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PK likes our core and thinks we should be playing for another Cup soon...I don't think any deals will be made until the Cup is won. Isn't there easentially a gentleman's agreement that no trades are made during the playoffs?

I'm not sure.  But you are right about PK.  These 2nd half surges keep making it look like the team might make it with just a few tweaks the next season.

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PK likes our core and thinks we should be playing for another Cup soon...I don't think any deals will be made until the Cup is won. Isn't there easentially a gentleman's agreement that no trades are made during the playoffs?

 

I think it goes beyond that . . . There hasn't been an NHL trade since the trade deadline. I can see some practical reasons why a team might not want to deal after the trade deadline. Playoff candidates wouldn't want to deal, thereby limiting your pool of trade partners. But once most teams are eliminated, seems like it's the gentleman's agreement that postpones trades restarting.

Edited by LakeLivin

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I don't thing PK has any illusions we are going to get better doing the same things we have done in the past.  I also don't think he has any illusions we are going to be a contender in the short term.

 

He hired Francis and stood shoulder to shoulder in that press conference and in his own sandpaper way of talking told the fans to be patient.

 

It's a process.  I like the direction so far and I'm sticking with the patient part as long as I see one step forward, and not 3 steps back as in the past.

 

I agree with this^

 

I went ballistic when PK made the "fans need to be more patient" comment.  It seemed at the time that PK was fine with the core and direction the team was going.  Looking back, I think he was trying to be as nice as he could towards his friend, JR until the season was over and he could make the changes that needed to be made.  He could have phrased things much better, but I don't think he has any thoughts of this being a quick fix.

 

We have a new GM who at least hasn't made any bad or knee jerk moves while some contracts are running out.  We have a coach that doesn't act like a cardboard cutout behind the bench.  We have some young players that are coming along.  We have a really good chance at drafting a franchise type player.  Even though the team finished lower in the standings this year than last, I feel better about where things are going.

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Boy is this a crappy morning. !st, go to TSN to read latest speculations on E Staal, and get prompt Not allowed in geog region!! Snobs!! Then come to our site, and can't get the Crouse tape to play!!

 

What gives ???

 

Wife's retort when I complain "it's just a computer"!! Think I'll go pound sand!!

Edited by KJUNKANE

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Boy is this a crappy morning. !st, go to TSN to read latest speculations on E Staal, and get prompt Not allowed in geog region!! Snobs!! Then come to our site, and can't get the Crouse tape to play!!

 

What gives ???

 

Wife's retort when I complain "it's just a computer"!! Think I'll go pound sand!!

 

I get the same message on TSN. Geez share the knowledge TSN its a international world now. 

 

Kjun I posted the TSN speculation HERE

 

It indicates Francis and Staal's agent will get together to talk contract extension. If an agreement not reached Staal could be on the trade block.

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I still contend that all moves now are best done in the context of yes or no on E Staal beyond this year, especially if trades for picks are being considered.

 

What I can't really get a clear read on this board is this: if E. Staal would agree to a trade for a decent return now, would you do it? If E. Staal would extend for $6 mill/year for 4 years and no NTC would you extend him? (or what deal would you extend him).

 

Would you just let him finish this year or get to the deadline before dealing with it?

 

I think RF has to come to a place (maybe already there) where he knows what the E. Staal plan is as soon as possible because it affects other things. Personally if E is not in the plans, this is a full rebuild.

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I think it's going to be tough to reach an agreement before at least a decent chunk of next season.

  • Canes: We'd love to extend you but your contribution the last 2 years is way down and you're not getting any younger. Because of that we can't commit to anything especially long term or anywhere near the $ compared to your last contract. Oh, and the NTC has got to go.
  • E: I was coming off major knee surgery 2 seasons ago and last year I played with a broken foot. My numbers outside of that are "franchise worthy". Now that I"m going into a season fully healthy you'll see me revert to my old form.  I know you can't pay me like before, but I'm only 30 years old and there's a lot left in the tank. I'd like to stay and I'll take a slight cut, but please don't insult me.  If you don't appreciate what I can bring, I'm sure someone else will.

Me fear is that the only way to bring those two perspectives close enough for a deal is by seeing how E plays next season.

Edited by LakeLivin

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It is interesting this meeting between Ric Curran, Staal, and Francis is happening just before the draft.

