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AWACSooner

The great E Staal Has Been Traded Thread

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Watching the standings just reminds me why the team needs to stay on very high winning pace to make the playoffs. We are battling multiple other teams, and a couple of them will play at a playoff cutline pace. Meaning we must outpace them. But any one of Ottawa, Montreal, Philly or NJ could and probably will get hot. And that still means having to beat out Pittsburgh, Boston, NYI or Detroit, albiet for 3 spots. But still, that is 4 teams ahead of us.

 

At the moment, Pittsburgh is the problem. They are playing well and have 2 games in hand and the lead.

 

This does make our next game extra special important. The old 4 point swing. But also because we are forever one bad streak from dropping out of it. If we even hit 8 games back with games in hand factored in? Stick a fork in it.

 

Well Pittsburgh, if they win tonight, will be 6 points up with a game in hand. If they beat NYR tonight, and then us Friday, they will have gone up 8 points and THEY will have the game in hand. Then it will depend on Boston and Detroit. If they win their next two, we are pretty close to done.

 

If NYR take out Pittsburgh tonight, and we beat them Friday, we are effectively 3 points out. (games in hand factored in).

 

HUGE swing.

 

The schedule does give us a shot though: Pittsburgh is playing a murder's row over the next 5 with one exception, and the NYI, who we play Saturday, play the Kings before that.

 

A little help and a weekend sweep puts us right in the middle of it.

 

Really need the Rangers to win tonight, then take the weekend.

Edited by remkin

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Pittsburgh is 4 pts up with 2 games in hand.  Boston is 5 up with a game in hand.  Pittsburgh plays the Rangers tonight, so that 4 pts could change. 

 

I see the Canes as an effective 6 pts back right about now.  Unless they go 2-0-0 this weekend, I think it's fat lady singing time, or at least fat lady warming up time. 

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from yesterday

 

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie 18h18 hours ago

Rick Curran, agent for Eric Staal (and Cam Ward), met with CAR GM Ron Francis today but it's status quo, as in all options remain on table.

 

As long as CAR remains in battle for playoff spot, difficult to chart a course vis a vis future of Staal et al.

 

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Unless they go 2-0-0 this weekend, I think it's fat lady singing time, or at least fat lady warming up time. 

 

 

from yesterday: As long as CAR remains in battle for playoff spot, difficult to chart a course vis a vis future of Staal et al.

 

Without a regulation sweep this weekend, I think the plane to various NHL markets, loaded with our UFAs, begins to taxi. 

 

Even with two wins this weekend, as others have pointed out, there will still be zero margin for error. If we lose more than two games between now and the TD, gas 'er up and file the flight plan, Ridley.

 

And let me just add: IF we're out of it and Eric THEN agrees to a big enough cut that we can afford to keep him, AND we do--shame on us. These next 10 games are where Captains earn their letters. If we're out of it and Eric is willing to "sell low" just to avoid moving, we've got to be crazy to buy in to any claim that he "wants to be part of the solution."

 

If that's really true Eric, here's your chance.

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Boom he shoots he scores!

I agree with Top-Shelf often, I couldn't have said this better myself.

 

 

 

And let me just add: IF we're out of it and Eric THEN agrees to a big enough cut that we can afford to keep him, AND we do--shame on us. These next 10 games are where Captains earn their letters. If we're out of it and Eric is willing to "sell low" just to avoid moving, we've got to be crazy to buy in to any claim that he "wants to be part of the solution."

 

If that's really true Eric, here's your chance.

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So Francis met with Eric and Cam's agent, and......nothing. I know they don't want to negotiate in public, but they must be at least hinting at number?

 

I have to think Francis is forming some theoretical lines in the sand, while talking w/ other GM's all the time.

 

Most likely a 0-2 weekend would trigger something. Most likely a 2-0 week end will tie his hands longer. 1-1? Who knows?

