Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
AWACSooner

The great E Staal Has Been Traded Thread

Recommended Posts

I've said all season long that I 've thought he's looked as strong as ever on the puck.  Just hasn't had luck getting it in much, or maybe lost some finishing touch.  I don't think he has lost any other side of his game accept his goal total. I want him to stay if he'll take 6.5mil. Those stats above do not suprise me and I've noticed since the first game that he is usually by far the best player on the ice during his shift.  The goals just aren't adding up this year for some strange reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right now Eric is just one of the guys pulling the wagon.  His play doesn't stand out above many others, or even within the family.  

 

I love hearing crickets on this board about Jordan, his contract and package deal with Eric.  IMO Eric still should be moved by TD, even if the team is still in the hunt.  "Little" brother can stay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right now Eric is just one of the guys pulling the wagon.  His play doesn't stand out above many others, or even within the family.  

 

I love hearing crickets on this board about Jordan, his contract and package deal with Eric.  IMO Eric still should be moved by TD, even if the team is still in the hunt.  "Little" brother can stay.

 

Well . . . I guess that might depend on whether you believe that nothing matters other than scoring.  Like 2-way play or puck possession. Eric is leading the team in possession stats (Corsi %).  Do those stats really mean anything?  Consider that the Canes are just about in the middle of the league as far as overall record despite being 23rd overall in Goals For, 27th overall in Save % and 16th overall in Goals Against.  The one area where we're standing out is puck possession; the Canes are 2nd league wide as far as overall Corsi % and Eric is leading the Canes. 

 

But even if you don't believe in advanced stats, the Canes have basically 6 players who have been scoring this year (27-33 points), maybe 6.5 if you count Lindholm's 23 points.  You're right, none stand out to any great extent, but I firmly believe that without any one of those 6 players the conversation we're having would be very different as playoff hopes would be long gone by now.  We're just that thin imo, and losing anyone would likely set off a domino effect of additional overslotting.

 

Of course, I predicted a 4-1 Chicago win last night, so what do I know?  :P   

Edited by LakeLivin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I'm measuring Bill Peters hockey, those Corsi stats are the index, and you can apply it to individuals even as part of pulling a wagon to see who the lead horses are.  Also, it's become a league-wide standard of comparison.

 

We also lead the league in FO%, largely due to Jordan, which certainly drives those numbers up.  Jordan is worth his 6-mil, no complaints from me, in his new/real role as our checking line monster, with size on the wing.

 

Still a big fan of the eye test.

 

Also, I don't want to be the Oilers, Sabres, or Jackets. 

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, I don't want to be the Oilers, Sabres, or Jackets.

And this is the issue that keeps nagging at me with the possibility of ES leaving. This team is a better team with ES than it would be without. At $9M currently, I wouldn't come close to that. At the $6M for 3 years...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me it is nice to see E get some of the recognition I think he deserves. I haven't always been the biggest fan of E and have said so but over the past 2 or 3 seasons he IMO has become a true leader on the team. You don't see him making excuses and or taking shifts off. Although his scoring is down his work down low has been all you can ask for and his play-making is very evident. His biggest flaw is he hasn't lead us back to the promised land.

 

I'm not sure he is in our future but if he isn't and I were E I would evoke my NTC for one last chance to lead this team to the playoffs. One last chance to finish the year playing with J. One more chance to to succeed. That might not be the best scenario for the teams future but I wouldn't hold it against him. He has earned that right if that was what all this comes down to.

 

One thing is clear a decision on E's future needs to be made soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm with Coastal and SD, in that we can't go full blown young, i.e Oilers. Look how many #1 draft picks they have and they are still missing the playoffs year after year. Why, because they really don't have any veteran presence. It was one reason they went after Sekera as hard as they did.

 

I think most people are fed up with Staal because he's making $9M, well blame JR. When that contract was first signed there were questions about the last 2 years of that deal being so high. We knew he would be 30 heading into those last two years and that's usually when forwards start to decline a bit. Staal has been doing everything else he's supposed, the scoring is just not working for him. But you want him to contribute and be a valuable piece of the team, which he is.

