Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
Whaler1

2015 NHL Entry Draft

Recommended Posts

Good grief.  Reading these posts has me thinking JR is giving his insight on these forums. These is exactly what we need to do.  Throw away the 5th overall pick on some garbage contract in hopes of a fix me now type of season and not think about long-term success.

 

What a nightmare.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish I could be a fly on Eklund's wall to see where he get's most of this besides his rear.

 

Just don't be a fly on the dartboard on the wall of Eklund's office.  He must be throwing darts to come up with some of these.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

super_dave, PK17, rem, Lake etal, re: Phil Kessel and the ever dependable Eklund rumors. I don't have a dog in this fight(yeah, I know, "friendly discussion"), but I am caught in the middle on this issue.

On the one hand, there is "the source", and as rem ponders, wonder what Eklund's success rate is regarding his rumors?

On the other hand, I am as guilty as anyone on this board at "grabbing at straws". This proposed trade touches several nerves, both from a sense of ridding ourselves of a disappointing enigma, as well as possibly gaining a scorer with speed!

The problem is that while I can fantasize that Phil Kessel might simply need the proverbial "change of scenery" and could be the "key" to finally unlock the mystery that is Eric Staal, there is the very well demonstrated lack of "toughness" that is PK(Kessel not Karmanos). There does not seem to be the "proper fit" with what appears to be the Peter's system, yet could the present traits Kessel displays be a product of the suffocating environment in which he exists?

As I write this, I am immediately reminded that it was that exact mixture of possible resurrection of a floundering career and intrigue that we might experience a true "superstar", that brought Semin here on a wing and a prayer.

Curses that we have to go through that again, then again, WHAT IF????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish I could be a fly on Eklund's wall to see where he get's most of this besides his rear.

 

Probably from message boards. 

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just don't be a fly on the dartboard on the wall of Eklund's office.  He must be throwing darts to come up with some of these.

Darts would be more accurate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coastal's got it right, someone posted a fake rumor here once on purpose to see what would happen and it made it to Eklund's blog.

Edited by legend-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since I'm kicking this can around from the "not crazy" point of view, let me just point out that I am not chasing Eklund's rumor. My first post surmized one way Eklund might be making this stuff up, and pointed out that my musings were for entertainment value only.

 

Trades don't happen now, so Eklund can throw out all kinds of "high level" rumors to be long forgotten when the cup chase is over and the offseason starts. Lots of time for lots of new rumors.

 

Outside of the excellent playoff contest (which has turned bad for this guy) and scant playoff discussion, and a few posts on the World tourney, we are in the doldrums around here. So I look at Eklund's top top source rumor as nothing more than a trade proposal to kick around rather than picking navel lint.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coastal's got it right, someone posted a fake rumor here once on purpose to see what would happen and it made it to Eklund's blog.

 

Exactly, I remembered that distinctly but I don't remember who did it.  It was too funny though.

 

Anything rumor-related to the TML's you can just about throw out the window.  It's not even worth kicking the tires on because those fans want everyone to bow down to their awesomeness and pick up every garbage piece they have with a smile and thank you.

 

Maybe I missed some details in the longish posts I kind of skipped through so my apologies if it seemed I was misinterpreting anyone's intentions.  It is entertaining though in the dull times, even if it's just kicking the tires on a ridiculous trade proposal, so no worries, hopefully some good stuff comes out as we get closer to the draft.

 

Don't give up on the contest Rem, there is a long way to go and a lot of points to be had.

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TSNs Off Season Game Plan for the Canes: http://www.tsn.ca/off-season-game-plan-carolina-hurricanes-1.276002

 

Not sure how much stock I put into the author's analysis; one of his conclusions was that poor goaltending (based on Ward's save %) contributed to poor defensive +- numbers.  I'd say the opposite was true; poor defense contributed to lower than deserved save percentages.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The May ISS rankings just came out.

