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POLL: VOTE: Who Do You Trade?

Who Do You Trade?  

35 members have voted

  1. 1. You are the GM. The hockey gods have determined that you can only make one trade of a player making >$2 million. They have also determined the return, and NTC is waived: Who do you trade?

    • Eric Staal: Return: Mid first round draft pick, top 6 forward, defensive prospect
      2
    • Cam Ward: Mid first round draft pick
      9
    • Andrej Sekera: mid-late first round pick (UFA next year)
      7
    • Juri Tlusty: mid-late second round pick
      8
    • Jeff Skinner: #2 dman OR similar young forward with upside plus or minus picks if player lower quality
      8
    • Anton Khudoben: Mid first round draft pick
      0
    • Jordan Staal: mid-high first round pick, lower end top 6 forward
      0
    • None. (Assumes Sekera and Tlusty re-sign). I like our group
      1


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I really don't see us moving anybody that is under contract next year.  I'm not saying we shouldn't or that we don't want to move somebody, I just don't think it's likely to happen.  The real question is do we sign or trade the pending UFAs and if we sing them, what is the maximum price you would pay.

 

Sekera - Sign or Trade?  Maximum salary?

Tlusty - Sign or Trade?  Maximum salary?

Dwyer - Sign or Trade?  Maximum salary?

McClement - Sign or Trade?  Maximum salary?

Gleason - Sign or Trade?  Maximum salary?

 

It's easy to focus on Tlusty and Sekera, but what about Dwyer and McClement? These guys have a lot of value for us right now, but they would probably have trade value as well.  The PK alone would interest a contender at the deadline.

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Just a couple of notes:

 

What have you done for me lately?

 

A. I am fascinated that E. is getting no votes considering the heat he has taken. I know he is playing better lately, but still...again the poll assumes he would waive the NTC.

 

B. Skinner. The kid is struggling lately. (I do see a Skinner trade as very much in play). But he is only one vote shy of Tlusty, who is a UFA next year.

 

Tlusty is an easy one, but fair. To me a vote for Tlusty is as close to "we like our group" as possible w/o choosing "none".

 

Speaking of that, the reason that Tlusty and Sekera re-signing is assumed under "none" is that if not they will be traded and one should vote for the one they'd trade the most of those two.

 

The reason Dwyer and McClement were left off is that the bar was set at $2 million. I wanted to have people pick a fairly major player. Voting to move McClemment for a draft pick is pretty close to "we like our group" if your leaving all of the others untraded.

 

Again, Semin is the obvious problem child and would probably draw every vote, so it's not an option on the poll, but if you have a way to get something for him fire away w a response!

 

The poll assumes we can trade these guys. Every poll has limitations. So many on here act like something major has to happen. That we have to blow it up. Also that I've been crazy and wrong to think that this team is better than people think.

 

OK. Fair enough. What moves would you actually make? How about at least one? Actually propose something. Go on record. Take a shot.

Edited by remkin

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.... Actually propose something. Go on record. Take a shot.

 

OK, I would trade Skinner.  He should have value and he doesn't seem to fit the system.  I think the best bet would be to trade him for a defensemen.  I don't think we would find a partner to swap him for the type of forward we would want.  Arizona comes to mind as a possible trade partner.  They always seem to be loaded on the back end, but lack star power.  Skinner might be a good fit for them.

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OK, I would trade Skinner.  He should have value and he doesn't seem to fit the system.  I think the best bet would be to trade him for a defensemen.  I don't think we would find a partner to swap him for the type of forward we would want.  Arizona comes to mind as a possible trade partner.  They always seem to be loaded on the back end, but lack star power.  Skinner might be a good fit for them.

 

It's funny how things can flux, but I'm not disagreeing with you. Somehow recently a Skinner trade seems to move up the probability ladder. I voted for Ward because I want draft picks and to free up cap space and sell high and I think Khudini is for real, and I'm not sure Ward stays past next year anyway, and I'm not sure what kind of team we have next year, but, I am thinking Skinner's name might start popping up sooner than later.