 

He wants to stay here, so he probably would take a discount to stay, what that discount is, I don't know. But what if we did something like $6M with incentives? This way, he can make more, but it will be based off his play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John Shannon on Sportnet  on Eric Staal during the 2nd period intermission.

“I talked to his agent this afternoon, Rick Curran, I asked, they’re suppose to be having discussions, he and Ron Francis. They have had discussions. They will have more discussions after the Hurricanes return from this road trip. The big question is, will Staal, Eric Staal, take a hometown discount to play in Carolina? Because they are not going to pay him $9 million a year anymore.”

I'm hoping the discussion after the road trip leads to a quick decision by E and RF.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If nothing else I will simply be glad that the Staal/Ward bs discussions will come to end on or before free agency season this summer..  This has become such an overworked boring topic. Neither Staal or Ward are what they use to be and thats a fact and they are now both grossly overpaid. 

 

Gone are the days of when teams would have a starter work horse goalie starting 65-70 games who got paid a ransom amount. Its now a lot of platooning thus Ward isn't worth a penny over 3 mill a season to start 45-50 games.  He knows it and he will take the 3 mill whether its the Canes or someone else.  He has a house here and his family is here so he will take the 3 mill the Canes dangle and laugh all the way to the bank based on a 2 or maybe 3 year contract (should be a 2 yr max).

 

E Staal I hope gets moved.  This is a younger team, he's an introvert and probably can no longer relate to half the team.  Get what you can for him before he walks as a UFA. He's talented but both he and the Canes need to move on and say buh-bye. Get a mid first rounder and a 3rd line winger for him averaging 15+ goals per season.

 

Veteran leadership is way over hyped.  Give me a young hungry team any day over a "veteran, i've been there before team."  Unless you have the right organizational leadership (ie Detroit), Veterans get complacent. The Canes have yet to prove they have that organizational structure at the coaching and management level. RF is still a babe in the woods at his job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And one other rant...So the Canes are having their 10 year Cup party with a handful of Cup winners coming to town.  Great.  But how gutless of the Canes to not invite Aaron Ward who lives 15 minutes from the rink in MacGregor Downs. He scored the 1st goal in Game 7 and played a huge roll in getting the Canes the Cup.  Tough and fearless (something our current team edition knows little about). Yeah, he got arrested for allegedly getting into it with his wife who called the cops resulting in him being charged with a misdemeanor...but google him and guess what?  There has been no conviction and for all anyone knows the charges were dropped.

 

I'm a hockey fan first, Canes fan second and always will be.  Its a shame the Canes don't have more moxy to make the challenging decisions; small town vanilla mentality...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mabye the Canes know more about the Ward situation than the general public. I would think that if he actually was not invited, mabye there is a good reason. Also, how does this pertain to Staal's future with the team?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No professional team these days is going to be caught dead near someone even accused of domestic abuse. Social Media is the judge, jury and executioner these days it doesn't matter if the Canes are being level headed the media will hang them. (If that's even the reason)

 

I lean towards Aaron Ward's second tenure with the team having been left with burnt bridges. It was very clear in his on ice play he had no interest in being in Carolina when they came out terrible that year. He thought he signed with an ECF team and found out they were a dud and wanted out. He got out and played much better for the Ducks. He just happened to forget how to play hockey for 60 games with the Canes?

 

Agree with Caniac6, this has nothing to do with Staal didnt even notice what topic I walked into. Sorry for replying but I took the time to....soooo I'll keep it :D

Edited by legend-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 The Canes have yet to prove they have that organizational structure at the coaching and management level. RF is still a babe in the woods at his job.

And very honestly, I think moving E begins to establish that there's a new sheriff and deputy. I just don't see the leadership others apparently do in Eric, nor can I be as indifferent about the precipitous drop in his production or what (to my eye at least) is the numerous shifts he takes off, particularly in his own end of the rink.

