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Official Trade Deadline, Re-signing, Trade Talk "Maybe it's really a fire sale" thread

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Part of the problem with "rushing" guys is the agreement with the Canadian Junior teams. Yes, a guy like Skinner might have been able to benefit from a year in the AHL, though he was an All Star and Caulder winner, and there are plenty of massive hits in the AHL too, but that isn't the choice.

 

Due to the agreement, Canadian players under 20 either need to play Junior Hockey or NHL until they are 20, the choice is tough for elite prospects. Either full on play NHL or go back to dominating younger teenagers. NO AHL option until 20.

 

If you have a Skinner, you don't want him playing 2 more years of Junior hockey, then another year in the AHL. That isn't developing either. That progression is fine for the McGinns and such, but elite talent? No.

 

I think each team should have an exemption. One guy they can send to the AHL at say at least 19, or even 18. Maybe you have to be a top 15 pick to qualify. I know the Junior hockey world wants these guys, but they'll be fine without a handful of guys.

Edited by remkin

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I think each team should have an exemption. One guy they can send to the AHL at say at least 19, or even 18. Maybe you have to be a top 15 pick to qualify. I know the Junior hockey world wants these guys, but they'll be fine without a handful of guys.

 

That will go over great with the Player's association!

 

Right.  Deny a 19 year old prodigy a chance to make $800,000?  I don't think so.

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That will go over great with the Player's association!

 

Right.  Deny a 19 year old prodigy a chance to make $800,000?  I don't think so.

Not denying anybody anything. What it would do is allow those guys to play in the AHL (and earning a check) vs. being sent back to their junior team. Teams could still bring those guys that are ready up to the NHL. I know that it will not change, but I would like to see 1st rounders exempt from the age requirement.

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That will go over great with the Player's association!

 

Right.  Deny a 19 year old prodigy a chance to make $800,000?  I don't think so.

 

Regardless what the PA, owners, fans, or anybody else wants, sometimes a league has to just do the right thing, and ensuring that every player gets at least a year 's worth of games AHL speed before going to the show is the right thing to do.

 

Not denying anybody anything. What it would do is allow those guys to play in the AHL (and earning a check) vs. being sent back to their junior team. Teams could still bring those guys that are ready up to the NHL. I know that it will not change, but I would like to see 1st rounders exempt from the age requirement.

 

Help me understand - you mean under-20 first rounders should not have to choose between the NHL and Juniors, right? I agree and would go even further - any U20 taken in the entry draft can go pro, but they see no time on an NHL roster until they have dressed for a number of AHL games equal to the current number of games comprising a full AHL season. Age is not a factor; game speed (and size of the other guys playing) is what matters.

 

The obstacle, of course, is that this would make it official: The AHL is a higher level of play than Canadian juniors, and owners of Junior teams are loathe to admit that. Too freakin' bad, though, it's true, and the sooner the league wakes up and puts barriers in the way of exposing man-children to guys twice their size, the fewer cabbage-brained ex-pros there'll be when their playing days are over.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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My understanding is that the issue hinges on Canadian Junior Hockey. They want to keep their star players around as long as possible. The NHL, ultimately very Canadian-centric agrees to this. European players can go to the AHL if they didn't play Junior hockey in Canada.

 

Most N American players choose between College and Junior hockey. I'm not sure (please correct if I'm wrong) but a college player can pretty much give up his college eligibility whenever they want.

 

The AHL is definitely a higher level than Juniors, mainly because it is filled with men not teenage boys. Sure, there may be more super-skilled hot shots in Juniors, but in general there is a lower level of skill and physicality and even speed.

 

The nice thing about the AHL is that a kid can get used to a bigger, more physical brand of hockey but at a half step slower than the NHL. The other thing is that in the AHL a top 6 guy can get top 6 minutes and work on that at a bigger more physical closer to NHL level.

 

Guys who have already put up sick points against teenagers aren't going to progress much just doing that again for two more years.

 

Again, I'm talking about elite prospects. Guys like McGinn or lower round picks, are fine taking a bit longer to develop, going back to Juniors. It would just be nice to let your elite prospects get some AHL time in before trying to break into the NHL, without wasting two years in juniors.

Edited by remkin

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My understanding is that the issue hinges on Canadian Junior Hockey. They want to keep their star players around as long as possible. The NHL, ultimately very Canadian-centric agrees to this. European players can go to the AHL if they didn't play Junior hockey in Canada.

 

Most N American players choose between College and Junior hockey. I'm not sure (please correct if I'm wrong) but a college player can pretty much give up his college eligibility whenever they want.

