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AWACSooner

The great E Staal Has Been Traded Thread

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Rem, I gotta give it to you. You never lose faith...or you have been taking of the botanicals you grow on the island.  The Canes played well in December and made up one point in the standings.  At this rate, we'll sneak into the last spot on July 1.

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I will lay out my take on that elsewhere. Clearly odds are against actually making the playoffs. If you look at my paragraph on the playoffs, I admit that it is still a long shot. But there are reasons to hope. Not believe, which is faith, but hope.

 

Really, though I am trying to say that Francis should try as much as possible to remove that hope from dealings with Eric. Even if we miss the playoffs, (likely), we could benefit from keeping E, if the deal is right and he is still trade-able. And even if we trade E, it is possible (though even less likely) to make the playoffs anyways).

Edited by remkin

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For me, I think I'll hold off on investing too much emotional energy on the Canes playoff chances until after we're north of hockey .500.  If (hopefully when) we get over that threshold I'll start taking a closer look.  

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c480x270_36.jpg

 

The playoffs don't enter into it. He's STONE DEAD.

 

A smattering of games in which our $56-million man resembles the player we've been paying him to be for the past six years does not even begin to compensate this fan base, let alone justify any argument that we need a few more years of his half-seasons of work just to be absolutely certain he's not our actual savior.

 

I really don't care what Eric does between now and the TD. If the team somehow climbs into the playoff mix and it is decided that we need to retain his services on the off-chance that it will not only get into but actually go somewhere in the post-season, it will signal to me that RF is as delusional as JR.

 

And there is simply no way RF is that delusional.

 

Three years @ $4.5 million, no NTC. Take it, leave it, whatever.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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So really, despite the hope, a couple of things.

 

For me the emotional energy is really just enjoying this part of the ride, not REALLY expecting playoffs. On one hand it is eternally frustrating that this team would be a legit playoff team but for the hole it dug. On the other hand, they are currently one of the top teams in the league, so enjoy it while it lasts (is my emotion), whilst also smiling at the potential just below the surface in our system, especially w/ Aho's play and lots of picks in this years' deep draft.

 

As I posited in the other thread, to actually make the playoffs, we must maintain this level for 44 straight games. And that, is unlikely.

 

This is why, I continue to maintain that Francis must deal with Eric as if we are out of it. Unfortunately, due to the NTC, we need Eric to see it that way too. While I think that the case can be made for a $5 million salary, I doubt he even takes that, and our chances of making the playoffs is greater than Eric taking $4.5 million and no NTC, so that is just saying "move him", which is fine. I get that.

 

Just saw Cleese at DPAC. He and Palin are my favorite Pythons, and what a classic sketch.

 

"'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!"

Edited by remkin

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Having a couple of good games does not make up for seasons of lack of leadership. Have him give up the C. waive his NTC, as accept a massive cut in pay

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Found it interesting that both of Chuck's questions on Kaiton's Corner last night related to Eric, one directly, one indirectly. 

 

The first was asking whether it would ever happen that the C got stripped. It was posed about Eric and Chuck said he couldn't imagine it, and then quickly turned it into a theoretical question about doing it to "any" Captain in mid-season.

 

The second asked about the probability of making a trade in the next few weeks, well before the TD. He listed all Canes UFAs and then said he does think there will be a couple of moves before the bidding starts to really heat up.

 

On to the third period, and after a particularly good shift, Chuck said it would be a shame if Eirc didn't get rewarded "because he's been playing really good hockey for the last five or six weeks."

 

I guess this year's media guide stipulates that each game is one week long.  :lol:

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Did Chuck mean rewarded with a goal, or a contract?

 

No matter what one might think or feel about Eric Staal, the idea that he has not been rewarded should not be one of them.

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Did Chuck mean rewarded with a goal, or a contract?

 

No matter what one might think or feel about Eric Staal, the idea that he has not been rewarded should not be one of them.

Oh a goal, totally. But it was the suggestion that Eric's been playing well since TG that I found laughable. And the more I've thought about it, the more Eric's recent spate of better effort fits with his data set.

 

Think about it. Eric turned it on in 2009 when it looked like we had a shot to get in. He has consistently started slowly and played much better in the second half, after much of the sand has already run through the hourglass (i.e., when it's too stinking late). 

