Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
AWACSooner

The great E Staal Has Been Traded Thread

Recommended Posts

The only two scenarios I can see that E isn't moved is (1) RF does see E as part of the future or (2) E invokes his no trade clause.

 

The odds of us making the playoffs are still a long shot (IMO) but a chance. Francis has publicly stated (last year) he would always like to get something for a player instead of chancing losing a player to free agency. He also has said his goal is to build a team that can compete every year for the playoffs. That would lead you to believe he is looking at trade options. But can this team afford to make a move like E if we have a real chance at the playoffs? I don't know.

 

If E was moved I would think it has to be to a legitimate Cup contender. That would make him a true rental and the return won't be a top 6 forward but rather picks, prospects or a bad contract.  So if we are in playoff contention is it worth it to stand pat? let the season play out and deal with the FA consequence. I don't know.

 

Interesting times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am no expert at reading Francis, but in his interview w/ Forslund this did occur to me. One thing Francis is not doing is saying things like "we really want to get this done".  In Tampa, they are having serious talks with Stamkos. In LA, Kopitar is about to be extended. In Raliegh, "I've talked with Eric's agent in December, we'll probably talk at some point in January."

 

He also re-iterated that he is committed to long term building of a perennial contender. 

 

Eric is clearly feeling the heat of Francis' silent treatment.

 

Guesswork: Francis knows that he is going to offer Eric a number and NTC, that Eric will not like, and he's not going to move off it much at all. He does not want to do that while we're still in it. He is hoping the team breaks in or out of it hard before the deadline. Until then he does not want to show his hand. The closer to the deadline the more deafening the silence.

 

More guesswork. Francis knows that the deal that makes sense for the team, say $5 million/year, no NTC, is not going to be taken by Eric, as such, one way or the other Eric is likely gone.

 

Rank speculation: Francis would really prefer this team misses one more year. Let him get a first round pick for Eric, and maybe a second for Cam, unload those two albatross contracts, get a higher draft pick with our pick, and really start to build HIS team, next year.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good speculating Rem.

 

I'm speculating no offer will be made and Eric will be told the team wants to go in a different direction.  They play it out in the media like it was the best decision for management and the player (fresh start, etc.) and boom....Eric is dealt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah Coastal that could be too.

 

Like on Pawn Stars where they always make the customer go first, Francis might ask Eric's agent, "so, Rick, what are you guys thinking is your number at this point?"

 

Then, when Staals agent says, "We're reasonable. We know the number has to come down. We can do $8 million, but we will need to keep the NTC."

 

Then, just like happens occasionally on Pawn Stars when they are just too far apart, Francis says, "You know what Rick? Eric might just get that. But it is so far from what I am thinking works for us, that I don't even want to insult you with an offer, because I really don't think we're going to make a deal, and Eric probably can get a lot more in the UFA market. Why don't we see if I can find a team that gives Eric a shot at a playoff run?".

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I don't know what RF is saying, but I think we can all say that RF is NOT JR, and RF is his own man doing things differently.  This is a good thing.

 

Didn't it seem like JR got to the point of panic mode pretty quick?   His last contracts with the team were born out of "I better give them the world because that's what we do in Raleigh."    (Semin the worst example of all, but there are others.)

 

RF is setting a new tone.  Negotiations with the team in Raleigh won't be a simple push over.  This may mean some real discomfort for everyone, including us the fans.  RF may have to let someone (E.?) walk.   Hardball is messy business.

 

We'll see...

 

So, is RF "Primeau-ing" E. and his agent?  Interesting thought, no?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact that there have been no talk on dollars or years for Eric over halfway into the season leads me to believe that the priority of him re-signing is not that high, and that the likelihood of him being traded is almost automatic.  I don't think it's even about high dollars, because he's not going to get anything over 6mil aav on a legit contender, because most of them are strapped for salary cap space.  I still believe Eric will be a Hurricane at the start of next season, but I don't think he'll be one in March.

 

I do question what will happen with Versteeg.  He has proven to be valuable asset, and with the lack of young forwards available in free agency, and the low likelihood they'd sign here, I'd imagine Francis is making extending him a priority.  Last season, RF snuck in McClement's extension without there being any previous talk of it in the media.  Hopefully he's doing that with Versteeg.  We can't trade all of our veterans, but if he's not extended he should be traded as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It appears to me that E's game is beginning to transition more to a play maker than a goal scorer. I don't see that as a problem in fact quite the opposite. I'm also not implying we don't need him to be a goal scorer but his chemistry with Versteeg and setups this season are just showing me a new side of him, a more team first kind of player. 