 

Skinner should still have value and bring return. Skinner does not fit the Peters system any better than Semin really, and one wonders if that is part of his struggles. Not sure how Francis feels about NTCs, but Skinner will get one coming up. Skinner's concussion issues are not a minor issue. Even if not career ending, they can be seriously career limiting. Skinner would be an awesome sniper piece for an already strong team.

 

Skinner for top Dman could almost instantly cement our defense, especially if we sign Sekera: in a couple of years: Faulk, Fleury, Skinner Return Guy, Sekera would be a very good top 4. Also frees Francis to pick forwards in the first round of the draft.

 

Trading Skinner would be a big move. I can't help but think Francis is thinking, I can't trade a Staal or Ward, or Semin, I want to sign Sekera and if the money is right Tlusty....but dang....then I've made no moves. I have to make at least ONE big move. Hmmm. Skinner doesn't really fit the coach's system....hmmmmm.

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rem, not to say "I told you so" but--- look back at post #2! Oh well, looking at Skinner's play last night, I was more convinced than ever that he was the piece that could really launch this team to a new level! I still hate that I'm saying this as I really have and do like this kid, but time after time, he continually tried to "dance" thru defenders, in ways very reminiscent of "he whose name should not be spoken", even in Russian.

Sorry, I didn't intend to gloat, and as someone said, even a blond(darn spell check, meant blind but blond could work also) squirrel can find a nut sometime!!

One last thought, I wonder if Skinners is traded, would that affect the chemistry of our youngsters?

Edited by KJUNKANE

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Rem, not to hijack your poll thread, but just a few comments. I personally have never thought you were crazy or wrong suggesting the team on paper is better than the record indicates.  I applaud you for your persistence in believing. 

 

However, where we haven't seen eye-to-eye is recognizing that the team's record at any time is a reflection of the team's play on the ice.  I've also maintained that regardless of the "healthy" group's potential, teams are rarely healthy for extended periods of the season, and the Canes don't have the organizational depth to overcome significant injuries, or even minor ones, depending on the position.  With that said, not many teams can, but the teams that do make the playoffs seem to overcome injuries much better than others.

 

I predicted at the start of the season we would pick in a similar range to recent years, somewhere in the 7-10 range, given our propensity for slow starts, potential injuries to key players, and a less than stellar blueline.

 

I didn't predict Jordan would break his leg or Semin totally sucking, but more importantly I didn't predict the effect that good coaching, and a more defensively oriented system would have on the team's play.  I had faith in Peters, but the job Steve Smith has done with the defense just blows me away, and I think it's a big part of what we are seeing on the ice since Jordan returned.

 

Back to the poll.

 

I have thought that Sekera would be traded.  I still think that, but maybe there is more hope than I originally thought in getting him signed.  I voted Cam for the same reasons you listed above.  Trade Cam to pay Sekera.

 

I didn't vote either Staal because I think the brothers are connected at the hip and if one goes, the other would need to follow.  I still believe that.

 

I didn't vote Tlusty because there is really not much return there, IMO, considering the future of the club.

 

I really struggled with Skinner.  Whomever said Skinner is as much a defensive liabiltiy as Semin, and is probably no better fit in Peters system is right, and I totally agree.  But since we need D more than I think we need Skinner gone I went with Cam Ward, again for the reasons above.

 

I haven't really thought about the return for Skinner other than I think it needs to be a player, not futures.

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Fair enough Coastal. I think we're closer to agreeing than not. I never thought the team on the ice in October was that great of a team. This team historically, as with most teams goes on runs and droughts. We are currently on a run. I would argue that we are not as good as our run either. (This is not yet a 7-2 kind of team).

 

I appreciate your thoughtful response to the poll itself: All good points.

 

Because I can't help myself I will take one liberty, then spin it away. This team has been 7-2 or so, with nothing from Semin and Skinner. It is kind of like a team dealing with injured players. If one could project Skinner sniping and Semin putting up .8 ppg, one gets to the team I wrote about two years ago. We get to a team that is as good as our recent record.

 

But will Semin and Skinner be those pieces?

