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Rumors and Trade Deadline Talk

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I imagine Pitts would like to have JStaal, but they are in a corner with contracts and the only way to trade for J would be do dump off bad contracts on the Canes.  Of course, the king of the "quick fix" is in Pittsburgh and he is ultra comfortable with players that he knows.  If the decision to move on from EStaal has been made and discussed (I have no clue), then I could see J wanting to move.  Money wise, I just don't see how Pittsburgh makes it fit.

 

disclaimer: the only reason I respond to this nonsense is that I have no sense to respond to.

 

Yeah, the Pens are so strapped (and were before JR even got there btw) some analysts have speculated that they should move Malkin (which i don't see happening).  And given that they're much shallower on D than O, a Pitt/ J.Staal trade makes no sense whatsoever. Unless by "J Staal" we're talking Jared? :P

Edited by LakeLivin

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Kessel and Kadri were available at the trade deadline. That was my flippin' point.

 

Sure s_d, but how many teams are "buyers" at the trade deadline? Isn't that a very small subset? Unless you're challenging for a playoff spot right then, don't you wait until the offseason to wheel and deal? And given what TMLs are looking for, a prospective trading partner wouldn't have been challenging for a playoff spot imo.  

Edited by LakeLivin

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Just saying that I think some are over valuing Kessel's flippability. Justifying the market for him by saying no trades have been made since March is a bit of a stretch (IMO).

Edited by super_dave_1

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Just saying that I think some are over valuing Kessel's flippability. Justifying the market for him by saying no trades have been made since May is a bit much.

 

I wasn't justifying the market for him by saying no trades have been made since March. Others argued that the fact that he hasn't been dealt yet indicated that he has little value,  I was pointing out the fallacy of that logic.

 

Hey, if he's not flippable, you don't do the deal . . .

Edited by LakeLivin

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I wouldn't say never.  If the hypothetical trade was the 5th and Semin for OEL or Ekblad and their team's pick 1st Rounder, I'd giddily consider it.  But if I'm GMRF, I want a trade that make my team younger, better, and cheaper(and NTC-less)  Kessel helps with none of these.(OK, more goals than Sasha, but half the League would do that for us).

 

I completely agree with your desires. But the reality is that you're unlikely to get all of those in any one deal. So the question to me about a particular deal is this: what's your net gain given you'll hit some of your objectives but not all of them? 

 

Second question: do you really think so little of Kessel that you don't the think the Canes would be a much better team with him than with Semin?  I'm not questioning your clear opinion that we shouldn't do the deal.  I don't even know that we should necessarily do the deal. But with respect to getting better, your statement above seems more to me like you're talking about Zach Boychuk level talent than Phil Kessel level talent (even given his faults).       

Edited by LakeLivin

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We need to resolve problems, not gamble on other teams problems working here.

 

Semin's gone in 3 years regardless, which also coincides with when I think this team will begin turning the corner in a proper rebuild. Seems convenient to me if he simply has to stay and can't be bought out.

 

Bringing in Kessel is doubling down with twice the contract length. If Kessel doesn't pan out.....7....years..... the risk isn't even remotely worth it.

 

Semin can skate in circles for all I care until his contract is up, at least it isn't a 7 year contract.

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From http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/rumor-roundup-kessel-malkin-and-nash-in-new-locales-next-season/

 

MAPLE LEAFS GETTING CALLS ON KESSEL

Friedman also reports a handful of teams spoke with the Toronto Maple Leafs during the recent NHL Draft Combine in Buffalo regarding their asking price for right winger Phil Kessel. He believes if a trade happens it probably won’t take place for at least a couple of weeks. That’s likely because NHL teams are waiting to find out what the salary cap will be for 2015-16.

 

Over the second half of this season, the 27-year-old Kessel was a frequent subject of trade speculation. He has seven years remaining on his contract at an annual cap hit of $8 million plus a partial no-trade clause. It’s believed the Leafs wish to move him for a return of younger, more affordable assets.

 

Despite criticism over Kessel’s conditioning and defensive play, he’s reached the 30-goal mark five times. He’s led the Leafs in scoring every season since joining the club in 2009. There is a market for a player of his offensive skills.

