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caneswincup

It's that time of year...Season Ticket Renewal email

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Ticket reps may really be getting the business, but if so they have been told to deny it. At about 4:30 today, I vented for 10 minutes to one of them, then apologized, saying "I know you have been getting these complaints all day." she told me I was the first person to say anything negative about the new plans. Honest.

I plan to re-up for the 11 game plan for one more year. But it sure looks like adding this insult to the terrible play of the past 2 seasons is intended to shrink, not grow the ticket base. Can someone remind me of how Mr. Waddell's tenure ended in Atlanta? Wonder what methods he employed there to try to sell more tickets and save the franchise?

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I didn't call my rep to vent. I simply sent him an email asking if the team was going to move all the sales staff to Vegas when they moved. Knowing that he had no part in designing the new plans, I sent a lengthy email to Don Waddell (club Pres.) and Sara Daniel (VP of ticket sales). I know it will be useless, but it makes me feel better.

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I'm less irritated about the price rise and loss of games for small plans, than I am for the total vacuum of information regarding them.    I can't even see where it says you don't get assigned seats anymore, but through Chip's article and you guys here, I understand that is the case.  That is probably what gets me.

 

As I said, entertainers are all jacking us bad, and we collectively pay, so a price rise is not a surprise.  I am surprised by the restructuring of plans.

 

And going to gold/silver/bronze is actually OK with me.  About time they make the popular opposing fans pay more.

 

I'm also not terribly upset about treating full STHers more than partial.  I was a full STHer and I couldn't give a crap about their extras.  Not my thing.  I just want to see the games, so I really don't care about special exclusive events.  Apparently that is real important to a lot of people hence I think they are putting pressure on partial planners to go full with those goodies.  Doesn't matter to me.  But I guess count in the assigned seats as a perk taken away from small plans to get me to move up.  Whatever.

 

Finally, they are really quite crafty in the way they are quoting Cane's average price per seat.  The FanZone is brilliant to help them quote a price that doesn't match reality for 80% of the seats.  Nice move.  But watch out FanZoners... you will be squeezed next.

Edited by wxray1

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I'll just say this. The best bargain in sport is NHL playoff hockey. Winning a playoff series is priceless. Plus, to make the playoffs you have to have at least a slightly above average regular season team too (generally). If the Canes want to ease the pain of regular season prices, that would be a good place to start: reward us with the occasional playoff game.

Edited by remkin

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We were debating the entertainment sales tax last night and whether it was repealed and, if not, what it actually is because it seemed high on the renewal invoice. If I'm reading this right, our tax should've been 4.75%, not 6.75: http://www.dornc.com/taxes/sales/impnotice062514.pdf anyone with greater tax knowledge able to answer that?

Edited by caneswincup

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I'll just say this. The best bargain in sport is NHL playoff hockey. Winning a playoff series is priceless. Plus, to make the playoffs you have to have at least a slightly above average regular season team too (generally). If the Canes want to ease the pain of regular season prices, that would be a good place to start: reward us with the occasional playoff game.

 

You know, you really only need to put average hockey out there to make the playoffs.  16 of 30 teams make it.  It's the 6 years of missing out on this that make the changes for partial plan STH's so bad.

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With how long this JR "rebuild" went on we deserve a dynasty by now.

 

 

Well, last year about this time PK said that fans "needed to be more patient".  I wonder what miracle spin he will put on this?

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We were debating the entertainment sales tax last night and whether it was repealed and, if not, what it actually is because it seemed high on the renewal invoice. If I'm reading this right, our tax should've been 4.75%, not 6.75: http://www.dornc.com/taxes/sales/impnotice062514.pdf anyone with greater tax knowledge able to answer that?

Yes. On top of the 4.75% state sales tax, there is a local sales tax of 2%. The local sales tax is tied to the state sales tax, so when the Republican General Assembly voted in the sales tax on tickets, the local sales tax kicked in as well. You can thank your local representatives for 6.75% of your ticket price increase.

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Yep, though apparently the revenue sharing portion of the CBA isn't public, Buffalo has been very vocal about it's role in their rising ticket prices. From http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/john-vogl/cap-hike-may-not-mean-lower-ticket-costs-20131222:

 

The CBA dictates that clubs that receive revenue sharing must keep pace with the league’s average ticket price. If the teams fall below 75 percent of the average they “shall be required to submit to the league and Revenue Sharing Oversight Committee a forward-looking three-year business plan to establish a framework for improving its financial performance.”