 

Any org that re-signs a guy who was paid "franchise player" money to lead, to score, to make plays and to be the heart and soul of his team yet has done all of those things spottily (at best) is an org that is sending the diametrically wrong message to everyone else on the roster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With this season resuming the all too familiar "roller coaster ride" of emotional angst we Caniacs have endured since 05-06, I've invested increasing attention to our cohorts in statewide attraction, the Panthers. Thus I've perused these sites with less attention, and probably missed it, but what was the issue with J Staal this past game? As he seems in the lineup tonight, I surmise that it was a minor issue, but am I correct?

 

And to all Panther fans on here, I for one will gladly share the distinction held by our Canes of being the only professional organization in the state to hold the ultimate prize in our sport!! Go Panthers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In answer to my question above, just read Jamie Kellner's answer over on Canes corner, and seems as if nothing reported yet re:Jordan. It's postulated to be possibly "precautionary"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In answer to my question above, just read Jamie Kellner's answer over on Canes corner, and seems as if nothing reported yet re:Jordan. It's postulated to be possibly "precautionary"?

I really don't understand your Q. Was Jordan hurt in Calgary? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And very honestly, I think moving E begins to establish that there's a new sheriff and deputy. I just don't see the leadership others apparently do in Eric, nor can I be as indifferent about the precipitous drop in his production or what (to my eye at least) is the numerous shifts he takes off, particularly in his own end of the rink.

 

Any org that re-signs a guy who was paid "franchise player" money to lead, to score, to make plays and to be the heart and soul of his team yet has done all of those things spottily (at best) is an org that is sending the diametrically wrong message to everyone else on the roster.

 

I saw this come across yesterday and found it quite interesting. Why? Because I continue to see/read how people think Eric didn't do his job here because we only made the playoffs twice while he has been with the team or how he hasn't earned his pay. And because I see mention of these same names as players people  would take on their team and who I've seen mentioned (not particularly on this board) as being better players than Eric, but seeing the numbers like this, kind of makes one see that he isn't as bad as people portray him to be. I think and can understand, people being frustrated since we haven't seen playoff hockey since 2009, shoot I am, but to call out someones character or saying they are dogging it, etc, is wrong. If they were truely dogging it, ok, but it's clear Eric is not. No, the goals are not going for him, as we saw yesterday where had seriously had like 3 grand opportunities and missed on all 3, but it isn't for lack of effort or dogging it. I'm just not sure who people think can take his place if he does not return.

 

Here's a list of the Top 10 skaters from the 2003 draft class, ranked by points:

E. Staal    G-321; A-451; P-772

R.Getzlaf  G-212; A-500; P-712

T. Vanek  G-312; A-325; P-637

C. Perry   G-317; A-320; P-637

P. Bergeron G-225; A-370; P-595

Z. Parise   G-291; A-303; P-594

J. Carter   G-296; A-261; P-557

J. Pavelski  G-253; A-283; P-536

M. Richards  G-179; A-303; P-482

L. Eriksson   G-197; A-283; P-480

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I'm just not sure who people think can take his place if he does not return.

Oh, how about Victor Rask? Or Elias Lindholm? Or anybody under 30 who costs less than 9.5 million??

 

Have you looked at Eric Staal's defensive stats?

 

Pucks not going in is one thing, i.e., a slump. When it starts to span seasons, it's not a slump anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is the trend and direction of stats lately.

 

61

54

45*

 

*current projection assuming plays all 82 games this year.

 

That is the trend of Eric's point totals the last 2.4 years, and recently he has been even worse. 30 points at this point in the season is about #100 forward this year, and that's with more games played than most. He is #150 in goals for forwards.

 

Those are still ok second line numbers. But...

 

So, it's not so much would we rather have Eric, as it is, what do we pay him and can we trade him if it isn't working out. My own opinion is that he really seems to be in decline, or maybe needs a change of scenery and role to get at least somewhat back on track.