 

The AHL is definitely a higher level than Juniors, mainly because it is filled with men not teenage boys. Sure, there may be more super-skilled hot shots in Juniors, but in general there is a lower level of skill and physicality and even speed.

 

The nice thing about the AHL is that a kid can get used to a bigger, more physical brand of hockey but at a half step slower than the NHL. The other thing is that in the AHL a top 6 guy can get top 6 minutes and work on that at a bigger more physical closer to NHL level.

 

Guys who have already put up sick points against teenagers aren't going to progress much just doing that again for two more years.

 

Again, I'm talking about elite prospects. Guys like McGinn or lower round picks, are fine taking a bit longer to develop, going back to Juniors. It would just be nice to let your elite prospects get some AHL time in before trying to break into the NHL, without wasting two years in juniors.

See my prior post, sounds like we're in agreement. I think the AHL should be a gate through which every player must pass, for at least a year's worth of games, before seeing NHL ice time, and I think issues with the Canadian Junior system can be resolved if player safety is the prime motivator. Could be a win-win-win for Juniors, the AHL and NHL. Guys coming from pro systems overseas, where safety has been a focus and taken more seriously for much longer, would be exempt. 

 

Edit: Maybe not Russia, and if their last name is Semin, they must play AHL for TWO years!  :lol:

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Hockey seems to be unique in this area. Baseball also has a minor league system vs. College, but there isn't some third way.

 

I am no expert on Canadian Junior Hockey to say the least, but for the upper echelon players it just seems suboptimal. to their developement, especially that second (19 year old) year.

 

So you're an up and coming star in high school baseball. You can either go play with 18-23 year olds in major college baseball, or go play with 18-30 year olds in minor leauge baseball. But in hockey, you go back to playing with 17-19 year olds or college, but no minors. If you are an elite prospect, you have already dominated Junior hockey. You need to step up your game. Especially in year 2.

 

I get that it is economics. Canadians are nuts about their hockey, including Junior hockey, which has nice attendance numbers not far off from the AHL. Futher, for a lot of guys a couple of years in Juniors is fine. Most athletes aren't ready for prime time by 18 anyways. But the elite prospects are not helped by going back to Juniors for 2 years. I completely get one year. It's that second year that gets me.

 

Take Hayden Fleury. OK, the kid can use one more year of Juniors. In his case he barely made the age cut anyways. But this year, he either has to make the big club or go back to playing with teenagers. He would clearly benefit from time in the AHL next year. Bigger, faster players, but a half step slower than the NHL. But no, he either has to make the Canes or go back to his Juniors.

 

As to making time in the AHL mandatory, that would make it across the board at least. I do think at least some time in the AHL is a good idea. Just like minor league baseball. Ride the bus some, work on your game vs men, but with less pressure. I could get behind a manadatory one year with call ups allowed after the trade deadline maybe.

 

But mainly I just want the AHL to be an option at least let teams tag one guy for it. Or at least at worst allow it after one year of Juniors rather than two.

Edited by remkin

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Canadian Junior Hockey obviously wants to keep it's best players around as long as possible.  But I'm sure the rationale they couch their politics in is physical development.  Young baseball players aren't likely to get squished by older competition.  The NFL requires a player be 3 years out of high school before he can be drafted.  I've heard that even the NBA is debating tightening up it's age requirements.

 

As far as the AHL, I'm in agreement with a 1 or 2 player exception, maybe even tied to draft position.  To me, teams wouldn't seem as likely to jeopardize the health of young high draft picks by rushing them through if they weren't physically ready.              

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The saftey argument has some merrit in general. But 19 year old football players don't go back and play 2 more years of high school football until their 20 either. Further, if the NHL team can decide that an 18 year old is ready for the NHL, they surely should be able to decide if a player is ready for the AHL.

 

Again, the vast majority of drafted players would go to Juniors or College, it is just the elite ones I'm taking about. And especially that second year.

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The saftey argument has some merrit in general. But 19 year old football players don't go back and play 2 more years of high school football until their 20 either. Further, if the NHL team can decide that an 18 year old is ready for the NHL, they surely should be able to decide if a player is ready for the AHL.

 

Again, the vast majority of drafted players would go to Juniors or College, it is just the elite ones I'm taking about. And especially that second year.

 

Oh, I'm in agreement.  That's why I specified the "politics" of the Canadian Juniors. 

 

Does the NHL have any actual $ investment in juniors or is it basically a free developmental league for them?  

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