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2015 Off-Season talk

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I think the one factor in re-signing Cam or Eric that maybe has been overlooked on these boards is what is their worth to some other team if they play out their contracts. If Eric rebounds and has a great year this year, some other team might be willing to pay $7 million or more per year for medium term. If he has another 51 point season, I'm not sure what he could fetch, but I'm guessing at his age, maybe 3 years at $4 to $5 million. So whatever RF is offering to extend Eric, the captain is taking a risk to play out this season and see what shakes out.

Cam is another story. If he plays out his contract here, and in front of the defense we are going to have next year, I could see him getting about the same contract somewhere else that we gave Dobby last year. Probably 2 years on a make good salary, and having to compete for a starting job for a franchise he did not carry to the Stanley Cup. If Lack beats him out, then he's probably looking at 1 year somewhere to try to prove he can still play at a high level.

I would like to see both of these guys back, but at a reasonable cost that recognizes that both of them have been overpaid for their production for most of the term of their expiring contracts.

I don't think either of these guys are oblivious to what the market may be for their services outside Carolina.

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Very good overall discussion on E and Ward's situation IMHO.

 

Very good takes also on the different positions they are in.

 

E. is still in the driver's seat if he wants to play it that way, but Ward, maybe not so much.

 

JR clealry overpaid both of these guys based on their eventual performance over their contracts. But I can sort of see the logic back then when we had a cup and E had put up a 100 point season, Cam had the Con Smythe, and players don't always want to stay in small markets. I do think he might have shaved a million a year off each deal, but the kicker to me (as I've gone on about) is handing them both NTC's in their early 20's. I just can't beleive with all that essentially guaranteed money on the table, and term, that he had to add the NTC's. I have no inside knowledge, just gut feeling.

 

The NTC gives the player tremendous leverage over the team, especially as the contract expires. Right now, if we either did not want to keep E on board, or if, like Sekera, E decides, "Hey, I like Raleigh, but if you're going to low ball me, I don't like it that much", and he won't extend at what we think is reasonable, we just trade him. But due to the NTC he just has to wait out one year, refuse all trades (while making $9 million for his troubles) and we are left Whitney'ed but much worse. I don't know if it was true, but E was rumored to bring Kessel, Kadri and what was then a mid first round pick last year. I know, I know, many want no part of Kessel, but I'm just showing the return we miss if he just strings this out to the end.

 

I'm not saying we let this force us into a bad deal. E. needs a signficant pay cut and at least a waived NTC to stay in my book. But if he isn't going for that, we should really consider not waiting until the trade deadline when we are deserate as the clock ticks down, but E is could take it or leave it. This is why ideally this gets worked out one way or the other sooner than later.

 

Ward though...Ward had to be humbled by the lack of interest in him at various points in his recent career. He had a really bad run for a couple of years while pulling down serious change, and unlike E really, Ward CAN be benched and lose his slot to Lack, as Legend pointed out. The team thus has significantly more leverage w/ Ward it would seem. Though technically Ward could also just wait it out and leave us empty.

 

I agree that Ward looked really good almost all year after October too. If I had to predict, I would think Ward has a good year this year (though the point made about playing behind the defense we have right now is a good one) if all else is equal. I doubt Ward is ready to be a back up after the better year last year. So, while he would probably take a pay cut, I doubt he plays for typical back up money either.

 

I think we have more time to figure things out w/ Ward and in the end it will problaby depend on a few things, but where the Canes are on "American" Thanksgiving is bound to be one of them. If we are somehow in the playoff hunt, and Cam is playing well, then probably just roll on. If we are out of it, then Cam will have to either take a major paycut and shorter term and no NTC, or we will have to deal him. But if Lack is going to be the #1 at that point, and we're out of it, Cam needs to play ball and allow a trade, or he can be relagated to back up, and watch his future value drop.

 

We cannot do that w E.

