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youngfan9886

The Positive Thread: Any Optimistic Nuggets of Positivity in the Gloom

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Guys I think the points have been made and things have deteriorated to personal attacks.

 

If you want to keep it rolling please take it to PM's.

 

Hey, I did some moderating! :yippee: .

 

 

:groupwave:

 

:on_topic:

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And I thought personal attacks were banned on this site. And while we are at it , why rush J back?  Will we be really happy finishing 27th?

Edited by winger52

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Guys I think the points have been made and things have deteriorated to personal attacks.

 

If you want to keep it rolling please take it to PM's.

 

Hey, I did some moderating! :yippee: .

No thanks Rem, I learned long ago not to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

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Bill Peters- NO EXCUSE-interviews when we don't show up to play he calls it like he sees it- and he sees it dead on most nights.if you watch this is starting to carry over to the players- no more "we didn't get the bounces" or "we played hard it just didn't go our way". Culture change takes a while hoping the Caniacs will hang with it...

THE WINDS OF CHANGE ARE FINALLY BLOWING...

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Well here's to hoping for a Cat.level 5 wind that doesnt staal out, until all these bad under performing over paid contracts are but a memory....

The word IF should be banished from this forum..

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just wondering:   what is the Whale/Canes worst record ever and is the franchise's current version on track for having that dubious distinction?  

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Well, for what it's worth, I am back on board the ESRM bus. The Rangers games highlighted that no matter the IFS, it just isn't going to be. I put my best effort to date on the News and Update thread, but there simply is no chance for this year. And its gotten to the point where the ifs, while theoretically valid, are not of practical importance any more.

The point is simple. Sure it is still theoretically possible that this group of our highest paid forwards could get it together, but it is essentially impossible to make the playoffs this year. Thus there are two relevant questions:

1. Even if (sorry Pamlico, but I'm really on your side here because this is a double negative "if") even if this core of elitely paid forwards came together and played well, this year is done. Would you (or Francis) really go into year 4 of trying this same group if we (inevitably) miss the playoffs again?

2. If (sorry again, but this is really a different kind of "if") we agree that the answer to #1. is "no" and if (sorry) we agree that we are more than a minor miracle away from the playoffs this year, then what is the point of letting the core at it again for very long just to win enought games to push us down the draft board in this, the juiciest of drafts?

Answer: there is only one reason (looking to the future) to keep playing this group of highest paid forwards: trade value and waiting for the best return on investment.

Frankly so long as we mostly keep losing, ironically there is less pressure, in a twisted logic kind of way, to make a deal soon since we remain within sniffing distance of last place.

Anyway, my biggest sense of optimism is that Francis also realizes that he simply cannot roll into next year with the same names atop the forwards pay list. But also realizes that he is in a oddly enviable position. We can afford to be almost universally focused on the long term. He is new and safe as a GM, as is his coach. Winning now, is arguably a bad thing.

The only thing that I worry about some is the NTCs. I know there are ways to pressure players, but there are also examples of players really tying the GM's hands and not allowing any deal or not allowing the best deal to be made.

It will be very interesting to see Francis' first big move. That will be the first notion of how optimistic to be.

For what it's worth, it is hard to see at least one Staal not moving. Maybe Eric and Marc can end up in the same place? I thought I heard Marc didn't necessarily want that, but times change...

Edited by remkin

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why would Marc Staal want to join a sinking ship?  the Canes do not need any additional high-priced talent

 

You aren't going to turn the ship into the wind with low priced talent. I will be the last one to advocate we go get another Staal but at the same time your going to need pay if you want to play. 

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You aren't going to turn the ship into the wind with low priced talent. I will be the last one to advocate we go get another Staal but at the same time your going to need pay if you want to play. 

 

 

somewhat disagree.   a few years ago the team had a bunch of injuries and a a bunch of angry River Rats were brought in in response.  the team started to win

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Not sure if I started this, but what I meant was that Eric and Marc both end up in the same place that is not here. Say Toronto.

 

One exception. In all seriousness, I agree w/ Collie, I doubt Marc wants to come here, but the one exception would be a thing that will never happen: 

 

We bring all Staals together, but all waive the NTC's, and E and J restructure their deals to bring in M, and free up some cap space for another forward.

 

This would keep them from blocking the break up if things flamed out, and give Francis the deal making leverage if it doesn't work out, and if we move Semin somehow, and get a top pick, we could add offense that way.

 

Since that will never happen....it goes in the "if" pile.

 

 

Edited by remkin

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On Skinner and his defense, take these stats as you will:

 

Last year, 75.4% of his zone starts were in the offensive zone.

This year, 66.5%.

 

Considering that Alex Ovechkin has made 59.6% and 57.4% in the offensive zone in that same time frame, and he was -35 last year. The point is, even Alex Ovechkin is trusted with more defensive zone responsibilities. Skinner starting just 24.6% of shifts in the defensive zone last year is an incredible stat. 

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Thrash,

 

First cool avitar.

 

Another way to look at the Skinner defense might suggest it's actually better.

 

As you point out he is starting more in the d zone than last year, and despite that he is mid pack on plus minus vs last year (basically last if you discount Ruutu) and despite putting in less points himself. Don't get me wrong, he's still very sheltered, (though some of that is wanting his offense out there in the ozone too).

 

Just looking for some improvment. Skinner will likely never be a great two way player.

Edited by remkin

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Thrash,

 

First cool avitar.

 

Another way to look at the Skinner defense might suggest it's actually better.

