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Official Trade Deadline, Re-signing, Trade Talk "Maybe it's really a fire sale" thread

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Habs just got forward Devante Smith-Pelly from the Ducks. Jiri Sekac went the other way.

 

 

So they trade a right wing for a left wing.

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This is why I like Boomer Gordon. He has said on numerous occasions, since the Semin signing, that what JR did here is inexcusable. He is the only pundit (IMO) worth listening to, although Rossi is also okay. Mick Kern is a complete idiot. Scotty Laughlin is an adolescent stuck in a forty (fifty?) something body (seriously, Scotty, give the metal a rest - you're not 15 anymore) and don't even get me started on his buddy Bill "Nosebleed" Watters. 

 

Wow.  Excellent assessment of XM hosts.  I agree with 100% of what you say.

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...compared to the crack squad we have assembled this year that is battling for the third worst team in the NHL. Rebuilding brings growing pains, and I'm fine with that. I'd rather watch a group of new young players and watch them grow/develop than see the same core group that has consistently failed.

Your wife even keeps up with news on the Checkers!?

She's a keeper.

 

Yes she does and yes she is.

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Well, those of us wanting Rosey back up in Raleigh might get our wish...due to a pending possible fire sale.

 

He's just a phone call away for 30 NHL teams.  I'm sure his phone will be ringing off the hook.

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I'll just copy this from the game day thread:

As for Bellemore, he is +2 in 31 games this year. Our only plus player.

I believe he is -1 now in 113 career games on two bad teams.

It might be ugly at times but I still feel that most of the time he gets the job done. You don't end up at just -1 in 113 games on bad teams by being lucky, especially when the other guys playing the same position as you are around the -12 to -14 (or more) mark over the same period of time. Gleason is one minus away from being -40 over the past two seasons, and there are still 20+ games to be played.

Bellemore is obviously a #6 or #7 type guy (and is paid like one). At least he fills his role while others fail at theirs, and they make more money than he does.

I'd be okay with keeping him around in the 6 or 7 role, but he's no more than that, at least not yet. Prime time for Dmen is typically 25-30 and at 26 he *might* still rise to a 5-6, maybe even a 4-5 under BP's tutelage. My guess is the Rags want him (if they actually do) for his sandpaper.

 

I'm right there with you on Timmy. I only included him in my listing b/c I have a feeling RF keeps him around if he'll agree to another year at a million (hopefully less). 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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My point about the Oilers is that you do need to keep some veterans around to keep the young players pointed in the right direction.  The reason (in my opinion) that the Oilers have sucked for so long is their lack of leadership on the ice.  With the talent they have drafted, they should be better by now.

I agree, and that's why I included Jordan, Hainsey and (hopefully) Gerbs. I'm also confident that one, maybe two of those 8 holes I created would be filled by journeymen along the lines of a McClement or Liles, some of whom are always available and looking for another year or two during the summer.   

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I will still be shocked if we make any moves of any significance.  As for Bellemore, I would much rather have him at his salary than Sekera at what he will fetch.  Just hoping for a good return on the guy, if he goes anywhere at all.

 

I have seen us all get pumped up like this too many times before, when we knew something big was going to happen.....some would have bet their first born.  NOTHING.  We like our pieces and our core.  We will draft a few and do some minor stuff in the offseason, but we are stuck with some crazy contracts on guys nobody else wants to take on and that's where we are going to be until it works itself out.  Thanks JR!!!

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Wow.  Excellent assessment of XM hosts.  I agree with 100% of what you say.

Great minds think alike - and apparently OURS do, too :)

 

The other thing I like about Booms is he is often off-the-hook hilarious. My favorite (among many):

 

"He got you three ways. He got you with the hook, he got you with the line, and he got you with the sinker."

 

My exact assessment of how E. Staal and A. Semin got JR.

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I have a feeling that any major deal announcements don't come until tomorrow at least, if there are any coming. This is Cam's night and anything else steals the show. 

