Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
Whaler1

2015 NHL Entry Draft

Recommended Posts

Rantanen is the prospect I've got my eye on, and have for quite a while, which usually means that there's no way we take him, rem. I guess I just have an affinity for Finns, but also, I think he'd do well in Peter's system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kjun, as you know I'm a Marner guy, but I do like Rantanen more than Crouse. He's playing against men, and when he did play in the world juniors he was very good. Just the little I've seen he looks smooth and skilled for a big man. I do like him. I think if we want him or Crouse we should trade down if possible.

 

I still don't see passing on Strome/Hanifin/Marner of which one will be there.

 

Then again a lot of media types and mock drafters really seem locked in on the size issue for us. All I ask is this, if we go that way, trade down. Well that's not all I ask, but all I ask IF we go that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally did my homework on top 10.  

The smart thing to do for the future is to take Hanifin if he's avialable still.  Faulk, Fleury, Hanifin one day could lead to great things.  Its always tempting to take the high scorers though especially when we don't have any left on our team.

 

  I liked Crouse over Marner.  No more little guys that need a couple years to put some size on and are concussion prone when big guys take runs at them.   Crouse is big and I like his agressive play.  We have nobody on our team like that and it could set a new standard for toughness and work ethic.  Oh and he will score goals. 

 

I really liked Pavel Zacha, he's a big center that scores about a point per game in every league he's been in.  He's ranked 8 so chances are he is there.

Overall it seems like anyone in the top 8 could be an NHL star, great pot of draft picks this year, we will do good with whoever we pick. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every year I post this since we're alsway thinking about moving up or down the draft. It is the relative cost of moving up or down by draft position based on historical norms.

 

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2013/4/25/4262594/nhl-draft-pick-value-trading-up

 

Anyway, I keep thinking if we want size, there are a bunch of good options, and if we were picking around #9 or #10 those guys would drop to us. Well dropping from 5 to 10 should yield the #30 pick. So a late late first rounder or a very high second rounder. Now in this draft that would be of interest for sure. But it would be hard to work out. If we trade w/ the team at #10, their second rounder would be the #40 pick, not quite enough.

 

More interesting to me is trading up. If Hanifin goes #3, would Toronto swap, and we take Strome. I think they like Marner. The price to move from 5 to 4 is 5 points, which equates to a very late round second rounder. Maybe our very early third rounder and our fourth rounder (we have two)?

 

Just kicking it around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More interesting to me is trading up. If Hanifin goes #3, would Toronto swap, and we take Strome. I think they like Marner. The price to move from 5 to 4 is 5 points, which equates to a very late round second rounder. Maybe our very early third rounder and our fourth rounder (we have two)?

 

Just kicking it around.

 

I hate trading up one slot.  Not for any other reason than it presumes that the trading partner knows who you want and is also willing to take them.  To me, you are almost better off gambling that they don't take your guy.  Look how close we were to getting Seth Jones.  What if you were in the 4 slot and traded up to number 1 to get Jones, and you didn't even have to after all.

 

I do think though that the price isn't too bad if we did want to move 1 slot though.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thought I'd weigh in on this subject of "trading up", and please don't misunderstand this, as it's just fft(food for thought). To me, if we'd trade up, ostensibly to pick Strome, but who knows, but the tradeoff seems to be, what is more pressing? Get someone who seems to be a need for the big club, vs giving up 2 potential players for restocking our AHL club(if that is the deal).

 

Since soooo much has been focused on being woefully short when it comes time for a call up, I just don't see RF making that deal. Does anyone?