 

Semin and Skinner do not seem to be fitting into the North South Peters game. The Redwings though have always had high skill guys up front, just not exactly like Skinner/Semin. With Semin....there is no choice but to try to Hammer that round peg into the square hole (see what I did there?) until a trade or buy out. But Skinner....what if we could get a very good, maybe not quite as dynamic, but fast and good piece that IS more Peters like for him to fit into our top 6? Or, get a solid dman and draft Skinner's replacement (there are several big forwards in the top half of the draft).

 

We need to pick up one more first round draft pick though....

 

Not sure if he would bring it, but Ward/Tlusty for a first rounder? Then Skinner for a very good dman and a pick? Sign Sekera.

 

Defense upgraded. Draft a group of dynamic, bigger forwards.

 

Anyway, finally, appreciate the part about "not many teams do". That is a fact. We dropped two of our top 4 forwards basically the entire time we were awful: Semin and J. But the Eric and Skinner, the other two also struggled. There are almost no teams that could handle that hit to their top 4 forwards.

 

Still, here we are, in that same, familiar place....getting good at a less than ideal time.

 

Oh well, we weren't beating Buffalo anyway, so maybe we get lucky and win the lottery.

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cclifford10, surely you jest with this? Reinhart may develop like a 1st rounder, but at present, not so much. I would think that we'd need a pick to go with this for Skinner, with all his warts?

Edited by KJUNKANE

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[Armchair GM]Eric and Cam like it here, and won't waive their NTCs.  They're here another year.  I'd try to sign Sekera, but if he want's more than the team can budget, trade him.  I'd trade Tlusty to some contender who needs secondary scoring(Hello, Islanders!)

Skinner is in play. He is also concussion prone, and in a couple years a NTC kicks in.

 

The thing about a Skinner deal is we might get no warning. No rumblings until a deal is either done or nearly done.

 

The key on trading Skinner is return. A GM is not going to trade that many future points from such a young dazzling star without a serious return. Boston kind of did that w/ Seguin and is probalby not feeling great about it right now.

That's the problem.  The years Skinner doesn't have a concussion, he scores 30+ goals.  The years he does, he struggles.  I would be open to trade him, if we got a good return(low 1st or 2nd plus prospect).  I wouldn't trade anyone under 22 years old, unless some other GM was willing to overpay.  Keep Khudobin, in case we let Ward walk. that way we have time to develop the goalies we have in the system.  The 4th line is clicking,I'd try to sign them to similar deals to this year, if they balk, trade 'em for 5th-7th rounders.[/Armchair GM]

 

My one question, do we have any other new scouts besides Samsanov and Nieuwendyk?  We need good scouting. All the #1 picks in the world do a team no good with out good drafting and development.  Look at the Oilers, nobody other than the 1st Rounders  from the last 5 years are playing with the organization. :facepalm2:

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[Armchair GM]Eric and Cam like it here, and won't waive their NTCs.  They're here another year.  I'd try to sign Sekera, but if he want's more than the team can budget, trade him.  I'd trade Tlusty to some contender who needs secondary scoring(Hello, Islanders!)

That's the problem.  The years Skinner doesn't have a concussion, he scores 30+ goals.  The years he does, he struggles.  I would be open to trade him, if we got a good return(low 1st or 2nd plus prospect).  I wouldn't trade anyone under 22 years old, unless some other GM was willing to overpay.  Keep Khudobin, in case we let Ward walk. that way we have time to develop the goalies we have in the system.  The 4th line is clicking,I'd try to sign them to similar deals to this year, if they balk, trade 'em for 5th-7th rounders.[/Armchair GM]

 

My one question, do we have any other new scouts besides Samsanov and Nieuwendyk?  We need good scouting. All the #1 picks in the world do a team no good with out good drafting and development.  Look at the Oilers, nobody other than the 1st Rounders  from the last 5 years are playing with the organization. :facepalm2:

 

Looking at a team like Edmonton makes me appreciate some of the players we have.  You look at Eric, Skinner, Lindholm, Faulk, Rask, Ward.  That's a pretty decent mix of 1st and 2nd rounders we have.  The problem we've run up against is when you play with a team based off of players drafted by an organization, it takes years of inconsistency and bad play that this team didn't want to wait around for, which ironically is what they got anyways.  I don't particularly have that much problems with the players we've drafted, just more so how we've developed them.

