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2015 Off-Season talk

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6m a year for Staal seems reasonable.

 

4.5m/year for Ward.

 

Anything more and both can take a hike.  If Staal has some sort of career year this coming season then we should not resign him because that shows what is work ethic actually is like.

 

bd- so you put all of Staals's last two off seasons on lack of work ethic?  No accounting for the possibility that coming off a major knee injury and (so we're told) playing on a broken foot for a month might have played a role? 

 

I'm not saying those were the sole reasons for Es down last 2 years. I don't know. Which, I guess, is my point. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I am in agreement that to retain E he'd have to come way down from his current salary. But I see Ward as more likely doing that. Seems like he's more humble (less proud?) and his family is tied to Raleigh.         

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Doesn't sound like anybody has any hope for Altshuller or Nedeljkovich, or they just forgot about them.

 

I hate to say it but I kind of wrote off Altshuller last summer when he got shelled for the second year in a row in the Traverse City tourney.  Still have hopes for Needle, but can't see him contributing till several years out. 

Edited by LakeLivin

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shelf: good insights about Cam.  Thanks.

 

If RF can negotiate more reasonable contracts for E. and Cam, I'm all in.  I don't think those guys would ever Semin us.

Oh my god. If I ever hire people again (not bloody likely) I'm using that. "Stop your Semining and DO something!!!" 

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bd- so you put all of Staals's last two off seasons on lack of work ethic?  No accounting for the possibility that coming off a major knee injury and (so we're told) playing on a broken foot for a month might have played a role? 

 

I'm not saying those were the sole reasons for Es down last 2 years. I don't know. Which, I guess, is my point. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I am in agreement that to retain E he'd have to come way down from his current salary. But I see Ward as more likely doing that. Seems like he's more humble (less proud?) and his family is tied to Raleigh.         

 

 

I don't know  Lake.  When I see Staal I see someone who was blessed with size and skill and over the past 6-7 year I have seen him coasting out there more times than not.  I guess it comes down to Brindy just setting the bar too high.  All I am saying is if Staal does have some sort of break through season outside of the 70-75 point / season former self.  Then I would be questioning his worth ethic as I have the past 7 years.  At the same time I know how hard it is to actually get a 1st line center / winger these days via free agency.  Part of me feels that we should just move on from Eric and acquire what we can for him at the trade dead line if we are out of the hunt which I am 100% certain will be the case come close to this time next year.

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I do agree, the extension at a lower $ value with immediate loss of NTC is a great idea... I would do it in a heartbeat.  However does anyone think he would take something like Jordan money, because anything like Semin level is overpayment imho.

What he would take is less important to me than putting an offer on the table at this stage. By making clear we will re-sign him with no NTC and at a number that gives us space, we force him to decide if he wants to try the UFA market next year or would accept incentives to stay here. We'd basically be saying, hey, as long as you use that extra gear we all know you have, you've got a job here - but we're no longer paying for what we're not getting.

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So apparently there's a report out saying Jim Rutherford is out as GM after only one season.  They'll ask him to resign to make their front office seem less idiotic than firing two GM's in as many seasons.

 

Well, he did flip his lid with a Pens reporter, telling him to "sell ice cream" or something weird like that, after a few choice words.  http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/are-pittsburgh-penguins-in-meltdown-or-is-ice-cream-bowl-half-full-141538634.html

 

 

Apparently, the press in Pittsburgh isn't intimidated like they are here by PK.

Edited by wxray1

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Well, he did flip his lid with a Pens reporter, telling him to "sell ice cream" or something weird like that, after a few choice words.  http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/are-pittsburgh-penguins-in-meltdown-or-is-ice-cream-bowl-half-full-141538634.html

 

 

Apparently, the press in Pittsburgh isn't intimidated like they are here by PK.

Wow looks like the Puck Daddy wants to be "a (expletive) jerk" too!  :lol:

 

JR - I mean, what can I say that hasn't been said already? He was a really dedicated GM here - just not a great one. That Cup belongs to Roddy, Cam, Eric - and a bunch of other guys we should have kept. But - in the words of John Belushi - nooooooo-ooooohhhh!!!