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We are all, including me, grasping at specifics. We have not choice. Plus what is needed is at least a large cut in the high paid core, and yet while that clearly that means moving part or all of Staal squared (or Skinner), on the poll about "who do you trade?" the combined Staals got two votes (of 35) with the condition set that they would waive their NTC's, which, by the way they have not said they would not do. So we don't want to move either Staal but we want a tear down.

 

The core that is being paid to put up points is: E,J, Semin, and Skinner. Those 4 make $28.25 million/year. All of the rest of the forwards combined make $10.275 milllion. E/J/Semin/Skinner: average $7.125 million/year each.  All other forwards combined average: $1.275 million/year each.

 

The only other guy in the big time money is Ward. So add his name to that list, though it could be argued he is close to producing to his salary.

 

There is a direct correlation between getting scoring from the guys paid to score or the points/$. The top guys will always get more per point because you have to pay for elite talent, but you need your elite talent to play....elitely.

 

Moving our UFA's is necessary, but has almost no impact on the problem. So the problem with this team is Sekera, Tlusty, McClemment, Dwyer, etc.? Losing them fixes....what exactly? OK we can find a few picks or prospects. Yes that can help, but really just to replace the losses. If we get a first for Sekera and or Tlusty, that would help. But the major problem  area is still sitting on the payroll.

 

What I'm saying is that this team cannot be remade with E, J, Skinner, Semin, and Ward all on the team. Clearly Semin is a disaster. If you remove Tlusty, Semin makes almost as much as the rest of the lower tier fowards combined to produce Jack on a good day and Squat on a bad day. But E. makes $9.25 million and next year gets a small raise. Skinner....a bit of an enigma himself. He is so young and capable of producing, but has not progressed much defensivey and playmakingly, and their's the concussions. Jordan, funny how much love he's getting now even though he is on a projected 11 goal pace over 82 games. But I get it and at least his $6 million is capped all the way out.

 

I think this is where we get hung up trying to solve this mess. To me, if you want to remake this team, you must move E and Semin at least OR Skinner and Semin. Both have huge potential impediments, but somehow that seems to be needed. Skinner? If the right deal came along, but you better get a player back because if you move E, you will lose points.

 

If you belive that Staal squared can get it done, then I think Skinner and Semin have to go. E. has only next year on the contract at least. And Skinner does not have a NTC.....yet.

 

 

Bottom line: it is necessary to make deals for UFA's that don't stay. But it doesn't change anything for the better and does not come even close to fixing the root problem. I get that deals can be made off-season, but deals made now are SRM. Plus, after years and years and years of this, I just personally don't want to wait until the summer to see a big deal.

 

I hope Francis is able to pull off a deal to move: Skinner, Semin (ha!), Ward, or Eric, and ideally at least two of them, this week. Anything less will be necessary but not a clear vision into what Francis has in mind.

 

I completley understand the skeptism that he won't do it. He's said it's not likely, big deals are hard, he HAS to do something with the UFA's which is distracting from big deals, and there are lots of complications for most of the potential big deals (NTC's, Jack Squat production, etc), and historically we've not seen those from JR.

 

But I still HOPE to see one.

Edited by remkin

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Pierre LeBrun of ESPN: There is no plan for the Hurricanes to trade either Jordan or Eric Staal at the moment. A source said that GM Ron Francis called Jordan on Sunday to let him know that a potential trade with Pittsburgh was unfounded. Francis may not want to trade Eric, but in the offseason, nobody knows how owner Peter Karmanos will react to the teams finances.

 

 

So that would strongly suggest neither Staal is going anywhere during the season (of course "at the moment" leaves some room, and there is always an offer that could materialize). Ward or Skinner would have to be just the right deal. Still possible, but admittedly not likely. Semin....ha.

 

In a later quote Francis did hold out hope for a last minute deal w/ his "free agents"......but is posturing that they will be traded.

