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Rumors and Trade Deadline Talk

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I researched every draft for the last 15 years. I can't find a salary dump associated with a top 5 pick in that time.  If somebody else can find one I'd be interested.  I could have missed something.

 

Not saying it won't happen, or RF won't use the draft to give Semin a can to kick down the road, but that kind of move seems non-existent by current NHL standards.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I do wonder how much fire is behind some of the smoke we see.

 

I can see this deal easily from Toronto's point of view. Imagine having the 4th and 5th pick in this draft? Heck, maybe WE should be after their 4th pick. Let them take anyone off our roster (except Lindy and Faulk), and our second round pick, and one of our first rounders next year, and we pick 4 and 5.

 

It is even possible that Buffalo would give up Eichel for the 4 and the 5, though if I had those picks, don't think I'd do it.

 

Imagine adding two of Strome, Marner and Hanifin? Instant elite offense AND near instant elite Defense that will be here on entry and bridge deals for years. Or Marner and Crouse. A couple of ying and yangs.

 

Outside of Kessel's apparent conditioning issues and considering the lead weight that is Semin at this point, I still don't think the idea is totally nuts from our point of view, but getting both picks would be better.

 

Of course, in reality, as much fire as Kessel draws, we don't even have a guy to offer the other way that comes close to his effectiveness at what he does, and the closest guy has a NTC and no interest in being traded.

 

At the end of the day, despite the temptation (at least to me) to dump Semin and pick up undervalued pieces with instant upside, including a guy that would instantly be our top point producer, I continue to agree that this deal won't happen. (Despite sticking up for aspects of the deal, I have maintained I wouldn't do it).

Edited by remkin

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I can see this deal easily from Toronto's point of view. Imagine having the 4th and 5th pick in this draft? Heck, maybe WE should be after their 4th pick. Let them take anyone off our roster (except Lindy and Faulk), and our second round pick, and one of our first rounders next year, and we pick 4 and 5.

 

Right here is your answer.  If GMRF traded that pick away, Toronto would win the trade.  All of the arguments come back to this point.  Glad this is solved and over, never to be mentioned again.

Edited by super_dave_1

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Right here is your answer.  If GMRF traded that pick away, Toronto would win the trade.  All of the arguments come back to this point.  Glad this is solved and over, never to be mentioned again.

 

Yeah but they don't have a Semin contract. Kessel at least produces offense. Semin produces malaise. Still, I get your point. The thing has been beat to death. Baring further news, I will try to avoid this one, at least for awhile! :D

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Yeah but they don't have a Semin contract. Kessel at least produces offense. Semin produces malaise. Still, I get your point. The thing has been beat to death. Baring further news, I will try to avoid this one, at least for awhile! :D

 

They have a Phaneuf and a Kessel contract that they desperately want out of.  Both of these are long term pain.

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True but Semin....that is a special kind of nasty. At least Phaneuf and Kessel play hockey on the ice. Maybe Semin comes back and surprises us all. Then maybe later, monkeys will fly out of my....well, no I suppose at least the Semin thing has an outside chance it could happen.

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Eklund is again reporting the #5 pick and Semin to Toronto for Kessel and Kadri. GMRF - please do not do this!!! This really feels like a PK move to cut costs rather than improve the team. By all accounts, there are 5 players in this draft considered good enough to be a first overall selection in many years, and at #5 we are guaranteed one of them. Long-term this should be a no-brainer. Does anyone really believe this trade makes us better than a young stud asset we can develop and build around for a long time? I know Eklund's track record for accuracy is not good, but this seems to have popped up elsewhere as well. (Maybe planted by Toronto fans, at least I hope).

Does anyone think our last draft day trade of a high pick (plus our best defensive prospect and checking line center) improved the team? Please RF, do not repeat that history. Any reassurance that this is all BS would be appreciated.

