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Whaler1

2015 NHL Entry Draft

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Reading back through some earlier posts I found it interesting that nobody seems to thinks Hanifin will play in the NHL next year.  If Jones and Ekblad did it, I see no reason Hanifin won't follow suit.  He's equally as good, and IMO, a better prospect than either of those two.

 

I also find it funny that people in general have jumped on the Craig Button "Hanifin is overrated" bandwagon (not necessarily here).  Button does this to somebody every year.  Button is the guy who is overrated.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Reading back through some earlier posts I found it interesting that nobody seems to thinks Hanifin will play in the NHL next year.  If Jones and Ekblad did it, I see no reason Hanifin won't follow suit.  He's equally as good, and IMO, a better prospect than either of those two.

 

I also find it funny that people in general have jumped on the Craig Button "Hanifin is overrated" bandwagon (not necessarily here).  Button does this to somebody every year.  Button is the guy who is overrated.

 

It could be because there is a lot of uncertainty about whether or not he wants to play in college again next year.

 

 

 

“Let time tell and see what happens with the draft,” said Hanifin, who has made a point of avoiding the hockey Twitterverse. “My plan is to come back next year. That’s my goal right now, but we’ll see. You’ve got to take your time. You’ll know when it’s ready. Discuss it with your family and your school and see what the right decision is.”

 

Source

 

Both Jones and Eckblad were coming from Juniors where most want to jump to the NHL as soon as possible. With college, some of the kids don't have the same desire to leave right away. 

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I thought I heard that Jones struggled some his first year (-23 protected, second worst on the team), Ekblad is the next Lidstrom he is the McDavid of the blue line. I'm not saying Hanifin isn't ready, but several tab Provorov as the most "NHL ready of the defenseman".

 

Also, the ranker that Min listed claimed to have come to his "Provorov over Hanifin" concluion himself and was glad to see Button also there (but who knows? There is definitely a lot of mock drafters picking up on each other's themes).

 

Defense just seems to be a really tough position to step right in. But is it better developementally to just get in there? In a perfect world it would seem that a stint in the AHL would be an ideal stepping stone, but guys don't want to leave college for that, especially elite picks.

 

Either way, as long as he doesn't Jack Johnson us.

Edited by remkin

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I meant to say that it seems people think he "couldn't play" in the NHL (i.e. isn't ready), rather than "will he play" in the NHL. 

 

I was aware of Hanifin making that statement two months ago, but I've heard many college players say the same thing and turn pro 6 months later.

 

And CHL players don't really have a choice, it's either an overage year or straight to the NHL for most, since the NHL-CHL agreement has a 20-year old rule in the AHL.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Personally (like my opinion matters much lol) I'm not necessarily down on Hanifin, just aware of the decreased precision in drafting young d-men due to their longer development time. That, plus the high projections for Provorov and Werenski, leave me wondering how likely it is that Hanifin actually turns out better than the other two.  Given that doubt, if we do decide to go D with our 1st pick, I'd hope we could trade down slightly and still get one of the big 3 D-men plus extra. 

 

(standard disclaimers)     

Edited by LakeLivin

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Not that my opinion matters either, but nonetheless if I was the GM this would be my plan (if possible) with our 5th pick.

1. Trade the Pick "that includes you must take Semin"... for a top pair D-man

2. Trade Skinner for any two way player who can score the puck and give you 15-20 goals

3. Time to restructure the E.Staal contract for a reduction.. 3yrs 3.5 million and retire a Cane

4. Take the savings from dumping Semin and E...and go find a new Captain....

 

Instant play-off team... if only was so easy

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Not that my opinion matters either, but nonetheless if I was the GM this would be my plan (if possible) with our 5th pick.

1. Trade the Pick "that includes you must take Semin"... for a top pair D-man

2. Trade Skinner for any two way player who can score the puck and give you 15-20 goals

3. Time to restructure the E.Staal contract for a reduction.. 3yrs 3.5 million and retire a Cane

4. Take the savings from dumping Semin and E...and go find a new Captain....

 

Instant play-off team... if only was so easy

 

1. I don't tie the pick in any manner to Semin.  That will only reduce the return.  This is a JR "quick fix".

2. No problems with trading Skinner for a two way player or Dman.

3. 3 years at 3.5 is not going to get it done.  EStaal hasn't been earning his big dollars, but he's worth more than $3.5.