 

We talk about playing with desperation here sometimes. It feels like Eric waits to see whether the current group can get within shouting distance before he decides it's worth his effort. To me, that's the opposite of what a Captain should do: Play every game with - and insist on getting from everyone, up and down the lineup - the kind of effort and desperation and self-sacrifice needed to win games all year long, starting in October. 

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The first was asking whether it would ever happen that the C got stripped. It was posed about Eric and Chuck said he couldn't imagine it, and then quickly turned it into a theoretical question about doing it to "any" Captain in mid-season.

And this is the Chuck who said he had ZERO issues with Rod being stripped mid-season in early 2010.

SMH!

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And this is the Chuck who said he had ZERO issues with Rod being stripped mid-season in early 2010.

SMH!

In fairness, AWAC, I think that was carefully choreographed. Everybody knew Eric was getting it next, and the fact that Rod is still with the org tells me he was passing the baton, not having the C "stripped."

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In fairness, AWAC, I think that was carefully choreographed. Everybody knew Eric was getting it next, and the fact that Rod is still with the org tells me he was passing the baton, not having the C "stripped."

 

I'm going to disagree. The baton could have been passed in the off-season.  Brindy was the guy who lead us to the promised land. He was struggling but that was no reason to take the C from him. At the time I remember thinking the hockey-gods will make us pay for this.  IMO it was one of the lowest class acts this organization ever made. That Brindy is still with the team is more a reflection of his character than the organizations.

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What does having a "C" or an "A" on a sweater really mean any more? I'm not sure I/we even know. We don't know what goes on in the room. Since ES has been captain, the on ice results have been lackluster, but is that because ES is a bad captain? I'm not saying this in support of ES, but I just think it's gotten to be more marketing than anything else.

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What does having a "C" or an "A" on a sweater really mean any more? I'm not sure I/we even know. We don't know what goes on in the room. Since ES has been captain, the on ice results have been lackluster, but is that because ES is a bad captain? I'm not saying this in support of ES, but I just think it's gotten to be more marketing than anything else.

 

That's a question that's been on my mind lately as well, dave. As I understand it (and we all know I don't always understand things well), in the past the Captain and Assistants were only the players authorized to speak with the officials about on-ice calls, etc. I got the impression that, "back in the day", that was pretty much the extent of the duties of the "C" and "A" folks - the coach was the motivator, not the players.

 

Of course, we know now that players are different - as society is different. Players are more outspoken and not so much for deferring to a teammmate to do their talking for them, even in an official capacity. Maybe it's time to ditch the notion of tagging the captain's sweater with a "C" - if they're leading in the locker room and/or on the ice, then the rest of the team will know it and respond to it.

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That's a question that's been on my mind lately as well, dave. As I understand it (and we all know I don't always understand things well), in the past the Captain and Assistants were only the players authorized to speak with the officials about on-ice calls, etc. I got the impression that, "back in the day", that was pretty much the extent of the duties of the "C" and "A" folks - the coach was the motivator, not the players.

 

Of course, we know now that players are different - as society is different. Players are more outspoken and not so much for deferring to a teammmate to do their talking for them, even in an official capacity. Maybe it's time to ditch the notion of tagging the captain's sweater with a "C" - if they're leading in the locker room and/or on the ice, then the rest of the team will know it and respond to it.

I think it's always been a combination of the two, and that it is more about each individual team's character and personnel that dictates who has more influence on players' thinking. At the same time, players with no letter can do as much or more to lead a team than those who have one.

 

Rocket Richard promised Canadiens' fans a Cup in the 1955-56 season, after being suspended and missing the '55 Final for the infamous "Richard Riot." The suspension (engineered by NHL President Clarence Campbell) cost Montreal the '55 Cup, but the next year, true to his word, Richard delivered it - and only AFTER that, 15 years into his NHL career - was he elected Captain by his teammates.

 

Which brings me back to selection. I can easily imagine BP instituting a policy of annual elections of captains. I sure hope so. I don't think the C or As should be "givens" from one season to the next, but based on who has actually led the team on the ice and in the room.

