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youngfan9886

The Positive Thread: Any Optimistic Nuggets of Positivity in the Gloom

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. And you can't just get rid of all the high-priced veterans. There is a salary cap floor in the NHL. We would go under the 51M floor if we traded Eric and Semin alone.

So?  We'd be able to sign a few other decent names during the UFA season...or get a few decent names (and contracts) in return for a trade and stay above the floor.

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The Skinner rumor started with some comments by E.J. Hradek on NHL live last week.  EJ said the coaching staff wasn't pleased with Skinner's play without the puck.

 

It took off from there.

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The fact that Skinner didn't (or wasn't offered one, whichever applies) suggests to me that he doesn't care where he plays. On the other hand, without knowing the CBA, it *could* be that players on a bridge contract (the one they sign between their long-term deal and their entry contract) are not permitted to negotiate NTCs.

 

On the NTC or NMC discussion, keep in mind only Group 3 unrestricted free agents are eligible under the current CBA.  So, a player has to be 27 years old or has to have accrued 7 seasons in the league to request a NMC or NTC in their contract.

 

Skinner isn't eligible.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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So?  We'd be able to sign a few other decent names during the UFA season...or get a few decent names (and contracts) in return for a trade and stay above the floor.

Carolina isn't exactly a great destination for top free agents. Most of the talent we've had has been either through the draft or trades. So I wouldn't count on us being able to replace our high-priced veterans so easily. Just look at Florida. They have had to overpay their free agency players just to hit the salary cap floor. Is that really a better scenario? Our last big free agent signing was Semin and we had to overpay as well. Also any trade that would put the Canes below the salary cap floor would be disallowed by the league. I just don't see what trading Eric or Cam does for us. Most likely a trade involving those two would just bring a different high salary guy to the team. Remember when we traded Tim Gleason? We got Liles back. That didn't exactly benefit us at all.....

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On the NTC or NMC discussion, keep in mind only Group 3 unrestricted free agents are eligible under the current CBA.  So, a player has to be 27 years old or has to have accrued 7 seasons in the league to request a NMC or NTC in their contract.

 

Skinner isn't eligible.

His NTC kicks in during 2017-2018. Which relates to the point you just mentioned of 7 accrued seasons.

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I also read and opinion piece somewhere a few weeks ago stating that the Canes should trade Skinner and there was some discussing of it then too.

 

At the start of the season I had a scout from Winnipeg sitting behind me, and he started talking to another fan. One thing I heard him say was that despite his scoring Skinner was soooo weak on the boards and in his own end that it affected his value.

 

UFA's can be a problem. I do wonder though, if we get close to the floor due to picking up first round picks and dumping salary, if we get the guys in the system that we want, we can afford to overpay a couple of UFA's to get them here. As a rule you need production per dollar but you can have key outliers as long as they're contributing something.

 

There are examples of teams overpaying a couple of guys but those guys being just what the team needed and it working out. At the moment, the Islanders come to mind.

Edited by remkin

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I'd just remind everyone that Sidney Crosby had to overcome concussion issues too, and that one reason he did was that criminal Brooks Orpik. In other words: It is nice to think elite players shouldn't need protection. The fact, however, is that they do.

 

Also, to Kyrule: You are dead wrong about Skinner's defense this year and his numbers prove it, specifically his plus-minus. Until Montreal, he had been at -3 for weeks, and that was after being as high as -7. So he's maintained a low plus-minus despite playing big minutes on a team that can't score and has given up nine goals in its last two games. The switch seemed to flip for him when Peters put him on the third line and was telling anybody in the media who would listen that, "Skinny needs to be better on D."

 

At 22, he's a chance we can't afford not to take, IMO; a rookie of the year who had the same target on his back that every rookie of the year does after receiving that accolade - unless you're Tyler Myers (6'-7"). And while there should have been a suspension resulting from his pre-season concussion (based on a strict reading of the elbowing rule), the fact that he got hit "on the button" as Forslund said - square on the chin - is the "best" way to get KO'ed. Consciousness is lost because the energy travels up both jawbones and signals the brain to shut down the nervous system.

 

Contrast that to the glancing hits to the side of the head he's suffered in the past, and it's clear to see he's made progress in protecting himself while maintaining his offensive potency (33 goals last season). 