4. Easier said than done.

 

But like you said..."if only was so easy"

Edited by super_dave_1

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2. I'm not dead set against moving Skinner, but only if we get a good return that includes a young player. He's shown that he can be an elite scorer and he's still only 22 years old.  I get the impression that he's maintained a positive attitude and I have a hunch he'll be willing to work on his areas of weakness under Peters tutelage.  I know people are down on him (understandable given this past season), but I'd really hate to see us sell Skinner at his lowest return.   

 

3. If we want to encourage E to waive his no trade clause, offering him an extension of 3 years @ $3.5m per is a good start. I'm still wondering how much his injuries at the start of the last 2 season might have hurt his production (that's a question, not an excuse)

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1.  I wouldn't trade this years pick.  Not a chance.  I'm also not seeing a first round pick as enough to land a top-pairing d-man when it's tied to Semin.  Agree with SD, seems like a JR move, giving up futures for a quick fix.  Most teams draft their top d-men (hint).

 

2.  Skinner's only 23 (Happy Birthday last Saturday), and I still have faith Peters and staff can work some magic with the kid.  Plus we would be selling low.

 

3.  3.5 mil per year?   :lol:  I do agree with a reduction, but that's low for even a low-ball offer.

 

4.   Yes

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I wonder if RF and E Staal would ever pull some sort of ruse where a team trade assets for Staal, thinking they'll be able to resign him and he just resigns with us anyway after the season's up.

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In an ideal world E would argree to a cut and no NTC but with serious incentive bonuses. Seems like not many of those in the NHL though. Maybe he gets $6 million/yr base, but incentives can bump it all the way to $9 million (say he hits 100 points again and we win the cup).

 

Are there contracts like that in the NHL? If so, not many. Imagine if Semin had one like that....

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If Hanifin is gone, and he probably will be to Yotes, get Marner or Crouse, BUT really want  RF to trade down one spot, get Rantanen, 6-1  175     rw.... Will be a bruiser along boards..This is my final answer :)I think incentive bonuses should be  done with, in all sports, they make enough already... I know ,it will never happen.  p.s,  NJ  will give us maybe a player or draft pick, hopefully a player to get to number  5..

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Hey all, long time no type, been finishing up a construction project and just gassed more often than not these days.

 

Briefly, maybe I'm imagining it or maybe it's true, but it's nice to see guys coming around to keeping and working with Skinner now that the season is over and it's easier to assess his potential. No question he put up a stinker of a year, no need to go over the reason why (one Matt Niskanen), and even I came around late in the season to the idea that if we get the right value/piece, he should be on the table. But I do want make a minor correction to something Tolstoy er, Rem put in his most recent lengthy post: Skinner has not had two bad years in a row. He led the team in goals the season prior to the one just completed with 33 and was uninjured throughout. Now that being said...

 

I've said all along what others here are noting: he's 23. People can (and have) complained all they like about his softness, his lack of D, etc. - but you can say the same things about Eric Staal, and he doesn't have youthful inexperience as an excuse. He shies away from hits, he hasn't been below his own blue line since 2009, and he's making more than 2x the money. 

 

Maybe Skinner stays, maybe he goes. Provided we're getting value back, I really don't care. But I've said this before, will say it again, and the numbers bear it out: This team is going nowhere while Eric Staal is "leading" it. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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There's a reason there aren't many contracts in the NHL with performance bonuses:

Performance bonuses will only be permissible for the following types of players: (1) players on entry-level contracts; (2) players signing one-year contracts after returning from long-term injuries (players with 400 or more games who spent 100 or more days on injured reserve in the last year of their most recent contract); and senior veteran players who sign a one-year contract after the age of 35.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26366

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yeah I guess it is hard to call 30 goals a bad season. I guess during the offseason I was really expecting a break out year in terms of points (he just barely broke 50) and his plus minus, despite scoring all of those goals was pretty bad.

 

I have seen Skinner come back from offseasons looking just awsome only to get concussed and throw it all off for long long stretches. Sometimes I do wonder if the league has "figured him out" some, since he has such an unconventional style, but I think it is more the former.

 

I do think trading him now would be selling low, though it is hard to sell high because if a guy is playing well, why trade him? If an GM wanted to give fair value based on his upside, we might find a guy more suited to us, but if not, a good offseason and staying healthy could lead to a true breakout where he pairs a few more assists and at least close to even plus minus with the goals.

Edited by remkin

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Just curious did Islanders draft their top-dmen?? cant remember.. 