 

Is anyone else noticing this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It appears to me that E's game is beginning to transition more to a play maker than a goal scorer. I don't see that as a problem in fact quite the opposite. I'm also not implying we don't need him to be a goal scorer but his chemistry with Versteeg and setups this season are just showing me a new side of him, a more team first kind of player. 

 

Is anyone else noticing this?

Absolutely, over the past 15 to 20 games he seems to be "looking pass" more often. From what I heard on the radio last night, adding PDG to his line seemed to energize the whole unit; that's two lines now that PDG has had that effect on. At this rate he'll wind up on a different line every night :)

 

Mike M mentioned in particular Eric's patience in finding Versteeg for the score "at about 50 m.p.h." when everybody around them was doing 100. His wheels aren't what they used to be, but he sure used his great hands on that play, and what a finish by Steeger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes.  We were talking about that last night.  So the question is, how much is a good playmaker, who can't get going until December earliest, and has a few other warts worth?  4? 5? 6? 7?  NTC?  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 years?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes.  We were talking about that last night.  So the question is, how much is a good playmaker, who can't get going until December earliest, and has a few other warts worth?  4? 5? 6? 7?  NTC?  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 years?

 

I don't know but that kind of play should make him attractive to teams if and when we go the trade route.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know but that kind of play should make him attractive to teams if and when we go the trade route.

The rumors involving the Isles and Habs specifically have mentioned this aspect of his game, and held him out as a complementary winger on their top lines.

 

The questions wxray raises are the key, and are frankly why the poll on E's future, while interesting, can only tell us so much, as Rem pointed out in summarizing the results.

 

I think everybody on this board would take Eric back at 4 or 5 million if he's willing to adapt his game. That means being willing to play wing and letting the guys with the wheels to cover the turf required of a center do so. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is interesting that Eric is looking to set up, and that was a sweet play and he's made a couple of them.

 

(OK this is a typical bandwidth using remkin post, but I really think it's worth reading. I feel like I am at peace with where i think this Eric thing is headed, and is just makes so much sense, from my perspective anyway. As always, I could be wrong, but it just feels right to me).

 

The problem with Eric is that he has gone from a super star to an All Star, to a nice player. He better look to pick up some assists because he is on a 14 goal pace, and that is with a least one empty netter. But even with a couple of recent sweet passes, he's got one point (an assist) in his last 5 games; that would be 16 points for the season if he stayed at that pace. He is on a 47 point pace for the year and 14 goals.

 

How on Earth can a responsible GM pay him in a way that assumes more than 50 points? HIs last 3 years: 61, 54, 46. That is not trending up.

 

In my GDT post, I submit that Eric has become a nice second line center. He is a big body, he can make some plays, he seems more willing to back check, and heck, lots of players have been able to adjust their roles and extend their NHL careers. 

 

But what are the odds that that works here? And this is the rub. This sounds like the textbook description of a guy and a team that are at a perfect fork in the road. Is Eric really ready to take $5million/year, a limited or no NTC to stay here? Because 47 point, 14 goal players can be had for a lot less than that. How does that work unless Eric is just ready to accept his new role (and much lower new pay) to stay here, when somebody out there will probably seriously overpay him again?

 

The thing is, frankly, we already have 2 other second line centers. So as Top mentions, really Eric staying points to him on the wing. Really more of a second line wing. But Eric makes no secret of the fact that he sees himself as a center. We simply do not have a spot for him at center anymore. Or if we do, it means we remain without a true first line center, which few teams win without.

 

I suspect that Eric still has some left over luster that would make at least a couple of GM's want him as a rental. Right now, a first round draft pick of a bubble team and a prospect, would be very helpful in the long term plans of this team.

 

When one makes a list of things that favor a trade vs. keeping Eric, the list for trade is three times longer.

 

And even if Eric were to stay here, there are so many issues with just sign and stay, that it would seem far better to let him go. Let him play some with another team. Let the market determine his value, then see if he can still fit in here. I doubt he does to be frank, but at least then his old contract will be completely gone, and both sides get a little fresh air into the situation.

 

Eric is making some noises that he wants resolution. My guess is that Francis has a low number, maybe $5 million, and no NTC in mind, and is holding back on negotiations because they might make things worse. I think he wants to basically go into the negotiations with this:

 

"I must value your contract based on the last 3 years with increasing weight to more and more recent production. I don't frankly think you are going to sign for that. Should we even go there? This team is a long shot this year. We are looking to next year and beyond. What do you say we work on finding you a playoff run. Then, in the offseason we talk again. It may not be pretty, but maybe we can make something work."