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Before the break I read Francis saying something like there is time before trade deadline and no need to rush. His mantra is also a deal has to make sense.  He strikes me as more a chess player than a poker player, always thinking two moves ahead. There are so many variables in the Staal situation it is hard to predict the best move. If we are truly in the playoff hunt it will be very difficult to move E and give up a chance to rebuild that competitive atmosphere in the locker room. It has to be difficult for a young player to think two years down the road when the prize is within sight. 

 

I trust we will have a clearer picture after this weekend.

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I think RF is just trying to drive up Eric's worth.  He's showing the benefit of having a guy like Staal could improve a team's chances of success, but the odds of Carolina making the playoffs are so slim even with Eric, that it's not worth leaving prospects and picks on the table over renting him out for two months.  Eric is just too streaky to rely on anyways.  When was the last game he scored a goal?  

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Oh, how about Victor Rask? Or Elias Lindholm? Or anybody under 30 who costs less than 9.5 million??

 

Have you looked at Eric Staal's defensive stats?

 

Pucks not going in is one thing, i.e., a slump. When it starts to span seasons, it's not a slump anymore.

Neither is ready next year to take on that role. Rask was good there for a bit, but then he started to regress, hence why he was moved off and now centering Skinner. Lindholm is clearly not ready. Peters already alluded to that fact when he said that Lindholm came into the league too soon. Peters said he is just now 'getting it', that's not someone you throw into a 1st line center role.

 

So again, who do we have to take that role? 

 

Also, we aren't talking about Eric at $9M so we can stop referring to his current salary b/c that won't be his salary come July 1st.

Edited by caniac247

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So Francis met with Eric and Cam's agent, and......nothing. I know they don't want to negotiate in public, but they must be at least hinting at number?

 

I have to think Francis is forming some theoretical lines in the sand, while talking w/ other GM's all the time.

 

Most likely a 0-2 weekend would trigger something. Most likely a 2-0 week end will tie his hands longer. 1-1? Who knows?

 

It's going to be a different realm with Francis. JR used media to leak stuff. Francis keeps everything close to his chest, hence Francis being known as 'Fort Knox'. 

 

The deadline is what 3 weeks away. They can't still be sitting status quo as Curran says. I think Francis may have a lockdown on any information getting leaked.

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Neither is ready next year to take on that role. Rask was good there for a bit, but then he started to regress, hence why he was moved off and now centering Skinner. Lindholm is clearly not ready. Peters already alluded to that fact when he said that Lindholm came into the league too soon. Peters said he is just now 'getting it', that's not someone you throw into a 1st line center role.

 

So again, who do we have to take that role? 

 

Also, we aren't talking about Eric at $9M so we can stop referring to his current salary b/c that won't be his salary come July 1st.

Rask was moved because Eric is convinced he is something he is not, a center. So RF basically said, "Okay, show me how you're more effective in the middle." If you are seriously saying Rask regressed, I sure hope you can explain why Eric has only 12 points since Rask went to the third line, but had 18 when they were playing together. AND, how it is that Rask has more total points (31) than Eric (30) despite playing 2 less games and averaging three minutes less ice time per night?

 

E is being given every opportunity to put his money (and there's soooo much) where his mouth is. Even so, he's only playing center (i.e., taking face-offs) sometimes, because Lindy is now taking the ones on Eric's off-side, since E can't win them over there. (In your references to BP's comments about Lindy, you left out where he said, "We need to get him [Lindy] back to center pretty soon here." That was about three weeks ago, after which BP began doing what I just noted, giving Lindy face-offs on E's off-side.)

 

So essentially, the two guys you say "aren't ready" have taken turns propping up Eric's play all year. Either of them would be as good as Eric has been, and given their ages, they could be better very soon and for a long time to come.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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It's going to be a different realm with Francis. JR used media to leak stuff. Francis keeps everything close to his chest, hence Francis being known as 'Fort Knox'. 

 

The deadline is what 3 weeks away. They can't still be sitting status quo as Curran says. I think Francis may have a lockdown on any information getting leaked.

 

Bingo.  And I like it. 

 

Sure, it was fun to scurry around the rumors that JR let leak.   But RF's style has the potential to serve the team very well, if done correctly.  Just not fun for us -- until the trade finally happens (or doesn't).