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Watching the last game I was again impressed by Skinners committment and effort to play an all around game.  If he keeps up that work ethic, combined with his scoring ability and natural exuberence, I wouldn't be surprised to see hiim wear a letter at some point in his career.  Note that I'm not saying I think he should be the next Cane to wear the C.  Heck, I wonder if GMRF is still shopping Skinner (if the earlier rumors are to be beileved). 

Edited by LakeLivin

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Speaking of trade value, have to think teams that have been scouting us will have upped their value on Skinner. Thing is, if Skinner is back to form, do we want to let him go? I guess it still comes down to value.

 

Skinner for Johansen? Just kicking tires.

 

Also, here's a take on E.

 

http://cardiaccane.com/2016/01/01/carolina-hurricanes-eric-staal-shouldnt-traded-despite-increased-trade-value/

Edited by remkin

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I like that site, but have to say after reading the post I found a few things interesting:

 

1)  It makes excuses for Eric many times somehow only to 'justify' it.  This is/was one of the top 10 people paid in the NHL. So what nights should he take off from honest effort so I will know not to buy tickets that night?

 

Examples from the article:

 

"With this excitement and compete level back in Staal after it had been lost for quite a bit, .."  WOW let that statement sink in.  NOT COMPETITIVE FOR QUITE A BIT.  REALLY?  TOP 10 PAY?

 

"this team has been miserable at times, and the fact that he has been a trooper and stuck around as long as he has says a lot about his character and the love he has for this team and his organization."  WOW REALLY?  SEE AGAIN TOP 10 PAY - probably had nothing to do with him staying and being NOT COMPETITIVE FOR QUITE A BIT.  FOR $9 million dollars let me show the organization how much I love them also with a general and often lack of personal compete.  I kinda feel sorry for Eric.  For $25,000 a day every day of the year, he's had it really difficult.

 

 

"This player, a man who is as competitive as they come in the NHL, has been a member of a team that has undergone six consecutive playoff-less seasons. He has the right to be mad, and sometimes that shows on the ice with some isolated streaks of carelessness and some lack of all around effort.."  YES THIS DESCRIBES SOMEONE WE NEED TO PAY EVEN MORE MONEY TO DOESNT IT?  ITS LIKE AN OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE.  IF ONLY WE HAD ERIC STAAL THE LAST FEW YEARS WE MAY HAVE MADE THE PLAYOFFS... hrmm hows that logic holding up?  Wait we did have him didn't we.  IF only we had paid him enough money....

 

 

2)  As I like that website, I must assume the article was written by his agent.  I can tell you the people I speak with don't feel the same.  He has been a "-" so many times in his career and helped his team so little during the times he was needed its laughable to come to the conclusion this organization should pay him again given the years of history we've seen with him.  Did the author not realize that October, and November and part of December yet again this year actually occurred?

 

Thanks for posting.  Its a good website but that article has added a new twist to "Fantasy Hockey."

 

 

 

 

 

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Speaking of trade value, have to think teams that have been scouting us will have upped their value on Skinner. Thing is, if Skinner is back to form, do we want to let him go? I guess it still comes down to value.

 

Skinner for Johansen? Just kicking tires.

 

Also, here's a take on E.

 

http://cardiaccane.com/2016/01/01/carolina-hurricanes-eric-staal-shouldnt-traded-despite-increased-trade-value/

 

Yeah, but wouldn't RF also have to have upped his asking price as well? To my eyes Skinner isn't just back on track, he's improving given his committment (and relative success) to making a diffrerence defensively. And he provides something the Canes are very short on, namely the potential to single handedly manufacture goals.  Who else could we put in that category, maybe Versteeg?   And it's easy to forget that the kid is still only 23yo!  

 

Given how shallow we are up front I want to add firepower, not exchange it.  I'm not saying Skinner is untouchable but I have a hard time seeing him bringing back a return that would make sense to me. My outlook stems from our lack of offensive depth almost as much as from Skinner himself.

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Yeah, but wouldn't RF also have to have upped his asking price as well? To my eyes Skinner isn't just back on track, he's improving given his committment (and relative success) to making a diffrerence defensively. And he provides something the Canes are very short on, namely the potential to single handedly manufacture goals.  Who else could we put in that category, maybe Versteeg?   And it's easy to forget that the kid is still only 23yo!  