 

The remainder of the article makes it clear that revenue sharing would be at risk if the ticket prices are not at the required level, not just that a business plan would have to be submitted.

 

Invisible doesn't post often, but when he (she?) does, it's usually good stuff . . . :thumbsup:

 

The link above doesn't work for me, here's one that does:

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sabres-nhl/sabres-season-tickets-to-rise-4-20140507

 

If it is the CBA clause that's driving the price increases, seems like the Canes office is making a big mistake by not letting customers know that fact. 

Edited by LakeLivin

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Just weighing in for what its worth- I too sent a lengthy email to "DON" expressing my displeasure-concerns.

Here goes... Are you kidding me?

Let me recap- I'm a 6 year season ticket holder granted it's the 12 game pack (I live on the coast and travel 2 hours 1 way to games) I've remained "loyal" even though I've witnessed more losses than wins-prices have increased each year-parking has increased and the "experience" of having more opposing fans in the building on some nights has been less than pleasurable.In the past I was  "given" 2 voucher games with my 12 game pack-which I'm losing with their wonderful "flex" pack this year-Up until this renewal I was able to choose my 2 seats for the 12 games-which are now being assigned to me based on what game I "choose" which brings me to the best part of all...I will have NO idea what this is going to cost me- based on the "Bronze"- "Silver" - "Gold" pricing for seats that I have no clue where they will be from game to game-

Ok well I ended with "Thanks for the Memories"

Guys and Gals I don't know how everyone else feels but this whole "flex" thing and selling it like its what the ticket holders asked for is ridiculous! The "Flex" idea is so they can be "Flexible" with where I sit and how much they charge me for the seats they assign me-

I should have asked him since my seat prices change based on who we are playing will they also change based on whether we win or lose? Are they going to refund me part of the ticket price if we lose?

Throwing this out there- Are there any full season holders out there that would like to sell me a few games?

LETS GO CANIACS!!!

I say we flood their inboxes- it may not do any good at all but it will make me feel better

Hey Front office Thanks for your "loyalty"

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You know, you really only need to put average hockey out there to make the playoffs.  16 of 30 teams make it.  It's the 6 years of missing out on this that make the changes for partial plan STH's so bad.

 

True. That's why I put "generally", since an average team is a cut line team. But I agree. The bar is not super high in hockey for making the playoffs, I guess in the East it is a little higher. And some are apparently kicking around adding even more teams to the playoffs. Pretty soon it could by like College Football bowl season.

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Throwing this out there- Are there any full season holders out there that would like to sell me a few games?

 

I'd be happy to sell you some tickets next season. I'm in lower level south top 8 rows. 

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We were debating the entertainment sales tax last night and whether it was repealed and, if not, what it actually is because it seemed high on the renewal invoice. If I'm reading this right, our tax should've been 4.75%, not 6.75: http://www.dornc.com/taxes/sales/impnotice062514.pdf anyone with greater tax knowledge able to answer that?

Effective January 1, 2015, the gross receipts derived from an admission charge to an entertainment activity sold at retail to a live event occurring on or after January 1, 2015, are subject to the 4.75% general State and applicable local and transit rates of tax regardless of when the initial sale of a ticket to the event occurred.

Edited by wxray1

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Invisible doesn't post often, but when he (she?) does, it's usually good stuff . . . :thumbsup:

 

The link above doesn't work for me, here's one that does:

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sabres-nhl/sabres-season-tickets-to-rise-4-20140507

 

If it is the CBA clause that's driving the price increases, seems like the Canes office is making a big mistake by not letting customers know that fact. 

 

Someone has to be below 75%.  These kinds of clauses are automatic inflation.  There's no way prices can be even stable with this kind of clause!.  Good job Players!  You won this one on the owners.

 

And we suffer the consequences.  

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If we renew, we'll be selling a fair portion of them, plus whatever vouchers were left with this time around.

Just weighing in for what its worth- I too sent a lengthy email to "DON" expressing my displeasure-concerns.

Here goes... Are you kidding me?