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# NO TO  EKLUND!    This better just be a rumour, just say no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Eklund is again reporting the #5 pick and Semin to Toronto for Kessel and Kadri. GMRF - please do not do this!!! This really feels like a PK move to cut costs rather than improve the team. By all accounts, there are 5 players in this draft considered good enough to be a first overall selection in many years, and at #5 we are guaranteed one of them. Long-term this should be a no-brainer. Does anyone really believe this trade makes us better than a young stud asset we can develop and build around for a long time? I know Eklund's track record for accuracy is not good, but this seems to have popped up elsewhere as well. (Maybe planted by Toronto fans, at least I hope).

Does anyone think our last draft day trade of a high pick (plus our best defensive prospect and checking line center) improved the team? Please RF, do not repeat that history. Any reassurance that this is all BS would be appreciated.

 

On another site, they are saying that the deal may be Kessel, Kahdri and the #24 pick for #5 and Semin. That is two proven good players and a first round pick. I don't know how you don't do that if it is available. With a deep draft, #24 is still going to get us a good player, then you get a winger who is a first line player and a 2nd line center. If Toronto wants to do that for the #5, I think you take it. Let's be honest, this market may not be able to survive a full rebuild like others can...using our assets to improve for the the short term without a major long term sacrifice is something that management has to consider very strongly.

Edited by MinJaBen

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As bad as Semin was last year, I think it a much safer bet to keep him and the fifth pick. In the rare moments when he was engaged last year, his skills were as good as anyone's in the league. Mabye he will have a reawakening, and return to form. Regardless, the fifth pick could bring a player that will be good for a long time. Kessel is too one dimensional. Kadri has attitude issues, and #24 will probably just add a future 3rd line player to a team full of 3rd line players.

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Yes, we need more of this on our team.            

 

RRLaI5.gif

 

Which one is the problem? The three on the left are also peddling just as slowly. Besides, we're not looking for Lance Armstrong, we need a hockey player. Last I checked Kessel was pretty good.

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Which one is the problem? The three on the left are also peddling just as slowly. Besides, we're not looking for Lance Armstrong, we need a hockey player. Last I checked Kessel was pretty good.

 

Yes, he does put up points.  He is also well-known for being lazy, out of shape, and a defensive liability. 

 

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/06/01/kessel-a-big-test-for-new-leafs-conditioning-specialist

 

MinJaBen I appreciate your thoughts and opinion and we will see what happens. A couple of others here agree with you. 

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I don't see Kessel as being a good fit on the Canes. Having said that, I get the feeling that in general we may be undervaluing him here almost as much as Leafs fans overvalue him on their boards (one fan suggested Kessel alone was worth two 1st round picks :rolleyes: ). He's a near ppg sniper, practically bullet proof so far, and is only 27 years old. He was named the best forward at last year's Olympic tourney, not a small accomplishment. Yes, he has negatives to go with those positives, but he could easily be a difference maker with the right team, one that is reasonably close to competing rather than needing a major rebuild like the Canes and Leafs. Say, San Jose?  Or I'm sure there are others. So if Toronto is discounting him in a trade I don't rule it out as long as we get the right return, which includes young talent. Not to keep Kessel a Cane (again, not a good fit here), but as a trade piece if the right partner can be found as part of a 3 way deal. Something along the lines of what I suggested in a previous post. 

   

 

Ok, this isn't speculation. I'm playing Canes GM.  If you want to play, feel free to comment (positively or negatively). If you don't like the game, please just ignore.  It's a package deal btw; I don't do the first part if the second isn't available.

 

Semen and #5 to Leafs for Kessel and Gardner.

Kessel to San Jose for #9 plus (maybe their 2nd & 3rd rounders OR 2nd & a big, physical prospect) 

 

#9 overall will get us one of Crouse, Rantanen, Provarov or Werenski. 

 

Use the other picks to draft some of those big, physical athletic kids. 

 

Gardner is a 24yo d-man who was an NHL all-rookie in 2011-12. He has 4 years left on his contract ($4m for 3 years, $3.5m for the 4th).  As a basis for comparison, Montreal just signed 27yo Jeff Petry to a 6 year $33m deal.