Edited by remkin

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The "bad contracts" will begin to take care of themselves next season. I hesitate to say they are bad contracts but admit on a budget team they put most our money in a few select players hands. It made building a team or changing a team a challenge.  Eric and Cam will both be in the last year of the contract. That will put the team in the drivers seat. It will be up to us if we resign them or let them go.

 

You could make the case that J (length of contract) and Skinner both have contracts that so far haven't met expectations. I'm not sure that is true but even if it is both contracts are movable. The NTC will make it more difficult but if we were to part ways I'm sure other teams would want both.

 

Faulk is still a bargain. We will see if expectations are met as his contract grows.

 

Semin.. ok its the definition of a bad contract. The Albatross around our neck. A buyout won't save much money so the preferred hope  I would guess is he either finds game or goes home.

 

My point is we won't have JR to kick around much longer. By the end of next season this will be RFs team.  We probable won't find out how Francis intends to structure this team by trade deadline but by draft time and off season I expect we will. The contracts won't be as big of an issue.

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The "bad contracts" will begin to take care of themselves next season. I hesitate to say they are bad contracts but admit on a budget team they put most our money in a few select players hands. It made building a team or changing a team a challenge.  Eric and Cam will both be in the last year of the contract. That will put the team in the drivers seat. It will be up to us if we resign them or let them go.

 

You could make the case that J (length of contract) and Skinner both have contracts that so far haven't met expectations. I'm not sure that is true but even if it is both contracts are movable. The NTC will make it more difficult but if we were to part ways I'm sure other teams would want both.

 

Faulk is still a bargain. We will see if expectations are met as his contract grows.

 

Semin.. ok its the definition of a bad contract. The Albatross around our neck. A buyout won't save much money so the preferred hope  I would guess is he either finds game or goes home.

 

My point is we won't have JR to kick around much longer. By the end of next season this will be RFs team.  We probable won't find out how Francis intends to structure this team by trade deadline but by draft time and off season I expect we will. The contracts won't be as big of an issue.

I largely agree with this. I still don't think anything happens with any long-term contracted player before summer. We've been braced to lose Tlusty, Sekera, probably McClement - anybody have the full list of UFAs handy? Those losses alone will "feel" pretty darned big, trust me. What is going to be fun to watch for the rest of the year will be the in-season, NHL tryouts of whatever comes back, I betcha, because Peters plans to find out right quick who can take pressure and who can't. I have a feeling that BP's timetable for the Canes becoming a winning team again is a whole lot shorter than most of ours.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Habs just got forward Devante Smith-Pelly from the Ducks. Jiri Sekac went the other way.

 

 

So they trade a right wing for a left wing.

 

The Habs have been criticized for being too small and "not built for the playoffs."

 

Smith-Pelly runs around the ice and hits people hard......a lot. Plus he can actually play.

 

This is clearly a skill-guy for a physical/playoff type player trade IMO. I think it is a good move for both teams at this time.  

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I agree that it is unlikely that any big names not about to be UFA's move before the deadline. But that means that the core problem remains. Fine. But if the idea is to roll this team out there next year again, but minus Sekera.....I'm surprised if many are ok with this.

 

I guess this just means there will be more pressure on Francis to move a name before the draft. Might be hard to do though.

 

There will be a lot of pressure to find a seriously capable D man to replace Sekera. Still not sure how we pull that one off.

 

I will say that Skinner is one guy who we could use a bit more time to see if he'll get his mojo back. If he does, and gets through the season healthy, he should be more tradable if we go that way.

 

Just lamenting that more cannot be done now. Maybe we'll get surprised.

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... if the idea is to roll this team out there next year again, but minus Sekera.....I'm surprised if many are ok with this.

 

What gives you this idea?  Nobody (I don't think) is happy with the status quo.  Some of us have just realized that Sekera isn't coming back, so we might as well get over it.  I get that you have been vocal about wanting to keep Sekera and overpaying, no matter what the cost.  What contract would you offer Sekera?