 

Still, Cam will want to be traded to a team he can start for, so the NTC could raise it's ugly head again.

 

Thanks JR.

 

Anyway, I really hope and think Francis will get it worked out.

Edited by remkin

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Well, with the brief respite we enjoyed turning our collective thoughts to our future in the draftees, we now return to the negative vibes we've wallowed in thru this discussion of the fates of our one-time "core players", Eric and Cam!!

It's exceedingly difficult to be objective here, and if that isn't apparent, just look back and feel the angst expressed in some of these discussions, wherein a few suggestions would propose everything up to emasculation? I get it, our "tip of the iceberg", on ice vision of Eric Staal is not pretty. To us, he often seems uninvolved and emotionless. He skates lackidasically and often is seen woefully behind the play. Thus we frequently question his captaincy. No matter that Mike Maniscalco and John Forsland alike assure us that his behind the scenes persona is vastly different and the man passionately wants to win.

As to our goalie, I am right there with all and frequently cringe at his "soft goals". Yet whether it be a rededication of himself or the new goalie coach, something clicked and the latter half of this past season, he was looking somewhat better. Now whether the upward trend continues, or he wilts under the pressure that our new goalie, Eddie Lack, brings will be interesting to observe.

As to the discussion at hand,I think that both players have displayed and deserve to have their salaries cut back, but in an honorable manner. Though that last statement may engender criticism, the most admirable trait that Jim Rutherford built this franchise upon has always seemed to me to be an atmosphere of respect and honesty. Now possibly I've been naïve and bought into the hype, but I've always heard that his mantra was to bring quality players into this system.

Further, I think it imperative to leave both players with their dignity intact, no matter how firm the stance. I've made the point before, but no one has commented upon it, so I'll briefly repeat, that we are fortunate to have Ron Francis as the negotiator in these affairs with these 2 men whom he knows intimately. Not only has he experienced personally their pains, but in the case of Eric, he mentored him. He's been in the locker room with them so knows the behind the scene secrets.

As far as salaries and NTC's, I would expect that scaling back for both is to be expected, for Eric, $7 to 7 1/2 mil and for Ward, $3,75 mil. NTC's, I would expect not to go cold turkey, but some kind of limited agreement, or possibly none in the latter part of the contract.

Edited by KJUNKANE

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Good points Kjun. Peters was almost gushing over EStaal at the year end presser, and he doesn't seem like an easily impressed man or one to hand out praise like candy. There must be more to E that the tip of the iceberg. You are probably right on the numbers for an extension if it happens.

On Ward, I still favor letting this year play out and see where it goes. Lack may wrestle the starting job away from Ward, and this team can't afford to pay a starting goalie salary to Cam to be a backup.

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We seem to have a bit of fear creeping into our discussions. Fear that player X will sign with another team and turn around his game and return to close to their former excellence. Fear that the new contract offer will somehow offend or insult the player. We all get emotionally tied to certain players, just human nature. But the cold hard facts are that bit all comes down to business. Every team has had players leave and either continue their  level of play long after it was thought they were at the end of their career, or turn the corner and reinvigorate their play to return to former level. It happens, need to get over it. As far as money goes, there are a number of players whose stats a similar to player X . Those players have set the level for your players contract. Not insulted , not offended. Just reality. Do not let the emotion of " he's a good guy " , "must be good behind the scenes" . " he has played for us for so long " lead to paying too much. Some one whose numbers are declining over a number of seasons. cut them loose, take the beating and move on. As far as the NTC , no one under age 32 or 33 and for someone who has shown consistency in play and a true interest in the team and the community. Basically someone who wants to stay involved.

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Yea, Nastracil reupped! And, winger58, if your discussion was in response to mine, please don't misunderstand my comments. It is not with "fear" of resurgence or sentimentality that I ranted on in my comments, just nearly my reflection that if honor and respect are trademarks of this franchise, as established early on by JR, I believe they should be maintained in the painful process of dealing with players we once referred to as our "core". I think that being straightforward and above board with players, during negotiations, and forward, could set us apart from some of the "underhanded" things we hear are engaged in by others.