 

In other news, TSN has Todd Nelson connected to the Checkers as a potential coach.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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The Staal situation is sure getting a lot of ink. Almost all are indicating Francis needs to sign an extension soon or put E on the block by draft day. Bob Wage is the only blogger I have read saying we can afford to wait.

 

I still stick by what I posted the other day. I don't think we have to sign E before the draft but I think Francis needs to know if they are close to mutual terms before the draft. No matter what side of the Staal fence you are on, building a team around Staal and building a team without Staal bring two very different challenges. I think the kind of draft picks, trades, signings all depend on knowing if Staal is likely to stay.

 

Only how I feel. The realty of the situation might be different.

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Since GMRF is probably going to take the best player available, I don't think it's absolutely necessary that a decision be made before the draft, but it would be great to be able to garner additional picks in this draft rather than wait until next season's draft IF they realize it isn't going to happen.  It is absolutely critical that a decision has been made by the trade deadline.  What would kill this organization is to think they could do a deal, hang onto EStaal, and not be able to work a deal next summer.

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IMHO, the apparent complexity of the Staal situation once again underscores how very fortunate this team and organization are to have placed the reins (or wheel if you will) of this ship in the hands of our GM, Ron Francis!! What better person can you imagine, more qualified to negotiate these troubled waters, than an ex-player/ex-captain, whose seen all of it from the inside?

Can anyone imagine how JR would have negotiated this deal? Probably would have caved, and taken the easy way out, meaning a salary increase and continuance of the NTC!!

Certainly there may be future situations and interactions with his peers where inexperience will be problematic, but at this time, in this situation, I have great confidence in our leader.

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I think the Canes really need to know now what the plan is for Staal. 

 

How can you risk losing him for nothing by letting him play out the season.

 

And what does little brother think?

Edited by coastal_caniac

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An Eric Staal at 6 to 6.5m for 4 years though? I would do it if I were GM. Maybe he likes it here. Let's be hinest. True 1st line centers are not easy to come by via Free Agency.....

Edited by bluedevil58

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I'm wondering if we'll see a bridge deal.  Maybe another year at $7m to see what he's got going into next season 100% healthy?  I say that because we can't deal him now if he doesn't approve it. His stock with us is down right now; if he wants to stay, a good start to next season would greatly help his negotiating position, so that might influence his veto decisions.

 

Worse comes to worse, I could see him being dealt to a contending team hurt by injuries or surprise contender mid season (kind of like Florida this past season). Wouldn't need to be right at the trade deadline.  Seems he'd have a hard time vetoing something like that since it would likely be to a team challenging for a playoff spot and it would only be for a couple of months if he didn't like the long term view.

 

This is a tricky one. It might well give us some good insight on RF as GM here.

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I think it's going to be tough to reach an agreement before at least a decent chunk of next season.

  • Canes: We'd love to extend you but your contribution the last 2 years is way down and you're not getting any younger. Because of that we can't commit to anything especially long term or anywhere near the $ compared to your last contract. Oh, and the NTC has got to go.
  • E: I was coming off major knee surgery 2 seasons ago and last year I played with a broken foot. My numbers outside of that are "franchise worthy". Now that I"m going into a season fully healthy you'll see me revert to my old form.  I know you can't pay me like before, but I'm only 30 years old and there's a lot left in the tank. I'd like to stay and I'll take a slight cut, but please don't insult me.  If you don't appreciate what I can bring, I'm sure someone else will.

Me fear is that the only way to bring those two perspectives close enough for a deal is by seeing how E plays next season.

 

edit: additions to the above

  • Canes: and with you as our leader we haven't made the playoffs since 2009
  • E: and I still led the team in scoring.

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On a emotional level,  Eric and Francis need to be on the same page   before draft.... No, waiting game, I think Ronnie and Peters make a tough decision at or around  draft or pre-season, ....Is Eric the guy to help get us back to playoffs, or do you make a deal... Thats why they get paid the big bucks..

Edited by dinz

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 P. Lav. P.Mo. K.Mull. all fired (but all in the playoffs this year) for under performing team. Since then players have come and gone with same ole results and excuses. The one common remaining piece through it all is the team captain. So from the business side of things, would you honestly feel good keeping this player???  Somewhere winning seasons and playoff hockey has to be a consideration for a very tired fan base.. 