Let me recap- I'm a 6 year season ticket holder granted it's the 12 game pack (I live on the coast and travel 2 hours 1 way to games) I've remained "loyal" even though I've witnessed more losses than wins-prices have increased each year-parking has increased and the "experience" of having more opposing fans in the building on some nights has been less than pleasurable.In the past I was  "given" 2 voucher games with my 12 game pack-which I'm losing with their wonderful "flex" pack this year-Up until this renewal I was able to choose my 2 seats for the 12 games-which are now being assigned to me based on what game I "choose" which brings me to the best part of all...I will have NO idea what this is going to cost me- based on the "Bronze"- "Silver" - "Gold" pricing for seats that I have no clue where they will be from game to game-

Ok well I ended with "Thanks for the Memories"

Guys and Gals I don't know how everyone else feels but this whole "flex" thing and selling it like its what the ticket holders asked for is ridiculous! The "Flex" idea is so they can be "Flexible" with where I sit and how much they charge me for the seats they assign me-

I should have asked him since my seat prices change based on who we are playing will they also change based on whether we win or lose? Are they going to refund me part of the ticket price if we lose?

Throwing this out there- Are there any full season holders out there that would like to sell me a few games?

LETS GO CANIACS!!!

I say we flood their inboxes- it may not do any good at all but it will make me feel better

Hey Front office Thanks for your "loyalty"

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Someone has to be below 75%.  These kinds of clauses are automatic inflation.  There's no way prices can be even stable with this kind of clause!.  Good job Players!  You won this one on the owners.

 

And we suffer the consequences.  

 

I don't think that's necessarily true wxray.  If the clause said "below the average ticket price" it would be (unless everyone charged the same).  But since it's "below 75% of the average ticket price", it only kicks in if the range across teams is wide enough. 

 

Extremely simplified examples:

  1. 3 team league, avg season ticket prices of $1100, $900, $700, respectively.  Avg league season ticket price = $900.  Times .75= $675 threshold, so the clause wouldn't kick in.
  2. 3 team league, avg season ticket prices of $5000, $3000, $1000, respectively.  Avg league season ticket price = $3000.  Times .75= $2250 threshold, so the clause would kick in for that $1000 team.
Edited by LakeLivin

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I don't think that's necessarily true wxray.  If the clause said "below the average ticket price" it would be (unless everyone charged the same).  But since it's "below 75% of the average ticket price", it only kicks in if the range across teams is wide enough. 

 

Extremely simplified examples:

  1. 3 team league, avg season ticket prices of $1100, $900, $700, respectively.  Avg league season ticket price = $900.  Times .75= $675 threshold, so the clause wouldn't kick in.
  2. 3 team league, avg season ticket prices of $5000, $3000, $1000, respectively.  Avg league season ticket price = $3000.  Times .75= $2250 threshold, so the clause would kick in for that $1000 team.

 

You are right!  I read it wrong.  Sorry.

 

I'm still cranky so I'll leave my rant at the players in there.  These guys have had handsome raises over the last 10 years and two lock outs.  I surely can't keep up.  But again, all live entertainment is suffering the same out of balance increase.

Edited by wxray1

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Took a quick look (as best I could) at average team ticket prices for NHL teams and I'm guessing that Canes price increases are not driven by the CBA revenue clause.

 

This is the best site I could find listing average season ticket prices for NHL teams.  There are other sites that list after market (e.g., Stub Hub) average ticket prices, but that's not what the NHL counts.

 

https://www.teammarketing.com/public/uploadedPDFs/nhl%20fci%2015.pdf

 

It's dated Oct. 2014 but lists Canes parking at $10, so right there it's questionable. And it states that "Premium seating (tickets that come with at least one added amenity) are not included in the ticket average."  Whatever that means, but it doesn't add to my comfort level as to accuracy.

 

But even if it's in the same zip code, it indicates that Canes have got to be well within 75% of the league average threshold without a price increase.  Canes listed at $61.  League avg listed at $62, 75% of 62 = $46.5.  Sabres listed at $50, Dallas at $37, TB at $45.  Assuming those other teams are within the threshold, doesn't sound at all close for Canes to me.   