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Yeah, I really can't see Eric taking less than 6.5 to 7 mil.

 

 

$6mil/3year max, or don't let the Zamboni hit you where the good Lord split you.

Well if we base E's new contract off Semin's, with each of Semin's goals this past season being worth $1,166,666. Eric's new deal should be...$26,833,333/year! :sarcasmalert:

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Eric is worth 7mil a year. Most NHL forwards that score a guaranteed 60 points or more per season get that price easily.  His production has dropped a lot since his first few seasons but he is still leading the team in scoring every year. I believe he will have some big years ahead of him where he is putting up 80points.  He's not done, Carolina just needs to be rejuvenated and I think Eric does too.  We need to continue to make moves and change things up so this can happen.    

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Ringing in...

 

Eric is not worth over $5 mil a year. If he doesn't take that, let him walk!

 

Other than that, I think the best action we could take would be pull all the letters "C" and "A", and make the player earn them. This bull about giving it to one person to wear is crazy. It should be dealt out every year to the player willing to earn it (on the ice, in the locker room and outside the rink).  I don't think E. Staal is captain material. I don't think J.Staal should have been handed to him when he got here. Only the player willing to sacrifice and work hard deserves it.

 

(IMHO)....:)

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On a different note, since they both are being bought out, what are the opinions on picking up Richards or Parenteau? Richards is gritty and would be an excellent 3rd liner to me. Parenteau, not sure about.

 

Thoughts?

Edited by Caniac5

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Killing time at a doctor's appointment with my client.......

Read on The Hockey Chat (Twitter) that the Sharks have contacted the Canes about Ward, but they also called about Howard and Reimer. It is said to be a "kicking the tires" sort of thing, and that the Sharks may sign Ramo and be comfortable with that.

I'm sure nobody remembers but I said awhile ago that IMO, the Sharks would be a good fit for Ward even when Niemi was there.

It was also said the that the Red Wings may have some interest in Skinner.

I don't put anything into these rumors but I still think Ward is a good fit for San Jose.

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Big question on Ward is what would the return be?

 

If we could get a nice return, we would still have to go find a back up and be ready to make Lack the #1.

 

The upside would be the return and probably some salary to use in UFA, and not having to worry about getting Whitney'd. The downside is that Ward/Lack is probably going to be a pretty good combo this year. I know expectations are super low this year, but w/ good goaltending and some luck on health, it may not have to be a year to write off.

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Big question on Ward is what would the return be?

 

If we could get a nice return, we would still have to go find a back up and be ready to make Lack the #1.

 

The upside would be the return and probably some salary to use in UFA, and not having to worry about getting Whitney'd. The downside is that Ward/Lack is probably going to be a pretty good combo this year. I know expectations are super low this year, but w/ good goaltending and some luck on health, it may not have to be a year to write off.

 

I think Ward and Lack will be a good combination as well but, it also depends on the defense. A goalie is only responsible for the first shot, any rebounds are on the defense. We need to bolster that area as well.

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I think Ward and Lack will be a good combination as well but, it also depends on the defense. A goalie is only responsible for the first shot, any rebounds are on the defense. We need to bolster that area as well.

 

I'm with you there. It seems like some think we are done on defense and we may well be, but while it is easy to get almost goosebumps excitement about our D in a couple of years, this year not so much.

 

If we are done, Hanifin will be an 18 year old, JML and Wiz known more as offensive D men, Murphy? who knows? Jordan? A nice #6 guy, Hainsey? solid, but really middle pair, then of course Faulk.

 

If we are keeping our offense in tact, there is always the possibility that Staal squared and especially Skinner have nice bouncebacks and Lindholm and Rask go up a level, and Nesty too, it might not be as awful as it was last year.

 

But without more moves on D? I guess I'm just having more trouble envisioning it.