 

Yeah, small market, yeah, budget-conscious owner - but clearing out all that talent to pay THESE salaries and commit to the players getting them for a decade?

 

I bid the guy no ill will and wish him a happy retirement. Or better yet, the GM job for the Leafs.

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Well, he did flip his lid with a Pens reporter, telling him to "sell ice cream" or something weird like that, after a few choice words.  http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/are-pittsburgh-penguins-in-meltdown-or-is-ice-cream-bowl-half-full-141538634.html

 

 

Apparently, the press in Pittsburgh isn't intimidated like they are here by PK.

Wait - it just dawned on me what JR meant with the "go sell ice cream" comment. They used to call people who served ice cream floats "soda jerks" - in a time only a man of JR's age can still recall. Still working on how he expected the writer to make that connection, given that he was called an "(expletive) jerk." Maybe Jimmy likes (expletive) jimmies on his root beer floats??

Edited by top-shelf-1

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In the article comments one poster explains that Rossi's family owns several ice cream stores.

Nice spot, legend. Just read the piece (thanks for the post-al coastal) and Rossi pulls no punches. That could have been Luke - er, no it couldn't.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I just read the season review for the Checkers. Trouble scoring goals. Played well in one goal games. I wouldn't look to Charlotte anytime soon for help boosting our scoring.

 

We need to make some moves.

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So apparently there's a report out saying Jim Rutherford is out as GM after only one season.  They'll ask him to resign to make their front office seem less idiotic than firing two GM's in as many seasons.

Considering how they fleeced us for Jordan Staal (who would have come here for no compensation in one more year) and Jussi Jokinnen (give us a bag of pucks and we'll pay 1/3 of his salary for a year and a half), who the heck did Pittsburgh think they were hiring? JR inherited salary cap issues when he went to Pittsburgh, but how did managing a "budget" team for 20 years or whatever make him a guru on solving cap issues? As for him flipping his lid at a reporter, I heard on local talk radio that he had been difficult to deal with here if someone asked the wrong question. Since there is so little coverage of the Canes, I think the few locals covering the Canes kept this fact to themselves.

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Last year, a lot of people on this board with short memories wanted to dump Cam at all costs. At that point it would just have been a salary dump. I said then, and still say, Cam broke down because of one freak injury (cut with a skate) and more importantly, because post Stanley Cup, we rode him like a wet mule. Khudobin is the first decent backup we've had since the Cup. Did anyone notice what the Craps did the night Holtby was sick? They passed over Justin Peters and called up their minor league goalie.

I wanted Cam to stay last year and I still want him to stay (at a reasonable price). But if we are going to trade him, now is our opportunity to sell high. What he would bring in return, I have no idea, but at least we might not have to retain salary to move him. I vote 3 year extension, slight pay cut, no NTC, or at most a limited one where he could designate a few teams he would not accept a trade to.

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Why would anyone want to keep a 6 mil. goalie who was under performing??? and why would you not want to retain one if he decided to start playing like one??  Id like to see Cam and E get some kind of restructured contract and free up some cash to go out and find a player who can score the dang puck.... 

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Tampa Bay retools their defense and are now a consistent playoff team.

 

Islanders retools their defense and made the playoffs and will also be a consistent playofff team from here on out.

 

Anyone seeing a trend here?  Any team that has a respectable blue line almost always makes the playoffs with maybe the one exception this year being LA.  If we can trade Skinner for a solid young blue liner that is locked up long-term it could take us a long way in the right direction.

Edited by bluedevil58

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On Ward. Buy low sell high requires contrarian thinking and long term planning. Why would you not retain a goalie playing well? Because he is aging has a recent history of bad injury problems, currently is only under contract for one more year, and might bring a big return excaclyt because he is playing well.

 

Of course, there are always two sides to the equation. If he would re-sign at a lower rate w/ no NTC, he could always be traded later. This team is stronger next year with him than without him. This team has many needs, right now at least one common problem for teams is set: goalie. Moving Cam creates another possible hole. We don't know the return offered, so it becomes imposslble to even really weigh in unless and until an actual deal happens.

