skinner came out looking for blood in the two starts immediately after his last concussion. I hope he takes boxing lessons and does the Rocket thing next time somebody cheap shots him. Then it will end.

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Speaking of incentivized to win. I wonder about the idea of more creative contracts. May be against the collective bargaining, but what about a NTC that becomes null and void if the team drops below a certain winning percentage for a defined period? 

 

Did JR really have to pass out NTC to E and Ward when they were just starting out? Didn't give Skinner one...

I can't imagine the NTC waiver could be stopped if a player agreed to it, CBA or no. If the player asks for an NTC it is reasonable for management to ask for conditions on that clause. It is also unique to each player, so I would think it is outside the realm of "the collective" legally.

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I've never heard of such a clause. Don't know if it's against the CBA, or just not done in practice. 

 

I'm just lamenting the NTC's we've had over the years. Whitney's probably cost us a free draft pick. And I can think of quite a few that have tied the hands of teams trying to move guys. 

 

To me it seems perfectly reasonable to say, look, as long at the team is doing ok, we'll agree to the NTC. But at some point, if the team is bad enough, long enough, we need to have the ability to make moves. 

 

I've heard of limited NTC's, like player gets to name up to 8 teams he won't go to...so maybe it's possible. 

 

I don't know...but giving NTC's to E and J empowered them to hold the entire team ransom if they want to. If E. is reasonable he might say, "I don't really want to leave, but I can see I've been given several chances, and maybe it's time to move on". But he can also say, "you've never really given me comparable line mates, I finally got to play with my brother, who is now hurt. I like this town. I'm not the problem. Trade someone else." 

 

I wasn't on here when it happened, but I'm just trying to imagine if JR, while paying E. and Ward huge bucks, really needed to toss in the NTC's. 

 

Another thing is, say w/ J. NTC for the first 2 years to allow a fair shot at things working...

 

Some kind of limit on them.

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JR was JR and JR did JR things.

 

We are now all crazy over it.

 

It is costing us sleep.  People are already calling our team the Las Vegas Black Knights because of JR, his crazy NTCs and contracts.  I'm done with JR.  I just hope he somehow sinks the Pens long term.  He's already pulling the old "what sickness, what injury, I don't see anything" with Crosby.  The XM guys are calling Crosby "Quagmire" (see "Family Guy") after his infamous Mumps interview.  JR and management were like: "Mumps, what mumps?"

 

I need to calm down.  I'm tired of the ghost of JR constantly haunting us.  These <edited> NTCs are just adding to the ghosting.

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I've never heard of such a clause. Don't know if it's against the CBA, or just not done in practice. 

 

I'm just lamenting the NTC's we've had over the years. Whitney's probably cost us a free draft pick. And I can think of quite a few that have tied the hands of teams trying to move guys. 

 

To me it seems perfectly reasonable to say, look, as long at the team is doing ok, we'll agree to the NTC. But at some point, if the team is bad enough, long enough, we need to have the ability to make moves. 

 

I've heard of limited NTC's, like player gets to name up to 8 teams he won't go to...so maybe it's possible. 

 

I don't know...but giving NTC's to E and J empowered them to hold the entire team ransom if they want to. If E. is reasonable he might say, "I don't really want to leave, but I can see I've been given several chances, and maybe it's time to move on". But he can also say, "you've never really given me comparable line mates, I finally got to play with my brother, who is now hurt. I like this town. I'm not the problem. Trade someone else." 

 

I wasn't on here when it happened, but I'm just trying to imagine if JR, while paying E. and Ward huge bucks, really needed to toss in the NTC's. 

 

Another thing is, say w/ J. NTC for the first 2 years to allow a fair shot at things working...

 

Some kind of limit on them.

The other thing we don't know is whether they asked for them or we offered. My HOPE would be they are only discussed when the player requests them.

 

The fact that Skinner didn't (or wasn't offered one, whichever applies) suggests to me that he doesn't care where he plays. On the other hand, without knowing the CBA, it *could* be that players on a bridge contract (the one they sign between their long-term deal and their entry contract) are not permitted to negotiate NTCs.

 

But in the end, I don't see the sense in them, period - for either party - and wish they'd be outlawed.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Why wouldn't a 30+ year vet not want a NMC or NTC?  Sure seems it would make sense for a player to have some control over where they played.

 

It's up to the GM to say no.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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with a good percentage of the team having high-dollar long terms contacts and not carrying their own weight, I see little hope for optimism.  and the Checkers and Everblades such

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I'm excited to wee what a younger Hurricanes team without the top-heavy payroll, thereby ensuring everyone is incentivized to WIN, can build and eventually achieve.  

 

I'm not really excited to see an AHL team against an NHL team. Yes, young players are cheap and might be more hungry but they are also not very good. One of our best young players, Riley Nash has 1 assist in his last 10 games. Boychuck scoreless in 12 games. Lindholm 1 assist in last 7 games. Rask 1 goal in last six. Terry scoreless in 11 games. Our lineup is littered with young players who are "incentivized to win." That hasn't worked out so far for us. And you can't just get rid of all the high-priced veterans. There is a salary cap floor in the NHL. We would go under the 51M floor if we traded Eric and Semin alone.

Where did you hear that Skinner is in trade rumors?

That is/would be music to my ears. I'm not a Skinner fan, he's the most sissified player in the NHL and it's not really close. He literally leaps away from any type of contact in both zones. I would want a player in return though so that help isn't 3 or 4 years away.

He may ultimately become a good player but I am highly doubtful. I've seen him actually regress and become even more timid and refusing to engage. I think he will always be one of the/if not the softest players in the league that will be a defensive liability and a turnover machine in the offensive zone. He's also the most selfish player on the team, although recently I have seen some progress in this area.

If we want a culture change, I think Skinner is the kind of guy you move (along with E. Staal). You just can't win with guys who jump away from the boards like they were an electric fence, or that wave their sticks at players as they skate by them.

There is a difference between being a non-physical skill guy and outright avoiding all contact and refusing to engage to make a play. Others will disagree about Skinner, which I completely understand, but I just don't see him changing.

As for optimism, I am looking forward to the 2016/2017 season. That's when we will be out from under the shadow of some bad contracts, and our younger players will have more experience. Anxious to see what Fleury will bring, this team has needed a big-bodied defenseman that can log big minutes for.....well, maybe since the franchise started.

I think a News and Observer article mentioned how the canes needed to blow it up. Most sites I've seen put Skinner on the block because he's talented, teams would give picks up to get him, and he's risky for us to keep because of his concussions. I'm a little hesitant to trade talent when we already have a lack of it.

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