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I guess this just means there will be more pressure on Francis to move a name before the draft. Might be hard to do though.

 

I'm not sure thats true. I think we will be making moves but we can't be sure yet how Francis sees this team moving forward.  It's possible he is still planning to build around the Staals. Its just as possible he isn't. I'm not sure he has made a goal tending decision yet. Until he starts making moves we just don't know, or at least I don't.

 

On Sekera, it isn't I don't see the hole he will leave or that if possible we should keep him. But RF has been clear from the start that if he can't re-sign the FA he wants to keep he will dump them. Sekera will be difficult to replace but remember he was reportedly asking for 5 million. I think we can find a replacement for less and hopefully pocket a pick and prospect. I hope so anyway.

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What gives you this idea?  Nobody (I don't think) is happy with the status quo.  Some of us have just realized that Sekera isn't coming back, so we might as well get over it.  I get that you have been vocal about wanting to keep Sekera and overpaying, no matter what the cost.  What contract would you offer Sekera?

 

Just to be clear, it's not all about Sekera. Yes, I'd like to keep him. But my point is that getting something for Sekera is a "better than nothing" move. The reason I said, "returning the same team minus Sekera", is mainly to say, returning the same team. I went to type that returning essentially the same team would, I think leave most people unhappy, but as I typed "returning the same team", I realized, if all we do is make these UFA moves, we will not be left with the same team. We will be left with a worse team. Maybe more potential, but worse.

 

Assuming Sekera, Tlusty, and McClemment bring picks and prospects, they will not likely be much of a part of next year's team.

 

I'm all for buidling for the future and the picks, especially any first rounders, will be exciting and help us build, eventually.

 

I am just saying that personally, I'd like to see a bigger move. Yes, if we can't land the UFA's, even Sekera, we have to get something for them. But none of them are even a small part of the problem, so if those are the moves, we must wait on any more core moves. Fine, but just saying I'd rather not wait.

Edited by remkin

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Rem, I originally read your statement as "I'm surprised many are ok". You had "surprised if" which changes it somewhat. Sorry if I missed that. I still think this is much bigger than just moving Sekera. The UFAs have to be moved now, or lose them for nothing. He has no pressure to work on deals on the other guys unless somebody calls and blows his socks off. Those deals normally happen over the summer.

I could see a top team have a goalie go down before 3/2 and make a call about Ward (salary retention required). I can see a deal involving Skinner happening before the deadline, but most likely that would be done over the summer.

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SD, Yeah, I do agree that it is likely that any other moves get made over the summer. Just would like to see one now, is, I guess is what I'm saying.

 

I want to see what Francis actually has in mind as far as moving out a couple of big salaries and if he is good with both Staals or not, and the idea of waiting for  :beach:  to see a real move, especially in this interminally long season is just :bored: .

Edited by remkin

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After.much thought it saddens me to say that I was wrong. While inconsistent Skinner is the only goal scorer on this team. He is once again producing on a regular basis. I think we should keep him but wouldn't feel bad I'd we acquired a younger Erik Cole player or top 2 d man for him....

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Alot wont agree with me, but  cam is back almost to his ole self.... I would not trade... Would be a HUGE mistake.. I have said it all along..

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Habs just got forward Devante Smith-Pelly from the Ducks. Jiri Sekac went the other way.

 

 

So they trade a right wing for a left wing.

 

This was a hockey move. Each team was filling needs with positional players they had a glutton of. Personally, I would have liked to have gotten Smith-Pelly. He has really good skill and is a big power forward that could sit in front of the net and scrap for those dirty goals.

 

One team I might look at trading Sekera to is the Blackhawks. Their blue-line is pretty beat up right now. Same with the Ducks.

 

As unpopular as this maybe, I'd almost look into keeping Cam and re-sign him to a 3 year extension.

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