 

But Francis doesn't want to do that while we are still "in it to win it". And of course this team refuses to drop out completely, or to keep looking like a team about to go on a sick run. We are in "long shot, but not no shot" limbo. So he waits.

 

Also, Francis is likely fielding offers. Chances are he has not gotten the right one for Eric (or Cam) or Skinner.

 

That is my take anyways. Bottom line, it is very hard to see how Eric stays here, unless he is ready to take a deep deep discount right ahead of his first shot at UFA. Seems very unlikely.

 

This really seems like a classic case of both sides benefit from a change. I would bet heavily that is what happens.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EStaal going to UFA may be an eye opening experience for him. I can see RF telling ES that he "has" to make a trade for the good of the organization, but that he wants to negotiate with him once free agency starts. The offers that ES gets may put him right back in the RF ballpark. RF can remind him that he was traded in his career too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SD, it would be very interesting to see what kind of offers E gets in UFA. If Stamkos and Ladd, and a couple of other big names get re-signed by their teams, he might benefit from a small market in "big name" forwards, that could bid his price up. That said, his stat line is really starting to speak for itself, and not in a big payday kind of way. Will someone overpay for the size, the name, the past production?

 

I can't begrudge a player for getting overpaid again, should that happen, but I do sometimes wonder if that really is the best thing for them. If someone steps up, and overbids, and Eric gets say 5 years at $7 million/year, (I am thinking he doesn't get that, but stay with me), but then goes on to be a 40 point, minus player on the decline? How ugly could that be in whatever city he ends up in?

 

Especially for a guy who has already hit payday, and will still likely clear at least $20 million more, even on a reasonable deal, maybe having a fair contract is "better" for him, than pay dirt.  Easy for me to say, but I do wonder about that.

 

One thing is for sure though. If it is the Canes who overpay him? That will be uglier than ugly for everyone. I know you read this board Ron, whatever you do...don't do that.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I won't reiterate the great points made by all in the recent posts on Staal's future.

 

I've maintained from the beginning of the year he should be evaluated only based on his potential contributions going forward.  His game has obviously declined, but not to the point of having no value to the team.

 

If GMRF can work out a deal that fairly compensates him based on his future value to the team (in a modified role), and can project that value in reasonable term, then absolutely, I can understand resigning him.

 

I'm not so sure that is going to happen, but I am fairly confident (in my opinion only) he won't be overpaid in either value or term.

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do agree Coastal. Francis has a plan. He plays it very close to the vest. So much that Eric is sweating a bit. But he has given no indication that he is deviating from his plan. He is patient and calculating. We (me for sure) want to see things happen. But he is the man with the job, the guy with the plan, and he is slowly and steadily executing it. The plan has always been about getting out from under the really big JR contracts, and none are bigger than Eric's.

 

I think he puts Eric's stats from the last three year's into a program that views the numbers without a player's name and puts them into the sort of calculation that arbitrators do, and comes up with a true value for those numbers. That is what he will pay.

 

Will Eric take it? Who knows? But it will be a massive cut. I am thinking it will be too hard to swallow.

 

I think the fact that Francis keeps putting off the negotiations, means that he does not want to float that low number while we're trying to make the playoffs, but that is pure speculation on my part. I do think that though.

 

In the end, despite my rhetorical pleas to Francis not to overpay Eric, (or Ward for that matter), I absolutely do not think he will do that. It is in some ways the exact thing he is here to NOT do.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I think the fact that Francis keeps putting off the negotiations, means that he does not want to float that low number while we're trying to make the playoffs, but that is pure speculation on my part. I do think that though.

 

 

I agree with the above 100%. Ronnie is a shrewd businessman. I believe RF does see value in E, but it is a lot lower than what is in Eric's mind. RF would love to make the playoffs but if the right offer came along he would make it in a second. RF has stated that he doesn't want to be a one year in and out team regarding the playoffs so he would give up this years chase in a heartbeat to help build the future if the right offer was there.The fact that Eric hasn't been traded to this point in my mind(probably my mind only) is that the offers have been low. If Eric isn't gone by the TD this also can be used by RF in discussing an offer with Eric. Ya know Eric teams were only willing to offer player X and X draft pick which speaks to your perceived value. The closer we get to the deadline the value can go up which is good for RF. RF isn't going to discuss a $ value with Eric at this point as Eric will go into a deep depression and no longer contribute to the chase. 