 

As you point out he is starting more in the d zone than last year, and despite that he is mid pack on plus minus vs last year (basically last if you discount Ruutu) and despite putting in less points himself. Don't get me wrong, he's still very sheltered, (though some of that is wanting his offense out there in the ozone too).

 

Just looking for some improvment. Skinner will likely never be a great two way player.

 

Someone on here made that Avatar a long time ago, right after the Thrashers moved and I converted to the Canes. So whoever did that..thank you!

 

I agree with your point on Skinner. He will never be a two-way forward. The problem with that is, if you're going to pay someone $5.5 million to be a one-way forward, they better do a lot of scoring. As much as--using Ovechkin again--Ovie's +/- is criticized, it's much easier to swallow when he is scoring 50 goals a year. Skinner, at this point, is about a 50 point guy. The other reality is that he is 22. Ask the Bruins what happens when you give up on a 22 year old with perceived shortcomings too quickly.

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I am really not in the give up on Skinner camp. I think he is a very special, unique talent. All those years of watching the Dalpes and Bowmans and Boychuks, even Lindholm develop and Skinner comes in out of high school and just lights it up. That guy is definitly capable putting up 40 goals, maybe more. But I think that to this point the concussions have significantly deterred his further developement even on the offensive end. The concussions are the thing.

 

The only other thing is that Skinner would benefit from playing with at least one other guy that is a serious offensive threat. I think Lindholm will get there, but isn't quite there yet.

Edited by remkin

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We have the worst record in the league, trade rumors have extended to Skinner and any other piece teams want to poach from us, and if attendance continues at its current rate, this team will be in vegas. I'm praying we get Connor McDavid but we will blow our chances at him somehow. Am I being too pessimistic? Is there something I'm missing?

 

 

OK, to try to get back on topic I am quoting youngfan's original post.

 

Kind of an ironically pessimistic post asking for optimism.

 

 

I do think it might be reasonable in this dark time to make this just a pure optimism thread since most of the others will be negative.

 

Positives/Optimism Only thread. Might be short for a while, but there's always good to be found.

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given the Canes' track record since 2009, there is little hope for optimism.

 

given the Canes track record this season there is little hope for optimism

 

given the track record of the Canes' farm teams there is little hope for optimism

 

given the Canes/Whale past drafting record there is little hope for optimism

 

given the good players the Canes have let get away, there is little hope for optimism

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OK, Collie...got it.

 

This is why I'm suggesting we use this thread for what positives can be found. The entire rest of the board will be 95% negative for a while. Since there really isn't any chance for playoffs this year, it can't be about that on this one.

 

Please note that finding a few positives doesn't mean we think it's all great.

 

Anyway....

 

So I'll take a crack at a few:

 

1. Our coach. We seem to have landed the real deal. I know it's hard to say that with all the losing. But the coach cannot put the puck in the net. It is a general observation. Heck Kirk lost less. But Peters has a long line of success both as a head coach at lower levels and most importantly with the best organization and under one of the best coaches, in the NHL. He not only has the resume and pedigree, but the man seems smart, prepared, and no nonsense while not a bully. Our games are close, and when it comes together you can see the system playing out. Get him the right players and I'm optimistic (see what I did there?) that we will win.

 

2. Goalies. Cam is playing extremely well. At this point you have to be from Raleigh and have your name start with a G, not to see that. But Khudobin is getting into form also. It has to be so hard to find your game when you play every 10 days. Cam's great play gives us the kind of options I'm sure Francis was hoping E and Semin and Tlusty would offer in terms of stay or get a nice return. The more Cam plays like this, and if Khudobin can show last year was for real. Francis has some options.

 

3. Victor Rask. So we have given a whole lot of guys some serious ice time. Boychuk, Terry, Rask, etc. While Terry has shown a valuable tendency to put the puck in the net, the overall emergence of V. Rask, is the most pleasant surprise to me. Last year's training camp he seemed overmatched and slow. Last year's Checkers season was very slow to develop for him. But apparently while we were looking at the draft boards he was coming on late last year in Charlotte. He kept working over the summer and showed up on time and just killed in preseason.

 

Game day speed in the NHL again seemed to be a challenge for a while, but the guy just keeps upping his game. To the eye he has the skills. In fairness to JR and the negativity surrounding his departure, Rask would make JR's second round draft picking look pretty decent recently.  Rask may seem like an odd choice since he only has about a 22 point pace going, but this is more the eye test and considering that this guy only has 33 NHL games under his belt, ALL this year.

 

Rask is not a superstar type player. He's just not quite that fast or quick handed or a sniper. He put up nice, but not flashy numbers in Sweden and juniors. (Though he has throughout his entire career and at every level put up very nice playoff numbers. I like playoff numbers because points are harder to come by and the stage is bigger. He is basically a ppg in 5 playoff appearances in Sweden and in Juniors: 33 points across 34 playoff games.) But he is a two way player with enough skill to be in the top 9 for sure, and quite possibly the top 6, while almost certainly not the top line.

 

I expect solid improvement over this year, but I really expect a jump when he comes back around next year. Nash is a very nice player who plays the right way. But might be a trade candidate in favor of Rask. Of course Nash would be strong on the 4th line too. So Francis has some options.

 

There are other positives, but don't want to hog all the great stuff going on with this team!! :grin:

Edited by remkin

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I'm optimistic we have a plan. Francis is too good of a hockey man not to have a vision of the type of team he wants. How long it will take to achieve I have no idea. What moves he will make to accomplish it I have no idea. I am optimistic he will accomplish it.

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