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Just a quick question.  Does anyone think Bill Peters is on borrowed time?  Clearly the team is underperforming, and while it would be unusual for a first year coach to be let go so soon, I see nothing here that inspires confidence that he can turn things around.

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Just a quick question.  Does anyone think Bill Peters is on borrowed time?  Clearly the team is underperforming, and while it would be unusual for a first year coach to be let go so soon, I see nothing here that inspires confidence that he can turn things around.

 

No.

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I don't think BP is going anywhere. He is here with Ronnie to build a team that will not be done overnight. Gonna take another few years of pain before we are playoff contenders. The UFA/RFA  market in the off season of 2015 IMO is fairly weak especially from the forward perspective. There are a few DMEN that would be a great addition but the competition for those players will be extremely high. I have already braced myself for limited activity from Ronnie this off season based on available talent and the extremely high interest from all teams. As much as we all want to see numerous trades  and acquisitions of UFA's/RFA's ,I do not think it is realistic based on what we have to offer and based on the competition of all teams for the required services. I see Ronnie making 1-2 trades with no real blockbuster moves.  Let's hope we get the 1st or 2nd pick in the draft as that may be our only major signing. Has Eichel already committed to the NHL? I'd hate to see the kid signed and then commit to more time at Boston University(another Jack Johnson).

Edited by slapshot02

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I'd just remind everyone that Sidney Crosby had to overcome concussion issues too, and that one reason he did was that criminal Brooks Orpik. In other words: It is nice to think elite players shouldn't need protection. The fact, however, is that they do.

Also, to Kyrule: You are dead wrong about Skinner's defense this year and his numbers prove it, specifically his plus-minus. Until Montreal, he had been at -3 for weeks, and that was after being as high as -7. So he's maintained a low plus-minus despite playing big minutes on a team that can't score and has given up nine goals in its last two games. The switch seemed to flip for him when Peters put him on the third line and was telling anybody in the media who would listen that, "Skinny needs to be better on D."

At 22, he's a chance we can't afford not to take, IMO; a rookie of the year who had the same target on his back that every rookie of the year does after receiving that accolade - unless you're Tyler Myers (6'-7"). And while there should have been a suspension resulting from his pre-season concussion (based on a strict reading of the elbowing rule), the fact that he got hit "on the button" as Forslund said - square on the chin - is the "best" way to get KO'ed. Consciousness is lost because the energy travels up both jawbones and signals the brain to shut down the nervous system.

Contrast that to the glancing hits to the side of the head he's suffered in the past, and it's clear to see he's made progress in protecting himself while maintaining his offensive potency (33 goals last season).

I'm not just talking about this year, and I'll trust my eyeballs as far as Skinner being a defensive liability.

Look around at other posts here. Listen to what our announcers say about Skinner and his refusal to engage and play defense. Apparently our coaches are not happy with his play without the puck. Not once have I heard anyone even suggest that Skinner is more than a one dimensional player. As far as I know, you are the lone standard bearer in terms of Skinner being a responsible defensive player.

Also, he's the softest player on the team without question (would anyone here deny that claim?). I think he is the softest player in the NHL. I will even go as far as to say he is the softest player I have ever seen in 30+ years of watching hockey. I watch more hockey than is healthy and I can't even compare him to another player due to his "I'll get out of your way and waive my stick at you" style.

You keep mentioning 33 goals but that was last year. He was also -14 with only 21 assists. His 54 points was the highest of his career outside of his rookie year and that was with 275 shots. He probably will not reach 50 points this year. To this point he is -44 in 285 games. He's a selfish player/line-mate, and I would find it frustrating as hell to play with him. He makes no effort to get the puck, then when he gets it he tries to be a one man show. He should have the most goals with the amount of puck-hogging and the amount of shots he takes.

I'm not denying he has talent, I'm doubting every other aspect of his game. A one dimensional player that is making good money (5.75 million ?) and who is not scoring consistently is a liability. Period. His Charmin soft and selfish play are also poor examples for our players that are younger than he is, or who have less experience at the NHL level.

You want a culture change? Weeding out the selfish players who show no effort along the boards and who refuse to play defense/engage would be a good start in my opinion.

But again, this all depends on whether or not you think Skinner will change. I don't.

.

Edited by Kyrule

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I'm not just talking about this year, and I'll trust my eyeballs as far as Skinner being a defensive liability.