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 P. Lav. P.Mo. K.Mull. all fired (but all in the playoffs this year) for under performing team. Since then players have come and gone with same ole results and excuses. The one common remaining piece through it all is the team captain. So from the business side of things, would you honestly feel good keeping this player???  Somewhere winning seasons and playoff hockey has to be a consideration for a very tired fan base.. 

 

Common theme is the captain? How about the common theme is a reckless GM (JR) and a crazy, penny pinching owner. Those two are far more impactful on whether or not a team makes the playoffs vs one player.

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Lake, you raise a good point about a "bridge contract", but is that even allowed for a player his age? I've only seen it used for younger players after their ELC, so I'm just wondering if their might be some type of stipulation against it's use in more seasoned vets?

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Lake, you raise a good point about a "bridge contract", but is that even allowed for a player his age? I've only seen it used for younger players after their ELC, so I'm just wondering if their might be some type of stipulation against it's use in more seasoned vets?

 

I'm pretty sure there's nothing special about a bridge contract.  That's just a name given to a 1 or 2 year contract that allows a team and a player to continue their relationship "short term" while moving a decision as to a longer term deal down the road.  NHL veterans get 1 year deals all the time. I imagine you don't see it much with NHL "stars" that still have tread on the tire because the player is looking to protect himself with term while the team is looking to lock up a valuable asset. 

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The "bridge" contract is an interesting approach but if I'm Staal I'm not sure it would be attractive. I'm thinking Staal will want a contract that either allows him to retire as a Cane or move on now while he is still able to establish himself with another team.

 

From what I'm reading it appears both Staal and Francis have indicated they would like to work out a deal. I'm not sure they will be able to. This is probable the most important negotiation thus far for Francis. The future direction of the Canes depends on the outcome.

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Francis, "Eric, we want you to remain our captain, but with things the way they are, we really need the deal to be about $6mil a year for 5 years. How do you feel about that?"

EStaal, "I'm not going to sign for less money than the guy that stands around, picking his nose all night"

Francis "I do see that point. How about 5 years at $7,000,001 a year? More than Old Nosepicker"

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After the last 2 years I'm not sure I'd do 5 years at $7m per. Shorter term ok or less $ ok. Don't get me wrong, I'm open to the notion that E's production has been impacted by injuries and that he may return to his previous production.  And I think we may tend to undervalue him here, given how bad things have been in general.  But I'd want to see some evidence of his "return to form" before inking a deal that long. Especially since he'll be 35 when the deal winds down.  If there is a longer term deal, no NTC (out of respect maybe give him the option to veto 6-8 teams?). And I'd make it front end loaded so it would be easier to move him later on if we needed to.  With our youth movement, I just can't see us embedding E to the franchise in concrete until he's 35 without knowing if he's on a permanent trajectory downward or if his recent decline was in large part a blip due to injuries. That's what I think will make it hard for the two sides to come to an agreement.

Edited by LakeLivin

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After the last 2 years I'm not sure I'd do 5 years at $7m per. Shorter term ok or less $ ok. Don't get me wrong, I'm open to the notion that E's production has been impacted by injuries and that he may return to his previous production.  And I think we may tend to undervalue him here, given how bad things have been in general.  But I'd want to see some evidence of his "return to form" before inking a deal that long. Especially since he'll be 35 when the deal winds down.  If there is a longer term deal, no NTC (out of respect maybe give him the option to veto 6-8 teams?). And I'd make it front end loaded so it would be easier to move him later on if we needed to.  With our youth movement, I just can't see us embedding E to the franchise in concrete until he's 35 without knowing if he's on a permanent trajectory downward or if his recent decline was in large part a blip due to injuries. That's what I think will make it hard for the two sides to come to an agreement.

This is what I was going to say, so thanks for saving me the effort.

I'm for a full rebuild, although I may be in the minority. Signing players like E. Staal, Ward, etc. might make us more competitive in the near future (then again maybe not), but I don't see this team being a serious contender for a few years. I don't think guys like E. Staal, Ward, Hainsey, and any other older players will be worth what they might get by that time.

Even with those guys signed I see us drafting in the #7 to #12 (or lower) slot for a few years. Without those guys signed we may be even closer to the bottom of the league (maybe not) and that may be hard to swallow, but then I would hope for/expect a big upswing that is there for the long-term instead of a few fleeting, possibly decent seasons. We would also be in a very good position financially.

I'm looking for a real youth movement, change of culture, and something built for the long-term, but I understand if others feel differently due to our years of futility and the impatience that it fosters.

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