 

Given how shallow we are up front I want to add firepower, not exchange it.  I'm not saying Skinner is untouchable but I have a hard time seeing him bringing back a return that would make sense to me. My outlook stems from our lack of offensive depth almost as much as from Skinner himself.

 

It would be the increased asking price that might make it interesting. Skinner for Johansen straight up?

 

I agree he is harder to want to trade now. That's the tricky thing about trading guys. When their value starts getting back up, who wants to trade them any more?

 

I really like watching this Skinner, and agree we need scoring. Skinner's resurgence is part of our resurgence. The only thing would be the C word. That is the thing hanging over him. Not for that, I wouldn't want to move him. But the "one hit away" thing, while a bit harsh, is an issue. As with any trade it depends on what is coming back, but I wouldn't be in any hurry to move him.

Edited by remkin

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I like that site, but have to say after reading the post I found a few things interesting:

 

1)  It makes excuses for Eric many times somehow only to 'justify' it.  This is/was one of the top 10 people paid in the NHL. So what nights should he take off from honest effort so I will know not to buy tickets that night?

 

Examples from the article:

 

"With this excitement and compete level back in Staal after it had been lost for quite a bit, .."  WOW let that statement sink in.  NOT COMPETITIVE FOR QUITE A BIT.  REALLY?  TOP 10 PAY?

 

"this team has been miserable at times, and the fact that he has been a trooper and stuck around as long as he has says a lot about his character and the love he has for this team and his organization."  WOW REALLY?  SEE AGAIN TOP 10 PAY - probably had nothing to do with him staying and being NOT COMPETITIVE FOR QUITE A BIT.  FOR $9 million dollars let me show the organization how much I love them also with a general and often lack of personal compete.  I kinda feel sorry for Eric.  For $25,000 a day every day of the year, he's had it really difficult.

 

 

"This player, a man who is as competitive as they come in the NHL, has been a member of a team that has undergone six consecutive playoff-less seasons. He has the right to be mad, and sometimes that shows on the ice with some isolated streaks of carelessness and some lack of all around effort.."  YES THIS DESCRIBES SOMEONE WE NEED TO PAY EVEN MORE MONEY TO DOESNT IT?  ITS LIKE AN OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE.  IF ONLY WE HAD ERIC STAAL THE LAST FEW YEARS WE MAY HAVE MADE THE PLAYOFFS... hrmm hows that logic holding up?  Wait we did have him didn't we.  IF only we had paid him enough money....

 

 

2)  As I like that website, I must assume the article was written by his agent.  I can tell you the people I speak with don't feel the same.  He has been a "-" so many times in his career and helped his team so little during the times he was needed its laughable to come to the conclusion this organization should pay him again given the years of history we've seen with him.  Did the author not realize that October, and November and part of December yet again this year actually occurred?

 

Thanks for posting.  Its a good website but that article has added a new twist to "Fantasy Hockey."

 

 

This.  The part i particularly liked was "He is at a point where he is realizing that the game can be fun,"  10 years as a top-5 paid player... i'd probably be finding things rather fun at this point as well.

 

"Lately, it appears to me that he gets it."  Again, 10 years as a top-5 paid player.  The fact he only 'appears to get it' lately speaks more to concern than to justification.  "This may be starting to rub off on Staal".  Again... 10 years as a top-5 paid player...

 

I'm utterly underwhelmed by that assessment

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I like that site, but have to say after reading the post I found a few things interesting:

 

I'm utterly underwhelmed by that assessment

 

I'm glad I wasn't the only one that saw that article. I agree with one & realm - I'm sorry, but  a guy who gets paid millions a year should not be just "turning the switch" at Christmas. It just isn't defensible, as much as that Cardiac Canes article tried to do so.

 

Hm. Maybe RF should make extended sessions with a sports psychologist a condition of E.'s deal. Maybe then E. and the team will figure out why it seems like he can't be bothered to make an effort until mid-season.

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Just for the record, I'm just putting it out there, not in total agreement w/ the article.

 

Still thinking deeper discount, and no NTC, or change of scenery

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