Edited by LakeLivin

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Just did a little math. I'm a lowly 12 gamer in the UGZ South. With the new system, let's just assume that I'd split my games up between the Gold/Silver/Bronze so I'd go 4 gold, 4 silver, and 3 bronze. Face it, the bronze ones are going to be Tuesday vs. Winnipeg. Now, partial package people are going to be paying more for those games too, just like walk ups (but with some discount). When I figured my average game price for 2014/2015 (14 games including vouchers) and compare it to what I figured would be the cost for 11 next season splitting up the games as I indicated, my per game cost would increase by 43%. I was spending $41.86 for two cheap seats and next year my average would be $60.00. Just for reference, I can buy two seats for this Friday night in my section on stubhub right now for $21 each.

That's a 43% increase in my per game cost. Waddell can spin it however he likes, that is the actual number for the increase. Yeah, I'm really happy about this. I had figured it at 32% yesterday, but that was all at the Bronze pricing level. The real number is 43% if you split the types of games into thirds. I'm sure that others would find out something similar if they did the math.

What has happened that would justify a 43% price increase?

Edited by super_dave_1

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But even if it's in the same zip code, it indicates that Canes have got to be well within 75% of the league average threshold without a price increase.  Canes listed at $61.  League avg listed at $62, 75% of 62 = $46.5.  Sabres listed at $50, Dallas at $37, TB at $45.  Assuming those other teams are within the threshold, doesn't sound at all close for Canes to me.   

 

So where does Mr. Waddell get by saying, and I quote: "As you may be aware, the Hurricanes rank in the bottom five in the NHL for average ticket pricing."

 

i'm guessing it has to do with the way Mr. Waddell factors in all the Fan Zoners versus other ways to pick average.  I.E. since all those seats are signed up, they must somehow add weight to the average.

 

As the saying goes, there are Lies... and Statistics.

 

That's a 43% increase in my per game cost. Waddell can spin it however he likes, that is the actual number for the increase. Yeah, I'm really happy about this. 

 

You are "happy," Waddell is "thankful" and Sara Daniel (VP of ticket sales) is "excited."  Maybe we should all go out and sing kumbaya.  

 

Or maybe I should just find the sarcasm icon.  :)

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So where does Mr. Waddell get by saying, and I quote: "As you may be aware, the Hurricanes rank in the bottom five in the NHL ..."

Or he could have just said this Edited by super_dave_1

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SuperDave - best comment yet. Ticket rep told me today that "business side" of franchise had been neglected for 5-10 years and these increases are necessary to make team competitive. I replied, "but in what city." crowds of 6-8 thousand seem like they will not assure the franchise staying in Raleigh. Rep said there was no consideration at all being given to relocation. Canes are here for the long term. OK.

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Well I doubt this earns me any friends (luckily I’m not taking applications for them right now) but here’s my opinion on what’s happening.

What has happened that would justify a 43% price increase? 

I think the obvious answer here is nothing.

In my opinion the Hurricanes organization is trying to make it more appealing to full STH and less appealing (and closer to what other teams do) for smaller ticket plans. It will also allow the Canes to get a fair market value for what they have here in Raleigh.

 

Are there any teams offering what the Canes did/do at the same or less price for half or partial seasons?

·         Unused Ticket Exchange?

·         Vouchers (half only)?

·         Opportunity to give guidance where you want to sit?

 

Out of Toronto, Columbus, Arizona, Edmonton and Buffalo I would think only maybe Arizona or Columbus even come close but I still think Canes are cheaper. In Edmonton and Buffalo you have to pay just to be on a season ticket waiting list.

 

I think the biggest mistake the Canes have made over the years is treating all the STH’s the same as far as benefits. I’ve bought single tickets (using the 20 different discounts the Canes offer each year), 12 game, 26 game and full season tickets over the last 7 years. The benefits should be based on the commitment (money spent) from the purchaser. I don’t see how someone spending $645 on a full season in the upper deck should get the same benefits as someone spending $2064 in the lower level. It’s a completely different level of commitment financially. I think the Canes have started that approach and went with ticket # commitment instead of overall $ amount.

My questions now are:

·         Is there a team that offers a lower cost and more benefits for 2015-2016 than the Canes?

·         Are all season ticket holders mad or just 26 and 12 game plan holders?

·         Will any partial plan holders join up with others to do a full season and split the tickets/benefits? (This is my personal plan)

 

Good luck to those that are unhappy. I don’t see the Canes changing packages at this point but they have been flexible in the past.

 

On a side note, I did two full seasons just buying them with the various discounts/ Craigslist and I was able to pay less than a full STH price. It just required a ton of work but I guess it’s all what you put into it…

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