 

One additional thought, doesn't this sort of deal get us right back into the discussion of short vs long range planning?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see us trading up for the very reason KJUN stated. Our cupboard is bare. If anything I could see us trading down to add assets. Of course the exception would be if we could get the number one or perhaps number two pick and that won't happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be fired as a GM. I say the hell with the rankings and go with what fits our team the most. The kid I like is Timo Meier. He's already 210 lbs. He hits anything that moves, charges the net, great passer and scores. He also plays defense. Currently ranks 10th. He also wears 28 so that will be available after we buy out Alex.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brbdgbUdZPo&feature=player_embedded 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless 1) Strome is still available at #5 (seems unlikely) OR 2) Marner has impressed mgmt to the point that size isn't a consideration (and he's still available), I'd like to see us trade down. 

 

I'd trade out of drafting Hanifin at #5 for a couple of reasons.  1) The greater uncertainty that comes with drafting d-men at such a young age as compared to forwards. 2) Based on the scouting reports I've read, I'm not so sure Hanifin will turn out to be that much better than Provarov or Werenski. At one time there seemed to be a general consensus that McDavid, Eichel, and Hanifin were all somewhat close (of course McDavid was always the prize). But the 2 forwards pulled away. So was that due more to McEichel pulling ahead, or Hanifin dropping back closer to the other top d-men? I have a gut feeling that it may be closer to the second and that "inertia" is what keeps Hanifin locked in as a clear choice as the best d-man in many prognosticator's minds.  Hanifin and Werenski's careers over the last few years run parallel, even down to a lot of the same national teams.  If you look at their stats you'd have a hard time telling one from the other if they weren't labeled (yeah, I know stats don't tell a complete story, but the similarity is almost eerie).

 

So if we want to go D, trade down and take Werenski or Provarov.  If size is an issue, pass on Marner, trade down and take a Rantinen/ Zacha/ Crouse/ Meier (take your pick).  Plus add some much needed depth with the asset we get from dropping down.

 

 

 

I say all that with the realization that I'm speculating with no in depth knowledge to back it up. I trust RFs decision will be much better informed. ^_^

Edited by LakeLivin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see a lot of people suggesting to trade down but what exactly do we get out of trading down I'm not sure the return is worth it? It's not like we will get a big name player from doing it right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see a lot of people suggesting to trade down but what exactly do we get out of trading down I'm not sure the return is worth it? It's not like we will get a big name player from doing it right?

 

When I mention trading down, I'm talking like to 8, 9 or 10. This year's draft appears deep enough that I"m expecting players in that range to have about as good a chance at success as pick #5 (see my speculation about Hanifin, and Marner size considerations above).  In addition, I'd want a high 2nd round pick or equivalent.  No, not going to be a big name player, but either an established player who'd be reliable on D or maybe a 2nd/ 3rd line forward.  Or a prospect in this deep draft. Sure, the odds of hitting it big really go down once you get out of the 1st round; which is why I see it as being important to have as many of those chances as possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me trading down would be only if we have decided we simply must pick a guy over 6 feet tall. I pick Marner. Guys like that are only had at the very top of the draft: see Patrick Kane. To me there is no doubt. Take him.

 

BUT if we were to trade down and go as Lake and I have said to say 10, then you still get a big guy, and the return should be a very low first rounder or very high second rounder. The problem is making that actually happen. You have to have a team there that wants say Marner or Hanifin bad, but their second rounder would be #40 unless someone onwns someone else's. BUT if we could pick #31 say, that guy has a nice chance of being a very good player in this draft. We got Rask and Faulk second round.

 

I think that's part of why more teams don't trade up or down, hard to make the pieces fit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Philly has #7 pick and another 1st round pick, I guess the exact number of which will be determined by playoff outcomes. I'm not sure they would part with a low 1st round pick to move up 2 spots, but if we are sure we can get the player we want at 7 and Philly is in love with one of the top 5 guys, might they give up their #7 pick in 2nd round? Would that be a fair return to drop 2 spots?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Philly has #7 pick and another 1st round pick, I guess the exact number of which will be determined by playoff outcomes. I'm not sure they would part with a low 1st round pick to move up 2 spots, but if we are sure we can get the player we want at 7 and Philly is in love with one of the top 5 guys, might they give up their #7 pick in 2nd round? Would that be a fair return to drop 2 spots?