 

http://www.isshockey.com/iss-top-30/

 

1.  McDavid

2.  Eichel

3.  Strome

4.  Crouse

5.  Hanifin

6.  Marner

7.  Provorov

8.  Barzal

9.  Rantenen

10. Zacha

 

Seems like Hanifin and Provorov's trajectories are headed in the opposite direction with most prognosticators. Provorov's rise is more dramatic than Hanifin's fall, but it makes me wonder if they'd actually cross if there were more ice time before the draft.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly, I remembered that distinctly but I don't remember who did it.  It was too funny though.

 

Anything rumor-related to the TML's you can just about throw out the window.  It's not even worth kicking the tires on because those fans want everyone to bow down to their awesomeness and pick up every garbage piece they have with a smile and thank you.

 

Maybe I missed some details in the longish posts I kind of skipped through so my apologies if it seemed I was misinterpreting anyone's intentions.  It is entertaining though in the dull times, even if it's just kicking the tires on a ridiculous trade proposal, so no worries, hopefully some good stuff comes out as we get closer to the draft.

 

Don't give up on the contest Rem, there is a long way to go and a lot of points to be had.

 

coastal, do you really categorize Kessel as a "garbage piece"???  Sure, he's one dimensional, but he's also a 27yo elite NHL scorer, no?

 

I haven't opined as to whether I think he'd be a good fit for the Canes given his weaknesses, just that the concept behind that potential trade is intriguing.    

 

As noted, I think that almost everyone here recognizes that you can't put any real stock in an Eklund rumor; we're all just playing around. :tailgate:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The May ISS rankings just came out.

 

http://www.isshockey.com/iss-top-30/

 

1.  McDavid

2.  Eichel

3.  Strome

4.  Crouse

5.  Hanifin

6.  Marner

7.  Provorov

8.  Barzal

9.  Rantenen

10. Zacha

 

Crouse at #4? Really?

 

Some project him as a third liner. In this deepest of drafts, where guys compared to previous #1 overall picks WILL be at 4? (Strome/Marner).

 

It's funny because he is portrayed as a "low risk" pick because he is almost guaranteed to play a nice NHL career due to his game and size and skating, and I would agree he is a no brainer around #10-15, but at #4? That's where you get your elite scorers and #1 defenseman, and Crouse is neither of those.

 

If we pick Crouse at #5, then Francis clearly thinks that size and grit are needed more than putting the puck in the net.

 

It will be very interesting to see where he actually goes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

coastal, do you really categorize Kessel as a "garbage piece"???  Sure, he's one dimensional, but he's also a 27yo elite NHL scorer, no?

 

TML's want to rid themselves of Kessel and his massive contract.  Kind of garbage like in their eyes.   Typical Toronto fandom thinking that they deserve to have every piece they want and the non-entity teams should bow at their feet and submit.

 

If we pick Crouse at #5, then Francis clearly thinks that size and grit are needed more than putting the puck in the net.

 

Why does it have to be one or the other?  Maybe grittier play in the corners would put more pucks in the net.  One dimensional thinking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

coastal, do you really categorize Kessel as a "garbage piece"???  Sure, he's one dimensional, but he's also a 27yo elite NHL scorer, no?

 

I haven't opined as to whether I think he'd be a good fit for the Canes given his weaknesses, just that the concept behind that potential trade is intriguing.    

 

As noted, I think that almost everyone here recognizes that you can't put any real stock in an Eklund rumor; we're all just playing around. :tailgate:

 

I did not say that Kessel was garbage.  The point I made (relative to rumors) was that TML fans have a long history of suggesting players they don't like or want any longer are great fits for another team, whether the other team and its fans think so or not.

 

It IS surprising to me (at the point of being entertaining), and even though it's an Eklund rumor as you state, that there are actually Canes fans out there that would consider the proposed trade as making sense for our team after watching Jim Rutherford's moves over the last 6 years.

 

Especially considering he fact RF has been pounding it home through the local media that his intentions are to build through drafting and development.  If that is the case, why would you trade your high draft pick?

 

I won't because SD did a good job tackling the financial aspects, but if you want to go there, I'd be willing to oblige.  Otherwise see SD's post.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TML's want to rid themselves of Kessel and his massive contract Kind of garbage like in their eyes.   Typical Toronto fandom thinking that they deserve to have every piece they want and the non-entity teams should bow at their feet and submit.