Look around at other posts here. Listen to what our announcers say about Skinner and his refusal to engage and play defense. Apparently our coaches are not happy with his play without the puck. Not once have I heard anyone even suggest that Skinner is more than a one dimensional player. As far as I know, you are the lone standard bearer in terms of Skinner being a responsible defensive player.

Also, he's the softest player on the team without question (would anyone here deny that claim?). I think he is the softest player in the NHL. I will even go as far as to say he is the softest player I have ever seen in 30+ years of watching hockey. I watch more hockey than is healthy and I can't even compare him to another player due to his "I'll get out of your way and waive my stick at you" style.

You keep mentioning 33 goals but that was last year. He was also -14 with only 21 assists. His 54 points was the highest of his career outside of his rookie year and that was with 275 shots. He probably will not reach 50 points this year. To this point he is -44 in 285 games. He's a selfish player/line-mate, and I would find it frustrating as hell to play with him. He makes no effort to get the puck, then when he gets it he tries to be a one man show. He should have the most goals with the amount of puck-hogging and the amount of shots he takes.

I'm not denying he has talent, I'm doubting every other aspect of his game. A one dimensional player that is making good money (5.75 million ?) and who is not scoring consistently is a liability. Period. His Charmin soft and selfish play are also poor examples for our players that are younger than he is, or who have less experience at the NHL level.

You want a culture change? Weeding out the selfish players who show no effort along the boards and who refuse to play defense/engage would be a good start in my opinion.

But again, this all depends on whether or not you think Skinner will change. I don't.

.

You're entitled to your opinion. Me too, and I still think you're wrong on the D assessment, and I think it's because you aren't, in fact, using your eyes. I think you've got outsized preconceived notions based on forgetting that this kid won the Calder at 18. 

 

Not to engage in a pissing match about watching hockey, but me too - and add 17 years to your total. Been playing all those years, too.

 

His assist totals set the BS meter to redlining on your claim he is selfish. I don't know what he did to piss you off, Ky, but you're letting it cloud your judgement. Do I wish he had Terry's sandpaper? Absolutely. But some players are smart enough to know they are more valuable on the ice than in the box. Skinner's never gonna be an enforcer. But that's not what we're paying him to be. 

 

Again, my opinion. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Who's asking him to be an enforcer? I just want him to play like a professional that is trying to win by doing more than just score.

As far as not using my eyes, I guess nobody else is either and you are the only one gifted enough to see Skinner's defensive prowess. Me, the coaches, the media, other members here....we all have it wrong.

Sorry.

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Who's asking him to be an enforcer? I just want him to play like a professional that is trying to win by doing more than just score.

As far as not using my eyes, I guess nobody else is either and you are the only one gifted enough to see Skinner's defensive prowess. Me, the coaches, the media, other members here....we all have it wrong.

Sorry.

You keep trying to include "others" in your criticism, but fail to provide any citations. He's on the PP unit, he (along with Gerbe) are our only consistent forecheckers, and (yet again) his assists tell a different story than the one you're trying to peddle.

 

But, whatever.

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You keep trying to include "others" in your criticism, but fail to provide any citations. He's on the PP unit, he (along with Gerbe) are our only consistent forecheckers, and (yet again) his assists tell a different story than the one you're trying to peddle.

But, whatever.

I guess you missed recent posts by Coastal and Remkin basically expressing concern about Skinner's defense.

I guess you missed other's here expressing concern about Skinner's defense in the past.

I guess you haven't consistently heard John and (especially) Tripp pointing out that Skinner needs to engage more, be better defensively, and at least try to use his body to make a play rather than his stick (particularly in his own zone).

I guess you missed Muller and Peters talking about trying to make Skinner a more complete player.

If you think I'm going to waste my time searching, cutting, pasting, etc . to show you what is already blatantly obvious then you're nuts.

How about you show me one example of someone saying that Skinner plays good defense?

Who has the blinders on? Who's trying to peddle something?

Btw, I like how you focus on the assist thing (which btw are not that great). I was just posting overall numbers and it is by far the least important of the points I am making. Amongst everything I said you focus on that....twice. I guess if you can't even attempt to defend anything else....

Also, in your above post, please tell me how Skinner being on the PP is relevant to this argument in any way.

Like you said,

whatever.

.

Edited by Kyrule

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Skinner has become more a liability than an asset and other NHL know this to be true.  Given the fact, and hid history of concussions, his trade value is not that great

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I guess you missed recent posts by Coastal and Remkin basically expressing concern about Skinner's defense.