Edited by wxray1

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Francis does play it very close. But Eric's agent (I think) had said no numbers were discussed at one point I thought. Not this time, but last go around.

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if they have talked, they have discussed numbers. The only way they haven't is if RF is just stonewalling and refusing to negotiate, which I doubt if he is thinking of requesting that ES waives his NTC.

Edited by super_dave_1

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My thoughts on Eric's desire to be part of this team in the future. If that is what he really wanted, then we would have seen 06 Eric rather than the continued declining effectiveness we have been watching for so many seasons.

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While I truly get the angst on these boards, directed at # 12, and I routinely scream out at him, live at PNC or on TV, the truth be known that our collective frustrations for this team's post-season playoff drought, mounting since 05-06, save for the one year, are hughly directed at Eric Staal. Now, while I don't think there is much debate that this player has statistically under produced relative to his pay, despite the oft used cliché "he didn't set his salary", still his scoring prowess and on ice demeanor are central factors in our collective displeasure.

 

Having said all that, I've got to disagree with the above thought from winger52, which to me questions either Eric's sincerity or veracity, when he states that he'd like to "be a part of this teams future", ergo, why the "declining effectiveness"? Let me be clear in this thought. No one, and I repeat, not a single one of us here have euphemistically "walked in Eric's shoes". Yes, I'll concede that there are probably many athletically inclined among us posters, and also a few who've played this sport, and have overcome serious sports injuries, however, we collectively cannot know the physical, psychological or emotional toll that ES has suffered through the years. Looking back, I am convinced that Eric has never completely recovered from that knee-to knee collision he suffered in the off season several years ago. Why, I certainly can't say. Should he have, I think so. But the fact remains, he has never been the same.

 

Now, where is this going? Am I excusing away his declining APPEARING play, NO WAY. But, what I am arguing is that it is somewhat of an injustice to assert that if Eric was being honest in his statements, his play should improve. Also, we have no way to truly judge Eric's value to this team!!

 

Now, the one comfort I take in all this, and I've maintained this for quite some time, is that we have a GM uniquely positioned to see the entirety of this player's worth plus know from personal interaction as a teammate, where Eric's situation is heading. 

Edited by KJUNKANE

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While I truly get the angst on these boards, directed at # 12, and I routinely scream out at him, live at PNC or on TV, the truth be known that our collective frustrations for this team's post-season playoff drought, mounting since 05-06, save for the one year, are hughly directed at Eric Staal. Now, while I don't think there is much debate that this player has statistically under produced relative to his pay, despite the oft used cliché "he didn't set his salary", still his scoring prowess and on ice demeanor are central factors in our collective displeasure.

 

Having said all that, I've got to disagree with the above thought from winger52, which to me questions either Eric's sincerity or veracity, when he states that he'd like to "be a part of this teams future", ergo, why the "declining effectiveness"? Let me be clear in this thought. No one, and I repeat, not a single one of us here have euphemistically "walked in Eric's shoes". Yes, I'll concede that there are probably many athletically inclined among us posters, and also a few who've played this sport, and have overcome serious sports injuries, however, we collectively cannot know the physical, psychological or emotional toll that ES has suffered through the years. Looking back, I am convinced that Eric has never completely recovered from that knee-to knee collision he suffered in the off season several years ago. Why, I certainly can't say. Should he have, I think so. But the fact remains, he has never been the same.

 

Now, where is this going? Am I excusing away his declining APPEARING play, NO WAY. But, what I am arguing is that it is somewhat of an injustice to assert that if Eric was being honest in his statements, his play should improve. Also, we have no way to truly judge Eric's value to this team!!

 

Now, the one comfort I take in all this, and I've maintained this for quite some time, is that we have a GM uniquely positioned to see the entirety of this player's worth plus know from personal interaction as a teammate, where Eric's situation is heading. 

 

I also agree that there is a basic assumption that Eric can do better and is choosing not to.  While it might be true he could prepare better in the offseason, might be true he could train harder during the season, might be true he doesn't give 100% on any given day, it is also possible that he is giving his best and this is all there is.