 

Take the $3m difference between Semin and Gardner's contracts and use it towards signing another quality d-man (Sekera or Cody Franson?).

 

Our D next season: Faulk, UFA, Gardner, Hainsey, Liles, Murphy.  Add some yutes for depth, either some of our prospects if they're ready for NHL action or cheap FAs like Jordan, Bellemore, etc. (I wish we'd seen more of Hillen before he got hurt). 

 

Still would need to work on the offense, but seems to me that would give us a relatively solid NHL defense for a few years while our prospects develop.

 

Edit: and yeah, if you see whichever of Stromarnifen is available at #5 as a likely franchise centerpiece, you stay at #5. I'll leave that call up to Canes mgmt.  

 

I'm not a fan of bringing in Kadri; he needs to go to a team with established quality leadership.  So let's make them give us Gardner instead if they want to do the deal. Or make him part of a 3rd party trade as well. I mean, Buffalo traded for Evander Kane; sure, more talent, but I'd say probably even more of a potential attitude problem to go with it given how things broke down in the Peg. 

 

As I mentioned earlier, losing Semin's contract is actually worth a lot, specifically whatever $14m will buy on the free agent market.  We should be able to get close to 3 years of a quality defenseman for $14m (Sekera?).  

 

There's no way the Leafs do Kessel, Kadri, and #24OA for #5 and Semin. I think you've got to assume Semin is a write off, so that translates to Kessel, Kadri, #24OA, and $14m for #5OA. Sure, #5 is particularly highly valued this year but it's not McEichel; there's still some development risk, be it Strome's skating, Marner's size, or the fact that it's so much harder to predict the development of defensemen.  

 

I'm not saying we should necessarily do the trade as rumored (if it's even out there). I'm just saying that I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand if the Leafs are so hot after #5OA that they're willing to overpay. With the caveat that Kessel is a trade piece to bring in either a "third tier" 2015 draft pick or a very high level prospect from another organization that wants help now, not a couple of years down the line.        

:couch:

Edited by LakeLivin

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Mark Shiver of The Hockey Writers wrote:

 

The latest I read today was they give the ‘Canes Nazem Kadri, Dion Phaneuf, or Jake Gardiner and their 24th overall pick and in return get Alexander Semin (and his contract), along with the Hurricanes’ fifth overall pick in this year’s draft.

 

 

Before I get shot down he didn't say where the rumor was from and clearly states you can't be sure the rumor is true, "Whether or not this rumor is true, the scenario or others like it deserve examination". He also indicates he is inclined to say no to the deal but outlines reason for consideration.

 

From my point of view if it were  Kadri, Gardiner and their 24th for our 5 and Semin I would think long and hard to consider it. It would address two of our needs and still fit in a rebuilding  plan. Kadri and Gardiner don't come without risk but what does. Kadri is a RFA this summer. I'm not sure I would give up our 5 for this deal but to me it is the type of deal I would consider.

 

NOTE: I'm not trying to change anyones mind. This is my point of view.

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I don't see Kessel as being a good fit on the Canes. Having said that, I get the feeling that in general we may be undervaluing him here almost as much as Leafs fans overvalue him on their boards (one fan suggested Kessel alone was worth two 1st round picks :rolleyes: ). He's a near ppg sniper, practically bullet proof so far, and is only 27 years old. He was named the best forward at last year's Olympic tourney, not a small accomplishment. Yes, he has negatives to go with those positives, but he could easily be a difference maker with the right team, one that is reasonably close to competing rather than needing a major rebuild like the Canes and Leafs. Say, San Jose?  Or I'm sure there are others. So if Toronto is discounting him in a trade I don't rule it out as long as we get the right return, which includes young talent. Not to keep Kessel a Cane (again, not a good fit here), but as a trade piece if the right partner can be found as part of a 3 way deal. Something along the lines of what I suggested in a previous post. 