 

So if he needs a salary adjustment and role adjustment, and we can pay him even less than the market for that, how do we make that work moving forward, whatever we might debate about his past production.

 

What I am having trouble with right now is figuring out how important Eric is to our current run. Not putting up a lot of points during it.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I am having trouble with right now is figuring out how important Eric is to our current run. Not putting up a lot of points during it.

I'm guessing this is meant rhetorically, but just in case: He's played little if any role in it.

 

I'm working and so couldn't do the full-on search, but I'd be real interested to see players of the 2003 draft class ranked by point totals from 2009 on. I've got a pretty good idea of what that would show, and that's really the whole point: we're not looking at extending the 2003 Eric. We're looking at what he's done since he got his deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How important is he to the current run?

 

The "eye test" says he's a step slow to the puck when the team is swarming, turns it over a lot when the team is cycling.

 

He gets the major attention from opposing D, true, but does little to overcome it.

 

I often think to myself that he is a rally killer.

 

I have come to grips with the fact that he will not fetch anything trade-wise, and we will get nothing and like it.  And I mean that not as a joke, because nothing is better than continuing with this, it's been too long already.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If possible, imagine an impartial perspective based on this year and last season.  He's just one of the guys, no more or less.  For every plus (big body, good possession down low) there is at least 1 minus (defensive lapse, untimely penalty, misfire on shots).

 

He's a serviceable pro that fits a role, but not elite and nor worth $9M per.  This team is in the hands of many others at this point and he's not carrying anything more than the average guy.

Edited by Manwolf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The market would determine of course what the rental price would be for Eric, but a lot of what I hear supposed experts say is that he would bring anything from a nice return to a "haul". I still have to think if Sekera got us a 1st rounder and a prospect, that Eric would at least get us a first rounder.

 

Of course there is the NTC, and the optics of it, but I still wonder if this team could trade Eric and not just immediately drop out of contention. Jordan is the true first line center now, Rask is fine as the second, Nash is a bit of a drop at third, but serviceable, and McClemment is good on the 4th.

 

Plus we could try Lindholm as the #3 Center if we didn't like Nash.

 

That is what I'm kicking around. He is a 45 point guy playing lately like a 30 point guy, and while we need all the points we can get, maybe the team sans Eric would band together and surprise.

 

Sure it would hurt our chances and we would not have a cup run....

 

I don't know, I'm just kicking it around. We don't have a 45 point guy waiting in our depth chart, and if you're moving Eric do you move Versteeg too? That's too many points to lose for sure, if we are still trying to make the playoffs.

 

But a big part of me thinks Francis is still thinking at least 1-2 years out on his plan. And a big part of that plan is drafting some really nice forwards this year, and another is getting out from those Ward/Eric contracts. Three firsts (E trade plus the two we have) and compiling second and third rounders: Ward, Versteeg, JML could lead to a haul and open up other trades offseason as well as freeing up a ton of cap space.

 

I know this may seem unpopular with us in the playoff run, but Francis said as recently as a couple of weeks ago, that the plan is not just to make the playoffs one year. That was said in the context of this year.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm guessing this is meant rhetorically, but just in case: He's played little if any role in it.

 

I'm working and so couldn't do the full-on search, but I'd be real interested to see players of the 2003 draft class ranked by point totals from 2009 on. I've got a pretty good idea of what that would show, and that's really the whole point: we're not looking at extending the 2003 Eric. We're looking at what he's done since he got his deal.

If my math is right - from the 2009-2010 season through last season:

 

Getzlaf G-120; A-288; P-408
Perry G-205; A-202; P-407
Staal G-148; A-236; P-384
Pavelski G-170; A-188; P-358
Vanek G-154; A-194; P-348
Erikson G-126; A-202; P-328
Bergeron G-126; A-196; P-322
Parise G-152; A-161; P-313
Carter G-171; A-135; P-306
Richards G-100; A-161; P-261

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...