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Fair enough Coastal. I think we're closer to agreeing than not. I never thought the team on the ice in October was that great of a team. This team historically, as with most teams goes on runs and droughts. We are currently on a run. I would argue that we are not as good as our run either. (This is not yet a 7-2 kind of team).

 

I appreciate your thoughtful response to the poll itself: All good points.

 

Because I can't help myself I will take one liberty, then spin it away. This team has been 7-2 or so, with nothing from Semin and Skinner. It is kind of like a team dealing with injured players. If one could project Skinner sniping and Semin putting up .8 ppg, one gets to the team I wrote about two years ago. We get to a team that is as good as our recent record.

 

But will Semin and Skinner be those pieces?

 

Semin and Skinner do not seem to be fitting into the North South Peters game. The Redwings though have always had high skill guys up front, just not exactly like Skinner/Semin. With Semin....there is no choice but to try to Hammer that round peg into the square hole (see what I did there?) until a trade or buy out. But Skinner....what if we could get a very good, maybe not quite as dynamic, but fast and good piece that IS more Peters like for him to fit into our top 6? Or, get a solid dman and draft Skinner's replacement (there are several big forwards in the top half of the draft).

 

We need to pick up one more first round draft pick though....

 

Not sure if he would bring it, but Ward/Tlusty for a first rounder? Then Skinner for a very good dman and a pick? Sign Sekera.

 

Defense upgraded. Draft a group of dynamic, bigger forwards.

 

Anyway, finally, appreciate the part about "not many teams do". That is a fact. We dropped two of our top 4 forwards basically the entire time we were awful: Semin and J. But the Eric and Skinner, the other two also struggled. There are almost no teams that could handle that hit to their top 4 forwards.

 

Still, here we are, in that same, familiar place....getting good at a less than ideal time.

 

Oh well, we weren't beating Buffalo anyway, so maybe we get lucky and win the lottery.

Grouping Skinner with Semin is nothing short of ridiculous.

 

One of Ron's stated goals was to get bigger and play bigger. But even big teams need speedy snipers. Semin is neither speedy nor sniping these days - and he's not even using his size. Fortunately we've got pieces on D and a couple up front (E in particular) who have FINALLY begun to play as big as they are. That is a huge factor, and one that can allow the finesse guys to do their thing.

 

I grew up watching Bobby Clarke. Do you really think he's half the player he became if Schultz, Kelly, DuPont and Saleski were not ready to - literally - kill anyone who touched him? Clarke was a little guy like Skinner who got pushed around like Skinner. The only two differences: (1) he had guys who had his back, and (2) he played really, really dirty, so his predators would think twice.

 

Really, really dirty play is no longer tolerated in this league. Even if it were, I doubt Skinner is going to play that way. What is still permitted are clean checks and proxy fights (though not the all-out blood wars of days gone by), and one needs look no further than Marty St. Louis to see what a talented small forward can do - provided his teammates have his back.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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cclifford10, surely you jest with this? Reinhart may develop like a 1st rounder, but at present, not so much. I would think that we'd need a pick to go with this for Skinner, with all his warts?

 

First of all, if you read my post, I said a deal involving Skinner and Reinhart.  I never said straight up.  Second, I'm not sure where you think Reinhart's development is off track.  He is right where he should be at his age.  He hasn't been rushed and is gaining great experience in his first professional season.  I really doubt the Islanders would make that trade straight up.

 

This is the kind of deal that deal that might be possible for Skinner.  If you think a team is going to trade you a fully developed top 2 defender for Jeff Skinner, I'm afraid you will be very disappointed.  If we want long term growth, these are the types of players we should be targeting. 

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So, love to get a few more votes! Don't have to comment to vote.

 

Current thoughts on the poll:

 

I think the votes for Sekera are probalby more thinking his price will be too high, or he doesn't really want to stay. It is hard to imagine that people really want him gone.