   

 

 

I'm not a fan of bringing in Kadri; he needs to go to a team with established quality leadership.  So let's make them give us Gardner instead if they want to do the deal. Or make him part of a 3rd party trade as well. I mean, Buffalo traded for Evander Kane; sure, more talent, but I'd say probably even more of a potential attitude problem to go with it given how things broke down in the Peg. 

 

As I mentioned earlier, losing Semin's contract is actually worth a lot, specifically whatever $14m will buy on the free agent market.  We should be able to get close to 3 years of a quality defenseman for $14m (Sekera?).  

 

There's no way the Leafs do Kessel, Kadri, and #24OA for #5 and Semin. I think you've got to assume Semin is a write off, so that translates to Kessel, Kadri, #24OA, and $14m for #5OA. Sure, #5 is particularly highly valued this year but it's not McEichel; there's still some development risk, be it Strome's skating, Marner's size, or the fact that it's so much harder to predict the development of defensemen.  

 

I'm not saying we should necessarily do the trade as rumored (if it's even out there). I'm just saying that I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand if the Leafs are so hot after #5OA that they're willing to overpay. With the caveat that Kessel is a trade piece to bring in either a "third tier" 2015 draft pick or a very high level prospect from another organization that wants help now, not a couple of years down the line.        

:couch:

 

Don't forget, Kadri is an RFA, so his value is not the same as if he were signed. You may only be able to negotiate a rental, he could get "offersheeted", etc. Including him in with Kessel and the #24 is not nothing, but it isn't huge either, especially knowing that everyone knows he has problems in Toronto.

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Not a fan of Gardiner, his offense is ok but he can't play defense. Makes too many mental errors and takes too many shifts off (based on what I've seen).

Not a fan of Kessel, Kadri, or JVR for that matter. They could have good years but they all carry risks and/or financial baggage. If there is any risk involved, I would rather us take that risk on a potential core player for years to come.

I haven't said anything about this proposed/rumored trade with Toronto because I don't see it happening.

Just keep the pick and build for the future.

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I would take the #5 pick/Semin for Kessel/Kadri in a second. Kessel put up 61points last year and Kadri 39points(and these were off years for them?). Semin put up like 15points. That would be 80more scoring points for the canes. I'm sick of waiting for draft picks that may or may not pan out. I know this year draft picks are all supposed to be great but we need to win now before we get relocated, I don't want the same team next year with a couple small trades and a draft pick that may or may not be ready in 1-3years. If we have the oppurtunity to unload that horrible semin contract and pick up two guys who know how to score a lot at the NHL level than I'm all for it! I know they were both defensive liabilites but look at the garbage team that was around them, that could all change with a change of scenery and some new teammates.

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I would take the #5 pick/Semin for Kessel/Kadri in a second. Kessel put up 61points last year and Kadri 39points(and these were off years for them?). Semin put up like 15points. That would be 80more scoring points for the canes. I'm sick of waiting for draft picks that may or may not pan out. I know this year draft picks are all supposed to be great but we need to win now before we get relocated, I don't want the same team next year with a couple small trades and a draft pick that may or may not be ready in 1-3years. If we have the oppurtunity to unload that horrible semin contract and pick up two guys who know how to score a lot at the NHL level than I'm all for it! I know they were both defensive liabilites but look at the garbage team that was around them, that could all change with a change of scenery and some new teammates.

 

Jim Rutherford, is that you???!!

 

Kessel is the last player this team needs.  I would rather have a Semin than a Kessel.  No major changes will happen until the big contracts run out next season.

Edited by bluedevil58

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Wonder how long its going to take for the rumor to get to Morgan Rielly? 

 

These rumors seem awfully close to Toronto basically buying our draft pick, particularly if they turn around and buyout Semin.

 

I thought the league frowned on that?

Edited by coastal_caniac

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For the record, I did not reignite this discussion. The names mentioned are back in the neighborhood of the ones I was kicking around before.

 

One point I had made previously was maybe Toronto gets so caught up in the idea of picking two guys who could be elite, #1 overall pick types, that Francis gets the pot sweetened. Adding in the #24 pick would indeed do that. This draft is deep all the way into mid second round. While we would be givng up the sweetest pick, we would have two very solid chances at very nice future NHL players in this draft still.