 

I'd like to see a UFA pick up on D, at least an after the flurry value type guy.

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On a different note, since they both are being bought out, what are the opinions on picking up Richards or Parenteau? Richards is gritty and would be an excellent 3rd liner to me. Parenteau, not sure about.

 

Thoughts?

 

I think I would stay away from Richards until the dust settles. More on Richards in the Buyout topic.

Breach of contract, you don't see that every day.

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RF already said that he is still looking to improve our defense even after our recent moves so we may not be done. I anticipate us adding at least one more defenseman through free-agency or trade.

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RF already said that he is still looking to improve our defense even after our recent moves so we may not be done. I anticipate us adding at least one more defenseman through free-agency or trade.

 

Someone mentioned to me that Fleury might make the jump this year but he is still a young player. Would he be our 7th? And, if Hanifin decides to go pro, which I am doubting, he probably would be in the minors for at least year.

 

With these thoughts, we need to move a defenseman, or two, in order to beef-up our defense lines.

Edited by Caniac5

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Wiz seems genuine in his anticipation to join the Canes

 

Wisniewski says there’s ‘no better place for me’ than with Canes by Chip Alexander N&O

 

 

I especially like the part about him saying he likes working with young players.  Maybe Fleury or even Hanifin are part of this year plan. More likely Fleury IMO but you never know.

 

Wisniewski said he relished that big brother/mentor role, saying he tried to be the same for Ryan Murray, a former first-round pick by the Blue Jackets.

 
 

 

I agree with those posting we need to add one more D to the blue-line. Make it an experienced, top pair. left handed shot please :D

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Wiz seems genuine in his anticipation to join the Canes

 

Wisniewski says there’s ‘no better place for me’ than with Canes by Chip Alexander N&O

 

 

I especially like the part about him saying he likes working with young players.  Maybe Fleury or even Hanifin are part of this year plan. More likely Fleury IMO but you never know.

 

 

 

I agree with those posting we need to add one more D to the blue-line. Make it an experienced, top pair. left handed shot please :D

I keep going back to RF's comment about finding someone to play with Faulk as a top priority. I don't think Wisniewski is that guy as both are right-handed and it remains to be seen if Wisniewski can find his game again. I see him pairing with Hainsey who is a lefty. Faulk and Wisniewski will likely also be on different PP units.

Hopefully something is in the works to bring in a quality, and as you said, left-handed d-man.

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If GMRF comes though on a guy who can be thought of as a top pair guy w/out busting out laughing, then it Is clear that while we are building for the future, we're not just completely Buffaloing this year, but giving the current guys at least a shot.

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Just getting caught up, and wanted to jump in here on someone's earlier suggestion that we might want to take a look at 2 buyouts, specifically Richards and Parenteau. I vote to stay away from them as far as we can, although it would be tempting to give them a 2nd shot(or 3rd or 4th whatever the case), hoping they regain some semblance of their respective past glories. Reading thru various comments on both, a common thread to each is an emphasis on "slowing down".

If we take RF and Peters' statements on how they want to remake this team, they are poignant in stating that they desire "speed". As tempting as picking up "buyouts" for peanuts may be, at this point, I don't think that either RF or Peters will compromise that goal.

Oh, and rem, in case you couldn't sense it from my earlier post on Nesty, I too was overjoyed. I'll never forget that when he was recovering from an injury, they had him coming around to hand out pizza to fans. Met and conversed with him awhile at the east STH gate that night. Seemed really happy to be here!!

Edited by KJUNKANE

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Just looking at who we have in the system for D-men, I see I need to study some of these guys.

 

Robertson, just finished his 4th year at Brown and played in 1 game with the Checkers.

Slavin, he seems to have size and is a lefty. 

Wesley, he's bigger than his dad but not too impressed with is stats.

 

Anyway, we have some big guys but other than McKeown, just a few seem like great prospects....to me!

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