 

 

Why does it have to be one or the other?  Maybe grittier play in the corners would put more pucks in the net.  One dimensional thinking.

 

sd & coastal:

 

True. But taking back Semin's contract would significantly soften the Kessel hit (7 years @ $5.7m per vs. $7.7m per).  That;s still a very long term, and again, I'm not arguing that Kessel would be a good move.  Just pointing out that "Semin adjusted" net numbers are what's relevant, not Kessel's actual salary.    

 

But you guys are way right regarding Leafs fans perspectives.  On the Leafs board some think that Kessel is worth two 1st round picks in and of himself. It's like they don't realize that last season actually happened.  :screwy:

Edited by LakeLivin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sd & coastal:

 

True. But taking back Semin's contract would significantly soften the Kessel hit (7 years @ $5.7m per vs. $7.7m per).  That;s still a very long term, and again, I'm not arguing that Kessel would be a good move.  Just pointing out that "Semin adjusted" net numbers are what's relevant, not Kessel's actual salary.    

 

I couldn't disagree more. 

 

Cap hits are more or less irrelevant when considering our team.  Salaries have much more bearing considering we normally don't spend to the cap (PK was quite vocal about being burned by doing that when GMJR talked him into it), and PK gives the GM an actual budget in dollars to work with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Crouse at #4? Really?

 

Some project him as a third liner. In this deepest of drafts, where guys compared to previous #1 overall picks WILL be at 4? (Strome/Marner).

 

It's funny because he is portrayed as a "low risk" pick because he is almost guaranteed to play a nice NHL career due to his game and size and skating, and I would agree he is a no brainer around #10-15, but at #4? That's where you get your elite scorers and #1 defenseman, and Crouse is neither of those.

 

If we pick Crouse at #5, then Francis clearly thinks that size and grit are needed more than putting the puck in the net.

 

It will be very interesting to see where he actually goes.

 

I never pretend to know more than the ISS and CSS scouts, whose job it is to evaluate players relative to their peers, and rank them accordingly.  Crouse has been ranked high for months now by both.  Are they just a bunch of hacks like us?  Probably not.

 

It's the GM and scouting staffs jobs to pick the player who best fits their teams long-term needs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does it have to be one or the other?  Maybe grittier play in the corners would put more pucks in the net.  One dimensional thinking.

 

I would argue focusing size is sort the definition of one demensional thinking. I think you have to bring a pretty elite level of skill to be picked at #4. They say that Crouse is an excellent skater and has good hands, maybe he has more skill than his numbers suggest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would argue focusing size is sort the definition of one demensional thinking. I think you have to bring a pretty elite level of skill to be picked at #4. They say that Crouse is an excellent skater and has good hands, maybe he has more skill than his numbers suggest.

 

This is ridiculous.  My size matters thing is a joke.  I have never said that it should be the end all/be all.  Just think what you want, and don't let your mind be changed by logic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sd & coastal:

 

True. But taking back Semin's contract would significantly soften the Kessel hit (7 years @ $5.7m per vs. $7.7m per).  That;s still a very long term, and again, I'm not arguing that Kessel would be a good move.  Just pointing out that "Semin adjusted" net numbers are what's relevant, not Kessel's actual salary.    

 

But you guys are way right regarding Leafs fans perspectives.  On the Leafs board some think that Kessel is worth two 1st round picks in and of himself. It's like they don't realize that last season actually happened.  :screwy:

 

 

I couldn't disagree more. 

 

Cap hits are more or less irrelevant when considering our team.  Salaries have much more bearing considering we normally don't spend to the cap (PK was quite vocal about being burned by doing that when GMJR talked him into it), and PK gives the GM an actual budget in dollars to work with.

 

Exactly. That's why the numbers I quoted are actual salaries rather than cap hits.  Perhaps I should have phrased it as "7 years at an actual salary that averages $5.7m per, etc." 

Edited by LakeLivin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is ridiculous.  My size matters thing is a joke.  I have never said that it should be the end all/be all.  Just think what you want, and don't let your mind be changed by logic.