 

I interpret the Tlusty votes as voting for the tinker. I do find this interesting, because I would argue that votes for Sekera and Tlusty are bascially votes that this team's core is better than advertised. Which is half the votes on here. But wait...there's more...a vote for Ward is even more of a vote of confidence in the core. Basically we add a draft pick plus our draft pick to the current team.

 

So votes for Tlusty, Sekera, and Ward all suggest the "core" is OK. That would be 75% of voters.

 

To break up the core, one must really vote for a Staal, or Skinner, though even Skinner leaves the 2 Kings in place.

 

Again, the question gives the presumption that either Staal will waive. But no one has voted for either Staal. At this point I have to attribute that to the "what have you done for me lately?" thought process, because the Staal brothers are playing the best we've seen in a long long time. Of course, as it goes, Eric is also increasing his trade value.....

 

Dont' get me wrong. I voted for Cam. I would have voted for Tlusty but I want at least one more first round pick and I (possibly incorrectly) assume that Cam will fetch a first round pick. To be frank if Tlusty wants too much money, I'd get a second rounder for him or whatever. I like Tlusty, but he is a complementary player and may want star money.

 

Anyways, till now it is instructive that despite at least a lot of suggestion that this group needs to be blown up, only 25% are voting for a version of that and ZERO are voting true blow up, which would mean moving E.

 

At least at the moment it appears we have affection for our collection. (See what I did there? It rhyms too).

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Clifford, although you make a good point, and as I pointed out originally, Skinner for me is just too unpredictable, he does have a "known" quality, when he's on. I did misinterpret your communication, but if in your further clarification, you were implying by "I doubt the Islanders would make that trade straight up", that the Canes would need to add something else, than forget that.

Now, your previous post linking Canes to Arizona, I like that idea,

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I think the available choices and sideboards on the poll force the result that we have "affection for our collection" more than it (the opinions of the 20 people who responded) actually represents a collective opinion.  At least that's the way I view it.  

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Polls lke this one are tricky because by definiiton and design the options have to be limited.

 

The idea of this poll is to pin people down a bit in the vote. Try to remove the impediments to get at what people think is the problem. So when people say E will never waive, and so forth, well this poll is not an attempt to find the actual answer for Francis, it is to try to figure out who people see as the problem. Who would you actually trade if you could? Make a move, not just a general comment.

 

Anyway, I agree that the discussion is a bit less we like our group, but not the poll.

 

Over the past 3 years there has been a litany of trade Eric. The captain this and that. And yet, with a pretty decent return offered for the guy currently paid in the top 8 of all NHL players in this poll and assming he would waive, so far not one person would move E.

 

The thing polls can get at is that kind of thing.

 

Anyway, I think it has some interesting findings, but the n is still small.

Edited by remkin

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....I grew up watching Bobby Clarke. Do you really think he's half the player he became if Schultz, Kelly, DuPont and Saleski were not ready to - literally - kill anyone who touched him? ....

Yep, just about everything that was wrong with the game when those bunch of no talent thugs arrived.  Clarke had talent, but his dirty play was even worse because of his thug teammates.

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Yep, just about everything that was wrong with the game when those bunch of no talent thugs arrived.  Clarke had talent, but his dirty play was even worse because of his thug teammates.

What's worst of all is that people my age who are now STHs in Philly are EXACTLY THE SAME as they were as kids! To their credit, most can see that Zac Rinaldo is a no-talent cheap-shot artist. But I went to a couple games when JWilly and Seidenberg were in Philly before moving here and was AMAZED that the crowd was basically still a bunch of adolescent animals whose primary concerns were intimidating the visiting team and any fans of them who made the mistake of wearing a team sweater to the game.

 

Oh, and all completely blasted, of course.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Polls lke this one are tricky because by definiiton and design the options have to be limited.

 

The idea of this poll is to pin people down a bit in the vote. Try to remove the impediments to get at what people think is the problem. So when people say E will never waive, and so forth, well this poll is not an attempt to find the actual answer for Francis, it is to try to figure out who people see as the problem. Who would you actually trade if you could? Make a move, not just a general comment.

 

Anyway, I agree that the discussion is a bit less we like our group, but not the poll.