I guess you missed other's here expressing concern about Skinner's defense in the past.

I guess you haven't consistently heard John and (especially) Tripp pointing out that Skinner needs to engage more, be better defensively, and at least try to use his body to make a play rather than his stick (particularly in his own zone).

I guess you missed Muller and Peters talking about trying to make Skinner a more complete player.

If you think I'm going to waste my time searching, cutting, pasting, etc . to show you what is already blatantly obvious then you're nuts.

How about you show me one example of someone saying that Skinner plays good defense?

Who has the blinders on? Who's trying to peddle something?

Btw, I like how you focus on the assist thing (which btw are not that great). I was just posting overall numbers and it is by far the least important of the points I am making. Amongst everything I said you focus on that....twice. I guess if you can't even attempt to defend anything else....

Also, in your above post, please tell me how Skinner being on the PP is relevant to this argument in any way.

Like you said,

whatever.

.

You started by saying you don't care what others say, you trust your own eyes - but apparently not so much.

 

I myself have said Skinner needs to improve defensively - and lately (under Peters) he has. Is he where he should be? No. But neither is any other forward on this team. The Canes' big issue since Roddy retired has been a culture among its forward corps on not getting back to help out. Skinner is no more or less guilty of that than any other forward, and (again) his forecheck is among the most aggressive on the team.

 

You can trot out what people have said about Skinner in the past all you like (and you are). I'm looking at his value and development NOW, which (in case you haven't noticed) is what we're living in (the present). He is 22 years old and right where you'd expect him to be for a guy with his early success, the targeting that inevitably follows that in the NHL, the resultant injury issues, and playing on a team that has been a perennial loser for the last 10 years, save one. Peters told him to step up on D and during this season he has done so, as his +/- shows. Compare it to others with his ice time and you'll see that he is on the ice for far fewer of the opposition's goals than them, and certainly than he was last year. Tell me, please, all-knowing Kyrule, how that is not positive?

 

He is a sniper who is supposed to shoot the puck, yet because he does people (like you) say he's "one dimensional," as a slam. You know what? Allen Iverson was one-dimensional too. And all he did was lead his team to the NBA Finals. There is nothing wrong with scoring goals, especially on a team that doesn't. Which makes his assists all the more pertinent in terms of what he brings (and yes, I'll point them out again, because you saying they are not that great doesn't make it true). He makes plays by drawing coverage, often really outside-the-box plays, and at his stage of development (again, you need to take that into account, no matter how much you don't want to) that points to more of the same, the longer he plays. 

 

You gave Eric Staal 10 years of opportunities. Please explain why Skinner, who is making 2/3 of what Staal is, shouldn't get comparable time to develop?

 

I guess YOU missed how everybody you cited above has also spoken of Skinner's tremendous potential upside, his game-changing ability. Funny how you leave all that out. If he isn't the force they, I, and clearly management thinks he can become by the time his NTC kicks in, I'll be the first to say he should go. But not giving him the time and the opportunity to become that player - especially as a young leader on team that is rebuilding - is penny wise and pound foolish. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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First of all I didn't give Eric Staal 10 years of opportunities, I don't even know where the hell that is coming from.

I have been critical of Staal for years, and I just recently agreed with you about Staal. Are you on drugs? And don't try to put words in my mouth and make assumptions when I have clearly stated the opposite.

Funny, I remember saying that I don't doubt Skinner's talent, it's every other part of his game that worries me. I've said that he has potential, but that is is incredibly soft and a defensive liability. I don't think he'll change.

I do trust my eyeballs but you asked me to cite others concerning my complaints with Skinner, so I did so. Again, are you high or impaired in some way? But wait, now that's a problem also because I didn't include "but he has potential" at the end of each one? You can keep trying the "hey look over there" while avoiding the real issue if you want but I'm not falling for it, nor will most here.

I'm still waiting for you to show me ANYONE else that thinks Skinner isn't a defensive liability and /or soft.

Oh that's right, we all have it wrong, even poor Collie in the post above.

If you're happy with one-dimensional players then good for you. I'm not. I don't think management should be either but that is another matter.

I'm going to step away from this ridiculous argument because I have wasted too much of my, and the board's (I apologize) time on this. There's no point. You try to put words in my mouth and ignore my numerous comments about Skinner's potential, it's just that I don't think he will change/improve. You ask me to cite others and I do but then that's a problem. You have not one other source/person that agrees or supports your claim. You talk in circles and make comments that frankly, I have no idea where they are coming from or are irrelevant. It's pointless.