 

For the record, I got a laugh out "Smiling Bob", as I do from many of your motifs. Matter of fact, I kind of wish you had a place where all of them were archived; kind of a pop culture peek at the state of Canes hockey over time. 

  :)

Edited by LakeLivin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the record, I got a laugh out of the "Smiling Bob" motif. :)

 

Don't worry.  I've changed it all for a better representation of what's going on around here these days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is ridiculous.  My size matters thing is a joke.  I have never said that it should be the end all/be all.  Just think what you want, and don't let your mind be changed by logic.

I know the size matters thing is a joke, and I've been a fan of smiling Bob since the begining. Maybe I overreacted to the line accusing me of one demensional thinking. I don't think the idea that picking Crouse at #5 might be overreaching is illogical, but I really would like to hear something abbout why he would be a good pick at #5. I know the ISS scouts have him there, others have him closer to 10.

 

Would you take Crouse at #5?

 

Coastal and SD. I do not pretend to know more than the ISS scouts. Yes, if not being a hack is a requirement to post on here, we're all in trouble. That's sort of the point of a board like this if I'm not mistaken. But they (ISS and Central Scouting) do get it wrong sometimes. If one takes the proponderance of GM's actual picks and the actual development of the actual players there is room for discussion. On Crouse I have read several scouting reports suggesting that he could end up being a role player. Just seems that #4 is a bit high. This is just my hack opinion, nothing more or less logical.

 

As to the Kessel thing...

 

Francis has also said that he would do what he thought best with our draft picks including trading them. I've read both sides of the Kessel in Toronto thing. I don't know. I've read articles by so called experts who say that Kessel, while far from perfect, was not the problem in Toronto. The guy has generally put up massive numbers, including in the playoffs, hard to do if you aren't playing hard (ask Semin), and has played in all 82 games 4 of the last 5 years. Which does not seem soft. He does not have a full NTC. The contract is entirely movable and reasonable after 4 years. I read two articles by Toronto media types saying Kessel should not be moved (three other guys names did come up). And the outgoing GM said Kessel was not the problem after he was gone (yes, he is biased). And a BIG part of the deal was the freeing us of the Semin debacle, which partly offsets the bad long contract thing.

 

A #5 pick is pretty safe and trading our #8 pick for J hurt, so I get it, but picks can bust, Kessel is an elite NHL scorer in his prime.

 

All I'm saying is that it is not insane.

 

Do I really think that trade will happen? No. I don't think that after Semin, Francis will take a chance on anyone with a whiff of bad attitude on the resume and Kadri has that as much or more than Kessel. And I don't think PK will sign up for that contract, even with Semin's contract leaving. But it is something to talk about and everyone else is on the 'it's nuts' side, so I presented the other side. There is talent there, and the jettisoning of Semin is not a small consideration either.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ISS has Crouse at 4, CSS has him at 5.  Both are the League recognized scouting services. I pay attention more to these rankings than anything else out there.  You really can't listen to team scouts because they are all blowing smoke right now.  And mock drafters are Billy Joe down the street, so let's not go there.I

 

Like you Rem, I am surprised that Crouse is ranked so high, but I can't ask ISS and CSS why.  I wish I could.  But that doesn't mean I don't respect their rankings.  Where there is smoke there is fire.  I've seen report after report that say Crouse is an animal, a freak, and the prototypical power forward.  And like you, I've read those that think he's more of a role player. 

 

I try not to get wrapped up in who I want the Canes to draft, because ultimately it's not my decision and I don't like let downs.  I thought Monahan would have been a better pick last year and he's done nothing to disprove that, but once we drafted Lindholm, I was a fan.

 

I still think building from the net out is the way to go, so if Hanifin is there, run up there without tripping all over yourself and make the pick RF. 

 

If Marner is there, I would have no problem if the Canes went that way.  The kid is slight but what a talent, and he actually already plays defense.

 

I'm done with the Kessel thing, everything that can be said has, and I'll leave it at that.  It's to the point now that someone is going to get their feelings hurt.

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...