 

Kessel’s salary, however, could be a sticking point. Two-thirds of the NHL’s 30 clubs have cap payrolls in excess of $55 million for ’15-’16. Of those, 13 have payrolls over $60 million. With the salary cap projected to modestly increase from $69 million to $71 million, that doesn’t leave many clubs with the cap space to comfortably absorb his contract. To consummate a deal, the Leafs could be forced to pick up part of Kessel’s salary.

Edited by LakeLivin

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If Semin can't be traded at 50% retained, I still think the best thing is a buyout rather than a trade that diminishes a return on a valued asset.  It's like playing poker.  You gotta know when to hold 'em.  Know when to fold 'em.  Know when to walk away.  Know when to run.  Sometimes you have to fold after the draw when what started out looking like a good hand goes bad.

 

I want to play poker with any of you guys that think a buyout is a bad option.  You would be the one that would never fold a bad hand once money was in the pot. 

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Lake, if your comment "others argued that the fact that he hasn't been dealt yet indicated that he has little value" was in reference to my comments, to my recollection, attempts to trade Kessel didn't just start at this trade deadline. Correct me if I err, but I believe that Toronto fans have been disgruntled with his performance for quite a while, and further, I thought trade feelers were put out some time back. Now maybe that's just fan noise, but thought I'd read that?

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If Semin can't be traded at 50% retained, I still think the best thing is a buyout rather than a trade that diminishes a return on a valued asset.  It's like playing poker.  You gotta know when to hold 'em.  Know when to fold 'em.  Know when to walk away.  Know when to run.  Sometimes you have to fold after the draw when what started out looking like a good hand goes bad.

 

I want to play poker with any of you guys that think a buyout is a bad option.  You would be the one that would never fold a bad hand once money was in the pot. 

 

My perspective is that we should look at the "net" on the entire package. Staying with car analogies: it feels kind of like including your car as a trade in on a new car. It doesn't matter how generous the dealer's offer on your old car is. What's relevant is the net price you pay with the trade in versus the bottom line if you sold your old car yourself.   I know, that's not a great analogy, but I think it gets to how a "bottom line perspective" feels to me.   

 

Lake, if your comment "others argued that the fact that he hasn't been dealt yet indicated that he has little value" was in reference to my comments, to my recollection, attempts to trade Kessel didn't just start at this trade deadline. Correct me if I err, but I believe that Toronto fans have been disgruntled with his performance for quite a while, and further, I thought trade feelers were put out some time back. Now maybe that's just fan noise, but thought I'd read that?

 

Kjun: I think dogbutler specifically said something along those lines, but I got that feeling from several others as well. I'm not sure how long ago Shanahan (he's making the decisions, right?) might have decided to blow things up, but I'd be surprised if it was before TMLs nosedive this year.  At that point I've got to believe they knew that they'd make a coaching change.  Would you make a trade of that magnitude without input from your new coach? I mean, I can't see any rush; the season was already shot.  And given what TML seems like they're targeting (a very low pick in the 2015 draft), who would have been a good trade candidate anyways? The teams that were competing for a playoff spot weren't likely to have a low enough draft pick for TMLs tastes.  And if you were a team with a shot at the lottery, would you have considered trading that pick before the lottery drawing? I just don't think there would have been much of an environment for moving Kessel up until until after the cup (that's just my opinion, you may have more info than I do).

 

On that front, the post above does have some speculation from sportswriters who may have more knowledge than either us or the fans on Leafs forums.   Who, by the way, were so disgruntled that the Leafs shut down their official NHL forum well before the season ended. :P

Edited by LakeLivin

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More talk on Hockey Buzz concerning Penguins trading away B Sutter!! Has his time in the Sightless Eye come and gone, or could he be useful back in the fold?

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According to that writer, Derek Roy?? Seriously, I've seen several writers and bloggers repeatedly trash him as weak defensively, etc, etc, so leads me to believe not very much?? Of course you then have the elusive JR Factor who may overvalue. I just think the kid was really at home here, and was stunned that he was traded. IMHO, he was always a "gamer", and loved when he'd score those "shorties".

 

And sorry OBXer,you are right but was not thinking this was "trade speculation", just my idle speculation!!

Edited by KJUNKANE

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When we made the J trade I kept saying please don't trade Sutter. But we did. He was a pretty good third center for us and I thought his penalty kill work was excellent. I also enjoyed the shorties he had a knack for scoring.