 

On the defense. Again, we have multiple issues. That's why we are picking #5. While statistically our goal scoring is problem #1, our defense minus Sekera is woeful on paper. Despite the scoring issues, the defense has to be job one. IF someone would part with a top line d man for Skinner, one has to look at that. It would also allow us to pick an elite forward in the draft.

 

If Francis moved Skinner for stud dman. We pick, say Marner. Then get two mid range UFA's: one scorer, one 3-4 dman. This could turn fast. IF we stay w/ Staal squared and Ward on restructured, no NTC deals, we would have:

 

Stud dman - Faulk

Hainsey - UFA

Murphy- JML

 

Staal, Staal, Marner, UFA, Lindholm, Rask, Gerbe, Nestrasil, Nash.

 

Now personally, I like the idea of one or two project forwards, JR specials on the cheap with history and a chance at redemption to slide up in the top 9.

 

Is Marner ready for next year? Do we buy out Semin? Scoring could still be an issue, but I do think Lindholm and Rask will elevate their games.

 

But on the defense, if we fix that now, then we have Fleury on the way probabably year after next and the core d would be Faulk-Fluery-Pick up for Skinner.

 

Most solid teams actually have 3 primo dman making around 4-6 million/year, and three other guys. So that would work.

 

 

 

Howevever, even better would be to just go UFA. Buy out Semin, restructure E and Ward, and go shopping primarily on d. Get at least two guys. But keep Skinner AND draft Marner. Now you have a servicable D until and after Fleury is ready (and maybe others) and you have scoring.

Edited by remkin

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Last year, a lot of people on this board with short memories wanted to dump Cam at all costs. At that point it would just have been a salary dump. I said then, and still say, Cam broke down because of one freak injury (cut with a skate) and more importantly, because post Stanley Cup, we rode him like a wet mule. Khudobin is the first decent backup we've had since the Cup. Did anyone notice what the Craps did the night Holtby was sick? They passed over Justin Peters and called up their minor league goalie.

I wanted Cam to stay last year and I still want him to stay (at a reasonable price). But if we are going to trade him, now is our opportunity to sell high. What he would bring in return, I have no idea, but at least we might not have to retain salary to move him. I vote 3 year extension, slight pay cut, no NTC, or at most a limited one where he could designate a few teams he would not accept a trade to.

Seconded. Cam has always had the fundamentals - you don't win a Cup without them.

 

I wrote at the beginning of the 06-07 season that Cam was seeking to make the hardest transition in pro sports, from backup goalie to number one. The way JR rode him over the next seven years, more than any other factor (including the injury), is why he broke down. Khudo may or may not reach #1 status here - but if it is going to happen, he must show that his game is equal to or better than Ward's, and that just hasn't happened on a consistent basis yet. If we extend Cam and Khudo gets tired of waiting for his chance, he can seek his fortune someplace else next year - although the best-case scenario, to me, is keeping this duo together. And if we make or even come close to making the playoffs next year, I think we can do that.

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On Ward. Buy low sell high requires contrarian thinking and long term planning. Why would you not retain a goalie playing well? Because he is aging has a recent history of bad injury problems, currently is only under contract for one more year, and might bring a big return excaclyt because he is playing well.

 

Of course, there are always two sides to the equation. If he would re-sign at a lower rate w/ no NTC, he could always be traded later. This team is stronger next year with him than without him. This team has many needs, right now at least one common problem for teams is set: goalie. Moving Cam creates another possible hole. We don't know the return offered, so it becomes imposslble to even really weigh in unless and until an actual deal happens.

 

On the defense. Again, we have multiple issues. That's why we are picking #5. While statistically our goal scoring is problem #1, our defense minus Sekera is woeful on paper. Despite the scoring issues, the defense has to be job one. IF someone would part with a top line d man for Skinner, one has to look at that. It would also allow us to pick an elite forward in the draft.