Edited by slapshot02

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not so sure moving E isnt also tied with Cam, there is 15 million or so lying on the table for immediate needs if you trade or let them walk... even if the Canes went on a 10 game win streak, made the playoffs, likely hood of surviving beyond the first 4 games is slim...and if you make E a 6 mill. deal and Cam a 4 mill, you only have 5mill to find a number one center and a top 10 goalie...I think you got em let em go, draft high and make some deals..... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not so sure moving E isnt also tied with Cam, there is 15 million or so lying on the table for immediate needs if you trade or let them walk... even if the Canes went on a 10 game win streak, made the playoffs, likely hood of surviving beyond the first 4 games is slim...and if you make E a 6 mill. deal and Cam a 4 mill, you only have 5mill to find a number one center and a top 10 goalie...I think you got em let em go, draft high and make some deals..... 

 

Personally, I don't see them being tied together. And I don't see giving Ward $4m, either.  I'm guessing if we make him an offer it's in the low to mid $3m range, at most.   

Edited by LakeLivin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think ES gets traded and RF offers 3 years @ $6m this summer. I predict that he'll sign at that number. Some veteran presence is needed and this team does not want to be the Oilers.

I think Ward is not traded because of lack of interest. He will be re-signed at 2 years @ $3m. That kicks the goalie can down the road enough to develop one of the utes.

I hate playing this game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bruce Garrioch of the Ottawa Sun:

 

Teams are still looking at Eric Staal despite the Hurricanes recent surge. No one will be surprised if he isn’t back with the Hurricanes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All sorts of things could force a team's hand.  Injuries come to mind.  If my team looks like a contender right now and I take an injury hit, what then?

 

In 2006 Weight and Recchi were high quality insurance and ended up being vital.  Even with those guys, if the playoffs had gone 5 more games we were getting so banged up it may very well have been not enough.  Dougy was down, KAdams broke his wrist in the last game and AWard was concussed (although he didn't admit it).   Look at what happened to the thin Buffalo dcorp during the ECF.

 

It's hard to last that marathon.  A contender would love to have the insurance if nothing else.  Even a non-scoring EStaal can occupy a spot defensively and possess the puck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think ES gets traded and RF offers 3 years @ $6m this summer. I predict that he'll sign at that number. Some veteran presence is needed and this team does not want to be the Oilers.

I think Ward is not traded because of lack of interest. He will be re-signed at 2 years @ $3m. That kicks the goalie can down the road enough to develop one of the utes.

I hate playing this game.

 

Since Eric doesn't show up for the first 30 games of the season, I'll go with 4 million. But then again, I don't think he will be back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's an unbiased E. Staal article that I think needs to be read, if you haven't already:

 

Staal Isn't Done Yet

 

Staal leads all Hurricane forwards in scoring chance generating plays, successful passes to the slot, controlled entries, possession driving plays, and is second in shots from the slot behind Jeff Skinner.

---------------------------------

So what is Staal at 31-years-old? It’s unlikely that he’s that franchise level first-line centre that teams are looking for, he won’t get back to his point-per-game ways, but he’s still a very, very effective forward in the NHL. Twenty goals and 50-60 points aren’t out of his reach if put in the right situation, and his ability as a playmaker is severely underrated.

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/just-how-good-is-eric-staal-right-now/

 

I think that first paragraph I quoted is pretty telling. Stats don't lie. Is he scoring like he used to in the past, no, but dang on it look at Getzlaf....lol. He is still a good player and a valuable player, just being valuable to a team in a different way and not just by scoring goals. He doesn't have to be scoring 30 goals to be a valuable player to this team.

 

I have no clue what will happen or what Francis is thinking. None of us do. But I don't look at it as Francis delaying negotiations because he is going to offer him a low amount or trying to find a trade. I really do think that Francis/Staal both wanted to see if this team can make a turn and improve. For Francis, is it time to turn the tide and let Eric go or is he still valuable to this team going forward. For Eric, does he see this team being a cup contender and making that turn to being a competitive team year in and year out. 

 

Eric has mentioned that he wants to be a part of the turn around and he wants to get this team back to the playoffs. Peters, during one of the interviews he did last week, made a comment that the team wants to stay together and do this together as a team. So he said the team was challenged and to prove that they want to be together. Well, I'd say they are making a case for themselves the last two months. Another comment that Peters made in regards to Eric was....'he is big, strong, every team needs that type of player, WE need that type of player.'

 

It seems Peters/Francis are working together to build a competitive team. If Peters feels they need Eric, are we really ones to say he doesn't belong on the team?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...