 

So questioning his will, i.e. if he really wanted to stay he would score twice as many goals for example, is likely unfair.

 

I often think "why doesn't he shoot 1000 pucks a day to refine his sniping ability" but maybe he does this already, and this is all there is.  I could certainly work 24 hours a day on my shot and probably never get as good as he is.

 

In the end, all that matters is where his skill/effort level is in reality and if it fits the team concept moving forward.  Nothing more. nothing less.

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I also agree that there is a basic assumption that Eric can do better and is choosing not to.  While it might be true he could prepare better in the offseason, might be true he could train harder during the season, might be true he doesn't give 100% on any given day, it is also possible that he is giving his best and this is all there is.

 

So questioning his will, i.e. if he really wanted to stay he would score twice as many goals for example, is likely unfair.

 

I often think "why doesn't he shoot 1000 pucks a day to refine his sniping ability" but maybe he does this already, and this is all there is.  I could certainly work 24 hours a day on my shot and probably never get as good as he is.

 

In the end, all that matters is where his skill/effort level is in reality and if it fits the team concept moving forward.  Nothing more. nothing less.

 

Thanks hag, you and Kjun saved me some typing. I also don't get why people assume that any athlete who isn't performing up to expectations could do better if they just cared more/ tried harder (unless said pro athlete's name rhymes with "hem in").  In fact, in some cases an athlete can hinder his performance by pressing too much.  I'm of the belief that that was a contributing factor that hindered Ward when he was at his worst a couple of years ago.

 

The one thing I'd add to your last sentence is:

"In the end, all that matters is where his skill/effort level is in reality and if it fits the team concept moving forward and if he'll accept a contract that reflects that assessment .  Nothing more. nothing less."

Edited by LakeLivin

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I also agree that there is a basic assumption that Eric can do better and is choosing not to.  ....., it is also possible that he is giving his best and this is all there is.

 

In the end, all that matters is where his skill/effort level is in reality and if it fits the team concept moving forward.  Nothing more. nothing less.

+1  IMO the likely reality is WYSIWYG.  I'm with Coastal (trusting in RF) and Lake (and pay accordingly).

 

I need to go rest now since I've never agreed more with so many....

 

Kidding aside, I'll be away this weekend and missing both games, including TV.  Please help me with some vivid messaging over in GDT vs Pens and Isles.

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+1  IMO the likely reality is WYSIWYG.  I'm with Coastal (trusting in RF) and Lake (and pay accordingly).

 

I need to go rest now since I've never agreed more with so many....

 

Kidding aside, I'll be away this weekend and missing both games, including TV.  Please help me with some vivid messaging over in GDT vs Pens and Isles.

If that assumption is out there, blame John Forslund. That being said, we've all seen Eric's "extra gear" in past seasons, even if it has been less frequent. This is the first year it hasn't shown up (to my eye) and that leads me to think this may well be all there is.

 

I've always believed Eric (1) caught lightning in a bottle with exactly the right mix of guys in order to have the success he had early in his career, (2) was vastly over-rewarded for that success by a Cup-drunk, marketing-centric JR, and (3) that the C has been a hindrance to his career, not a help.

 

What I keep coming back to, whenever I hear that talks have occurred and things are status quo, is that, as Rem said, some number surely gets put on the table. Unless...

 

From the org's perspective, you obviously don't want to insult the guy, but if you're RF, how do you not say, "Eric, I'd extend you right now at $5 million for the next three years" - IF you are sure you want to extend him? Similar wise, from E's perspective, when I hear the situation not being resolved might be weighing on him, I wonder why wouldn't he say to Curran, "Rick, I'm authorizing you to go to RF right now and say I'll take $6 million to stay" - IF he truly wants to stick around.

 

The numbers are just there as placeholders; my point is that I think we can safely conclude that at least one and quite possibly both parties are not fully "sold" on Eric being here after this season, at any price. We can debate why all day, but I think that much is pretty hard to dispute when you're two weeks from the TD, a few points from the wild card, and nothing has gotten done. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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