 

The Kessel being out of shape thing and not playing defense are valid concerns.  Of course we are unloading a Russian guy so utterly disengaged that the Kessel issues are not even in the same solar system. Kessel's very off year on a very off team would still have led our team by a wide margin. Kessel is what we would dream Skinner could be if he got his offense together. This is what makes me think we might trade Skinner if we did this. At least Kessel will put up offense to go with his lack of defense. Also has less apparent concussion risk.

 

Even in an off year, Kessel was the #45 most productive forward in the NHL, with the same points as Marion Hossa and one more than Tomas Plekenac. And again, out of the last 4 years this was a very off year.

 

Kessel is clearly a polarizing figure, but ppg players are rare. No, he did not hit a ppg last year, but he did each of the three years before that AND his entire playoff career is a ppg player.  This year there were about 15 guys within singe digits span of being a ppg player. The names on that list are the stars of the league. Then there are really good players who disappear in the playoffs. Not Kessel.

 

Kessel was the #5 overal pick. Just found that ironic.

 

Kadri? #7 overall. Serious potential. Easily could put up 65 points and be a solid second line center. Yes, he needs to grow up. Guys do grow up though. Getting out of that Toronto madness could have an effect on both guys. Raleigh is the anti-Toronto.

 

Then we get the #24 pick? Could easily find a very nice defenseman there.

 

Then we get rid of Semin.

 

I know that this locker room is probably not the most ideal place for an out of shaper and a problem child. But at least we'd be jettisoning a guy who was both, and didn't produce in the process. Frankly on the dysfunctional scale alone, Semin probably equals Kessel and Kadri together.

 

I personally think that picking up Kessel would allow us to trade Skinner before his NTC kicks in, presumabley for a very nice defenseman, and possibly getting back a bit in the salary column. 

 

But say for a minute that we don't trade Skinner. Somehow after this deal Francis finds a defenseman in UFA. Just for kicks.

 

E. Staal- J. Staal - Kessel: J Staal plays the defense. E. and Kessel get the offense going like E and Semin did back when.

 

Skinner-Kadri-Lindholm: Seriously, that line could be extremely productive.

 

Nesty-Rask-Gerbe: There are points in that line

 

And Kessel and Kadri are still young guys. And we get a first rounder this year (on one rumor), and a very early second rounder this year and two first rounders next year.

 

 

I get that this smacks of quick fixes. It does.

 

I still want us to take the pick. That is the safer move. That is a special player for years to come. No risk of Kessel and Kadri negatively affecting the team.

 

But there is always a part of me that likes the idea of getting good players and a somewhat one sided deal because the other guys are so intent on the move they have in mind, that they will overpay.

 

Last thing. IF RF makes this move, I have to think it would be because he thinks Kessel is way overmaligned, and that Peters is in the loop and is down with it. Same w/ Kadri. It is also possible that RF and the boys are not as enamoured with Stromarnifin as we are. IF the move actually happens I will be pretty excited because it would indicate that Francis and Peters are not worried about Kessel's bike times, and think that Kadri will grow up, and they know better than we do.

 

This deal does not make sense JUST as a Semin dump. It only make sense if RF/BP think Kessel and Kadri will hit their potential and make the team better, not just this year, but for years to come.

 

If they agree with much of the board on Kessel's downside, (and Kadri's too for that matter), they won't make the deal.

 

So really, if in Ron We Trust, whatever happens is good news.

Edited by remkin

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Wonder how long its going to take for the rumor to get to Morgan Rielly? 

 

These rumors seem awfully close to Toronto basically buying our draft pick, particularly if they turn around and buyout Semin.

 

I thought the league frowned on that?

 

Well, Toronto basically bought out David Clarkson's big cap hit by trading him to Columbus for Nathan Horton, who's likely to never play again.  I thought they frowned on that too, but . . .

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