 

If Francis moved Skinner for stud dman. We pick, say Marner. Then get two mid range UFA's: one scorer, one 3-4 dman. This could turn fast. IF we stay w/ Staal squared and Ward on restructured, no NTC deals, we would have:

 

Stud dman - Faulk

Hainsey - UFA

Murphy- JML

 

Staal, Staal, Marner, UFA, Lindholm, Rask, Gerbe, Nestrasil, Nash.

 

Now personally, I like the idea of one or two project forwards, JR specials on the cheap with history and a chance at redemption to slide up in the top 9.

 

Is Marner ready for next year? Do we buy out Semin? Scoring could still be an issue, but I do think Lindholm and Rask will elevate their games.

 

But on the defense, if we fix that now, then we have Fleury on the way probabably year after next and the core d would be Faulk-Fluery-Pick up for Skinner.

 

Most solid teams actually have 3 primo dman making around 4-6 million/year, and three other guys. So that would work.

 

 

 

Howevever, even better would be to just go UFA. Buy out Semin, restructure E and Ward, and go shopping primarily on d. Get at least two guys. But keep Skinner AND draft Marner. Now you have a servicable D until and after Fleury is ready (and maybe others) and you have scoring.

Yup. Whether Marner is ready or not, the stated goal of the brain trust is NOT to put new draftees in the lineup for at least a year or two. McD or Eichel yes - but outside of generational talents, every statement coming out of the org indicates that our lack of depth isn't going away until we commit to developing players. Moreover, in the presser, BP (I think, but maybe RF) said (paraphrasing) "we wanted to see what our prospects could bring on D and now we know they're not quite ready, so we need to replace Sekera and Gleason with proven players."

 

This group, with a couple of seasoned D, has until Thanksgiving. Whether that's precisely what BP and RF will hold them to remains to be seen - but that's EXACTLY what I'M holding them to, regardless.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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A couple of thoughts on recent discussion.  I think on both Ward and EStaal, the issue is for RF to sit down with both and see if there are deals to be made at a reduced rate from what they have been getting.  They both need to be reduced about 25% in order to make the numbers work.  Also, no "to retirement" deals.  I'd hate to see anything signed that carries either past 35 years old.  If either or both aren't ready to do another reasonable deal this summer, then I think RF has to explore any trade options. 

 

This is not going to be a championship contending team next year with or without those guys.  At best, this is a group that could sneak into the back door of the playoffs.  I want to see RF swing for the fences.  No half measures.

 

mike-no-more-half-measures-breaking-bad_

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A couple of thoughts on recent discussion.  I think on both Ward and EStaal, the issue is for RF to sit down with both and see if there are deals to be made at a reduced rate from what they have been getting.  They both need to be reduced about 25% in order to make the numbers work.  Also, no "to retirement" deals.  I'd hate to see anything signed that carries either past 35 years old.  If either or both aren't ready to do another reasonable deal this summer, then I think RF has to explore any trade options. 

 

This is not going to be a championship contending team next year with or without those guys.  At best, this is a group that could sneak into the back door of the playoffs.  I want to see RF swing for the fences.  No half measures.

 

mike-no-more-half-measures-breaking-bad_

Agree 1000 percent.

 

Neither of these guys (nor Skinner) had a "bridge deal," which have become common practice in the Cap Era (for teams with GMs who have a clue, anyways). They went straight from their signing deals to mega-millions (somebody correct me if that's wrong - I'm going from memory here and I'm over 50, so there's no telling). When you give a kid that kind of money, working - even if your work is something you really love to do - takes a back seat to living. Large.

 

So since they skipped the bridge deal coming up, they're freakin' guaranteed a bridge between the too-big, too-soon long-term deal they got to carry them through their prime and any possibility of having of the privilege of closing out their careers with this franchise. With BP and RF at the helm, it's a franchise that is finally at least aspiring to have the stink of legitimacy about it, and tough negotiating lays the foundation for the level of accountability they intend to enforce. 

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Great thoughts, top-shelf, but I too am in the over 50(and really over 60 crowd), so what do I know. I just hope we both are seeing this in the spirit that RF/BP are intending, and that it does reflect their drive toward "accountability", for which JR with all his aptitude(or not), left the cupboard bare!!

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