 

It could work, but it would have to probably be a swap of our second rounder for their late first rounder on the back end. It would only work if their second first round pick dropped to around #25 or so, or if it were higher, we could throw in our third round pick and second round pick to move up.

 

So we would pick #7 and say #25, instead of #5 and #35.

 

Or we would pick #7 and say #20, instead of #5 and #35, but also give up our third rounder.

 

With the caveat that I take Marner if he is there, outside of that, it is a good move for us. Not sure they would do it, but like you say, if there is a guy there at 5 that they want, who almost certainly will not be there at #7, it is a possiblity.

 

In this draft there are really nice players at #20. Really nice.

 

We get two first rounders in this deep draft, and at least two first rounders next year...

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As rem said, either some permutation of multiple picks OR picks and current players/ prospects.  Throwing signed prospects into the mix would seem to add a lot more trading flexibility than just current draft picks.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to go with kicking the tires. Making it known you might be willing to slide down if the deal is right might get some GMs thinking. It never hurts to look.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Smokescreen?  Kicking the Tires?

 

 

 

Looking to draft, Francis again said Canes might "slide down a bit" in 1st round if right deal was on table. Unlikely to try and move up.

8 retweets 6 favorites
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

My thinking is that if Marner is the one left after 4 picks, there may be somebody out there (2 or 3 spots down) that values him enough to overpay to get there.  If they have identified a player or two that they really like that will be available a couple of slots down, it makes sense to get an additional pick if they can.  I think if Hanifin or Strome is the odd man out, then RF walks up to the podium and makes the pick, unless of course somebody gets the overpayment right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or they're not sure about Hanifin.

 

Either way seems like they are not overly sold on Hanifin or Marner (one or both) vs "the field" of Ratanen, Crouse, etc. I agree if Strome is there we take him, but he won't be there probably. Also might just want to see what kind of offer might be there. This is a very deep draft, and if Francis wants to restock and fill multiple holes another pick late first or early second, OR a player, might be an option.

 

I saw a proposed trade w/ Philly where we swapped top picks, we gave up our second rounder and got a nice player back. I'll try to find it when I get a second.

 

I still want Marner, but in the end trust our scouts more than me.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea of entertaining any trade offers.  Putting the "for sale - make offer" sign on the pick and pushing it out to the street isn't a bad idea.

Edited by super_dave_1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do think that Francis knows that no one is giving up McDavid or Eichel, and after that might want to see if anyone will overpay. Moving up or down is pretty rare since it is usually hard to get both parties interested and to make the pieces fit, but they do happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Makes sense to me. 

  • Take Strome if he's available (not likely). 
  • Take Marner if he's available and if his potential trumps any size concerns from the organization's perspective. 
  • Trade down to somewhere in the 8-10 range otherwise..

Even if Hanifin is available, trade down.  Seems like there's a good chance he'll be "overvalued" given the early publicity surrounding him. He was lumped together with McDavid and Eichel at one time, although clearly that hasn't held up.  

 

If we're interested in going with a defenseman, either Provorov or Werenski should be available.  Provorov is generally regarded as the most NHL ready D prospect, and several scouts now have Werenski ahead of Hanifin.  Defensemen are so much harder to project than forwards, I suspect it's a crapshoot as to which of the three will eventually end up the best pick anyways.     

 

If we're going with offense and don't take Marner, a skilled forward with size will still be available (Rantanen, Crouse, Meier, etc.). 

 

Either way, the extra asset we get from trading down will be a big benefit given our lack of depth.  

Edited by LakeLivin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure how many on here are following the NHL draft this weekend, but I'm certainly hopeful that RF will fare better than the Panthers' Gentleman appears to be doing!! Of course, Gentleman is working with the 25th pick, but boy if this draft of his doesn't strike out, when one sticks to BPA!!He still has not shored up the glaring defect that team has in protecting it's most valuable assets, Cam Newton.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...