 

Over the past 3 years there has been a litany of trade Eric. The captain this and that. And yet, with a pretty decent return offered for the guy currently paid in the top 8 of all NHL players in this poll and assming he would waive, so far not one person would move E.

 

The thing polls can get at is that kind of thing.

 

Anyway, I think it has some interesting findings, but the n is still small.

I think another inherent flaw in the poll is that it negates that maybe this org has already been blown up by Bill Peters and Ronnie, at least as much as it will be before the off-season, with the possible exceptions of Tlusty and Sekera if they can't be signed by the TD.

 

I've put this theory forth before, that if you take the injuries into account, they have not had the roster they expected to have October 1 until about Jan 5. If the Staals stay legit they earn they keep enough to be with the club at the start of next season. There is no doubt the brotherly chemistry I've been talking about since J was signed - during which time I've also maintained E belongs on the wing - is there. But if one or both come out slow - and hell, let's hang a number on it, if they don't match their production over the past 10 days extrapolated into a month's numbers by November 1, we pull the trigger. We've seen Eric's slow start act like Bill Murray has lived Groundhog Day. If we're not smart enough to make very clear that they (E in particular) had best show up in the fall ready to start the SEASON "on time," and maybe ask them put their NTCs on the line if they fail as a show of commitment, we're not smart enough, period.

 

But I think both RF and Bill are plenty smart, and that their tough love with the Sedin Twins Staals occurs out of the public sphere.

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Not to keep defening the poll, btw if you ever do a poll, and anyone can do one, get ready to have it's flaws commented on, but anyhoo...

 

The poll asks what you would do. Who would you trade? And one option is "we like our group". Which would apply to trade no one.

 

Really the only option not on there was trade Semin because it would be so hard to do and we don't need a poll to determine what people would do if he could be traded.

 

I don't know that I would call the moves made to this point blowing it up though.

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No doubt Im in the minority, then again when am I not?? Nonetheless if I was making the call, and minus all the NTC issues. E would be first on my list. Reason, the guy doesnt show up in Oct-Dec. and usually by the time he does the season is toast. Time for a full blown new C wearing leader....Skins is next for all head gone bad reasons, Sems gets a buy out or a boat ride to Russia..... 8 million or so a year for two goalies is a lot to take on, but the way they are playing, id try to find away to keep the two and rebuild around them... just my nickle....

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I don't really think Tlusty will bring much of a return.  He's only scored more than 0.5 ppg once in his career and for a goal scorer, he has only scored 20 goals once in his career.  We should try to resign him, but only for a salary that is commensurate with his production. 

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Ruh??  If you're acknowledging that we're going to lose Tlusty next season anyways, why not get a draft pick in return instead of losing him to free agency?  Either way you lose his salary.  And despite our nice start to the new year, it's not like his staying will contribute to a playoff run.  That ship has sailed unless we're part of a miracle run . . .

Hmm, I thought I put up a reply to this yesterday but it either disappeared or I never hit "post." Sorry for the delay, Lake.

 

To answer the question: Because a draft pick for Tlusty at this point is not as valuable *to us* as letting him play out the rest of the season. To me it's worth a shot that playing him with E and J the rest of the way raises his game and gives that line a cohesiveness that he will have to factor into his thinking as he contemplates other offers.

 

It's easy to forget how long Jiri has been here. He was acquired mid 2009, long enough to have "settled in" locally. He also was a big part of our playoff run that year. So if he sees the potential for this team to be a winner and to pull first-line minutes, maybe he decides to stay. If he opts not to, fine, we took our best shot. On a forward-rich team where competitiveness for every slot is the new sheriff, the loss of a draft pick is a small risk when you consider the potential upside: A guy who already has playoff experience with this team, going all the way to the Conference Final, winning a first-line role. 

 

The more I watch what's happening under Peters, the more convinced I become that it has already been "blown up" - by a coaching and management style that accepts no excuses (unlike previous ones). Any player has to like that, knowing where they stand and what they have to do to get where they want to be. Tlusty is being given a shot to be a first-line winger right now, and while a miracle run would be nice, it may not be required to keep him. A strong second half and winning a first-line slot could be enough to convince him to stay. If not, so be it.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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