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I wouldn't consider trading for Sutter right now because he's an UFA after next season. We aren't close enough to where a rental makes any sense to me. If we're interested, wait a year and go after him on the FA market instead of giving up assets.   Hmm. . .a potential trade with Pitt for a player who could be available on the open market the following year; sound familiar? :P

Edited by LakeLivin

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Yes, but in "reverse"?

 

And Lake, why would you consider him a "rental". To my observations, there always seemed to be a close niche that he, Skins and several other younger players forged, and possibly overly nostalgic, but it wouldn't surprise me to see he'd welcome a chance to return? Thus trade a high 16 pick, then in turn sign Sutter to a new contract? Besides, I could then fish one of my jerseys out of storage!!

Edited by KJUNKANE

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Just to elaborate one step further, my basic question remains. Does the group see Brandon being slotted back in the fold, or am I being overly sentimental for this player?

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Yes, but in "reverse"?

 

And Lake, why would you consider him a "rental". To my observations, there always seemed to be a close niche that he, Skins and several other younger players forged, and possibly overly nostalgic, but it wouldn't surprise me to see he'd welcome a chance to return? Thus trade a high 16 pick, then in turn sign Sutter to a new contract? Besides, I could then fish one of my jerseys out of storage!!

 

I probably should have said "potential rental".  Maybe I'm too pessimistic right now about being able to compete with other teams for (pending) FAs without overpaying.  My other concern is that I ideally see Sutter as a 3rd line center.  That really doesn't seem like an area we should be investing resource on before we fix the blue line.   

 

I guess my question back to you is: why give up assets for him now instead of going after him as a free agent after next season? If he's close to the Canes yutes I suspect we could get him the message that we'd be interested without formally tampering.

 

On the other hand, I hate to say never. Maybe if we had a sign and trade agreement and he came cheap . . .

Edited by LakeLivin

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More talk on Hockey Buzz concerning Penguins trading away B Sutter!! Has his time in the Sightless Eye come and gone, or could he be useful back in the fold?

 

We replaced him with Victor Rask, so why give up anything for somebody we don't really need?

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We replaced him with Victor Rask, so why give up anything for somebody we don't really need?

Point well taken, coastal. My addled brain at work, combined with my sentimentality.

And Lake, just to bring him back into the fold quicker, but as above, coastal's point is "on point", and quite frankly, Rask, IMHO, is a step up!!

And someone please help. For some reason, from my office computer, I am unable to get a clear distinction between that which I quote and my comments, as witnessed above?

Edited by KJUNKANE

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We replaced him with Victor Rask, so why give up anything for somebody we don't really need?

Point well taken, coastal. My addled brain at work, combined with my sentimentality.

And Lake, just to bring him back into the fold quicker, but as above, coastal's point is "on point", and quite frankly, Rask, IMHO, is a step up!!

And someone please help. For some reason, from my office computer, I am unable to get a clear distinction between that which I quote and my comments, as witnessed above?

 

 

Kjun, try this..after the quote box appears in the quoted reply  make sure the cursor is below the quote box and then curse down two more spaces before typing. This works for me and its worth a try.

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Thanks OBXer. now, for something along "Trade" talk, I guess. Am reading that GM's "gathered in Buffalo this past weekend for combine activity. Anyone hearing anything coming from that?

Edited by KJUNKANE

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Thanks OBXer. now, for something along "Trade" talk, I guess. Am reading that GM's "gathered in Buffalo this past weekend for combine activity. Anyone hearing anything coming from that?

Some random stuff, nothing on trades.

One guy who was at the combine and talking to scouts/GM's said a couple of things:

-Scouts are raving about Provorov

-Crouse's stock may have fallen, and he "could fall out of the top ten draft picks." However he said one scout said that he "is a better leader than the 8-10 guys that are ranked/may go ahead of him."

I read that Eichel said he was better than McDavid while interviewing with Buffalo. Eichel thought this was supposed to remain confidential and sounded surprised that it was leaked. He didn't back away from the statement though, saying basically that you should think you are the best.

Eichel apparently had a good combine, he almost jumped off the end of the mat during the long-jump test. I think they said he cleared the previous best jump (Hanifin) by three feet.

Marner said that Strome's (who he is friends with) interview with Arizona is his "big interview", and that his is with Toronto. Interesting that he would say that.

Lots of articles going around talking about teams trading up and/or talking about a consensus top five and what it would take to get there.

McDavid, Eichel, Hanifin, Marner, Strome, and Crouse met with Blackhawks and Lightning players before game 3.

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