I'll leave this debate with a quote from you from an above post:

"Do I wish he (Skinner) had Terry's sandpaper? Absolutely."

If you think Terry plays with "sandpaper" no wonder you are happy with Skinner.

Terry.

Sandpaper.

That is so hilarious I think I will make this quote my signature.

Happy Holidays, thanks for the gift.

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First of all I didn't give Eric Staal 10 years of opportunities, I don't even know where the hell that is coming from.

I have been critical of Staal for years, and I just recently agreed with you about Staal. Are you on drugs? And don't try to put words in my mouth and make assumptions when I have clearly stated the opposite.

Funny, I remember saying that I don't doubt Skinner's talent, it's every other part of his game that worries me. I've said that he has potential, but that is is incredibly soft and a defensive liability. I don't think he'll change.

I do trust my eyeballs but you asked me to cite others concerning my complaints with Skinner, so I did so. Again, are you high or impaired in some way? But wait, now that's a problem also because I didn't include "but he has potential" at the end of each one? You can keep trying the "hey look over there" while avoiding the real issue if you want but I'm not falling for it, nor will most here.

I'm still waiting for you to show me ANYONE else that thinks Skinner isn't a defensive liability and /or soft.

Oh that's right, we all have it wrong, even poor Collie in the post above.

If you're happy with one-dimensional players then good for you. I'm not. I don't think management should be either but that is another matter.

I'm going to step away from this ridiculous argument because I have wasted too much of my, and the board's (I apologize) time on this. There's no point. You try to put words in my mouth and ignore my numerous comments about Skinner's potential, it's just that I don't think he will change/improve. You ask me to cite others and I do but then that's a problem. You have not one other source/person that agrees or supports your claim. You talk in circles and make comments that frankly, I have no idea where they are coming from or are irrelevant. It's pointless.

I'll leave this debate with a quote from you from an above post:

"Do I wish he (Skinner) had Terry's sandpaper? Absolutely."

If you think Terry plays with "sandpaper" no wonder you are happy with Skinner.

Terry.

Sandpaper.

That is so hilarious I think I will make this quote my signature.

Happy Holidays, thanks for the gift.

Wow Kyrule. I'm speechless in the face of such total childishness. collie is right, and I'd never say otherwise. I'd also never claim he was supporting either of our positions re Skinner with that post. Other NHL teams ARE nervous about the potential impact of another concussion. So's everybody else. It has hindered his trade value. He's gonna have to show he's learned from it and string together a couple of injury-free seasons if that value is to increase. No dispute here. 

 

As for your "years" of Staal criticism, it hasn't been here, my friend. For months, perhaps - seeing as you have been a member here since last February. But any way you slice it, that is not "years." Not even two of 'em. Or - I'm sorry - is THAT number, like Skinner's assists, also meaningless to you? Numbers seem to be, particularly when they refute your version of the truth.

 

Anyways, happy holidays to you too, my fellow Canes fan.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I can be critical of someone outside of these boards, they're called friends, family, etc..

This board isn't the official ledger of my thoughts on players.

Still wondering where the "you gave Staal 10 years" comment even came from?

To review,

I gave Staal 10 years of support (of course this assumption was pulled out of thin air and I've been critical of Staal pretty much since I've been here) but I haven't been on the boards long enough to criticize him for more than a year or so.

Man you are out there.

.

Edited by Kyrule

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You also can't stay away even you've sworn off a thread.

 

The foremost characteristic of a troll.

 

Sorry it didn't work out for you with this cowpoke, pardner.

 

Happy trails.

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Anyone with half of a brain can see where this went.

Care to answer where the Staal comment came from?

Btw, it worked out fine. I have a new signature and your posts make you look like you are severely impaired or just flat out bizarre.

Nice try by calling me a troll. You pull concepts out of the air and attribute them to me. You ask for citations and then call me out for them. You make completely irrelevant statements. You say I have supported someone for 10 years, but I haven't been here long enough to criticize the same person...

Like my wife just said, you can't fix stupid.

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Guys I think the points have been made and things have deteriorated to personal attacks.

 

If you want to keep it rolling please take it to PM's.

 

Hey, I did some moderating! :yippee: .

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