 

1. If E doesnt want to deal, then do you pay him 9 mill next year and let him walk?? (Canes need a real leader)

2. JR move or not, if you move Sems and get a decent D-man for the pick.. that 5 million for sure vrs a kid you dont know? just saying

3. Like most of you I would like to see Skinner successful,, but honestly one more bell ring and he is toast, then you got nothing for him..trading low on the kid is better odds imo...

 

4. yeah I know its just talk... but something to do

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Skinner may not be the least of our problems, but the problems he represents aren't even close to those we have been saddled with by E. Staal for 10 years. I'd love for Staal to take a pay cut and no NTC. But how does your supposed leader agree to such concessions and still be seen as a leader in the room? Maybe he can. He does seem to have respect among his teammates. I just don't know.

 

Back to Skinner. I suggested a few times during the season that all he really needs is a physics lesson. He's already halfway there; figure skaters have a great sense of blade-to-ice physics by necessity. If he can learn the laws of bodies in motion he'll quickly understand that size is far less important than speed, force and leverage. Once you learn how to take a hit - how to tense your body at just the right time in order to absorb and minimize the force coming your way and even send some of it back in the other direction - injuries become rare, but for bruises. The real bonus: Understanding how to TAKE a check immediately makes one not only better at but more willing to THROW them, and to use one's body to protect the puck.

 

My hope is that Skinner is spending time this summer concentrating on the physics of hockey. Once he has them down, there's no reason he can't have a career that rivals that of Marty St. Louis. If he doesn't, however, I think he'll be lucky to play another five years, if that.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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No but post concussion you might shy away from board battles more, pull off the puck if contact is nearby, and just float in the middle defensively. Also, you might not go to the net as much and with as much tenacity.

 

I don't disagree Krule about the points on using his linemates and passing, and defensively soft either. Thats why he put up over 30 goals but barely 50 points and on the back end still a -14 second worst only to a hobbled Ruutu the year I called bad. There is no doubt that he has room to grow as a player.

 

He is 23, far from his peak.

 

The concussions have affected him though. Just watching him after returning from both concussions and last year's production point that out.

 

That said, he needs to find enough defense and board grit to be below average but not terribly soft, and needs to learn to pass even better.

 

On the other hand, if he can stay healthy and get on a 30 plus goal pace and at least stay near even and a 30 assist pace, he would become very tradable for a very nice return too. I just can't imagine Franicis is getting the kind of offers for him now that would induce pulling of the trade trigger.

 

It is worth noting that E. has been defensively challenged too, and if we keep E. it might be more reason to move Skinner at some point.

 

Edit: did I reply to a now deleted post?

Edited by remkin

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Yes Rem, I deleted it.

I've made my feelings about Skinner known, so I just deleted it.

I said the concussions may have affected his scoring, but he has always been a soft, selfish player who loses board battles and is a defensive liability.

He tried to beat guys one-on-one over and over last year (as others have observed). If he was affected severely by his concussions you would think he would hold up and look to others to pass to, but he does the opposite.

Concussions also don't make you cherry-pick just outside of your own blue-line, while not covering your man/responsibility.

Maybe Peters can work miracles with Skinner, but I think he is what he is......and what he has been even when healthy.

I can see the concussions affecting his willingness to go to the dirty-areas and overall goal-scoring, but all of the other holes in his game are not concussion related in my opinion.

I also mentioned Eric "going through the motions" Staal, basically saying that when it comes to him not a lot of positives come to mind.

I just don't have much faith in our highly paid forwards.

In the end I just deleted it because people know how I feel about Skinner, but more importantly because I'm willing to give him a chance to buy into Peters' system and be a team-player/contributor. I'm not optimistic but I'll try to be.

Unlike you, I'm not very good at being optimistic. :)

I wish I could be, but I'm not.

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Skinner is another case of JR rewarding a player with a big contract too early in their career.  I guess he felt he had to overpay and lock up young talent ASAP in order to keep players in Raleigh.  I could be wrong, but if that isn't the case, why on earth was he drawing up those contracts?  I'm hoping GMRF will go to more of the bridge contract model that doesn't reward players before they have time to even ripen on the vine.

 

My issue with Skinner is that he hasn't progressed as a player since that rookie year.   I'm not saying that he won't get better and he has certainly has his struggles with concussions.  It's not time to give up on him, but if RF had a trade that made sense, I wouldn't be opposed to bringing in a comparable player that better fits what Peters is trying to do.  What he can't do is "sell low" and take a beating.  If that is the only option, just stay the course.   

 

All that, and buy out Semin.  He sets off my hockey triggered Tourettes.

Edited by super_dave_1

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