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The great E Staal Has Been Traded Thread

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We don't know what discussions RF has had with any suitors. Perhaps Ronnie isn't being offered what he thinks he should get. Teams view their No1.draft picks like gold these days.http://mynhltraderumors.com/dan-hamhuis-dennis-wideman-rental-prices-waivers/2016/02/11/

 

I'm not saying they're wrong, but I bet that Western Conference Exec. was a buyer, not a seller.

Edited by remkin

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So the reality of Eric is continued decline. So why would you expect improvement just because he has a new contract? And if he has a new contract given this level or worse, how does that help the team move forward? If the commitment is to rebuild, do we need a place holder at any price? 

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It's a fair point though that a new contract is not likely to improve his play level.  Only argument is more relaxed could possibly improve play.  More likely is more relaxed looks like less effort.

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I think the key is that Francis evaluates him entirely on what he is, not what he used to be, or possibly might be. That is key. The future is for young guns still on the upslope of their careers. Eric now has the better part of three seasons where he is a 50 point, at best 20 goal player.

 

This is the key problem. Eric Staal, for the better part of the last 3 seasons, is at best, a 50 point player. Now this is still a good player. But the problem is value. Will Eric agree to sign for what he is really worth to us?

 

Here is a list of the guys who put up around 50 points last year. In sequence from around 47 to 53 points, and their average yearly salary in millions:

 

Okposo: $4.5/Hornqvist: $4.5 million/R.Strome (entry)/Simmonds $4.3/Zuccarello: $4.5 million/Toffoli (entry: $2.6)/Schiefle (entry)/Bozak: $4.3 million/Desharnais: $3.5/Filppula: $5.2/Little: $4.75/Saad: $6.0/Hoffman (entry)/M.Johansen (entry), Gallagher: $4.0 million.

 

Taking out the entry level guys, and the "struck it rich UFA, cup winning, young Saad", the average price paid for around 50 points:

 

$4.4 million

 

Far less than Jordan makes, who btw is now seriously outplaying Eric too.

 

Eric Staal, statistically speaking, should not make over $5 million/year. Anything much over $5.0 million runs the risk of him being nearly untradable due to salary. And if we are to get the value end after overpaying him for years, his deal should be around $4.5 million/year.

 

How many are thinking $4.5 million/year gets Eric? or is a fair price for him? I would argue it is the safe number.

 

The two outliers on the "overpaid" side were Filppula and Saad. Both timed the UFA market and got "overpaid".

 

If anything, what Filppula and Saad got would drive up the value in Eric and his agent's mind since Eric probably would get over $5 million as a UFA, due to supply and demand. Supply is limited in the "good player" UFA market. But that does not make him worth that much to us.

 

But the question is what is he really worth (and worth to us)? If you give him a few points for upside, as a guy who has put up a ppg as recently as a few years ago, he is at most worth $4.5 to 5million/year based on the numbers above. And that is high end of the range.

 

Will he take that? Who knows, but I tend to doubt it. I think Francis knows that, and realizes that he will not sign Eric. But w/ the playoffs still in range, he is waiting to see if he can trade him or not.

Edited by remkin

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I'm not saying they're wrong, but I bet that Western Conference Exec. was a buyer, not a seller.

I agree,but the point is that teams are very reluctant giving up No 1 draft picks causing issues for the sellers and buyers. In today's cap environment teams are looking to develop their younger talent and spend less on buying.

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rem, thanks for your thoughts, and now let me put a little different spin on them, presupposing that I have as much insight into this player's mindset as a blind man in a stampede.

 

My 1st thought, right or wrong, is that Eric has always projected a strong family alliance. He and his family APPEAR to have quietly become an integral part of his community, and his kids likely have deep attachments to the area, ones that you'd think would be a major factor in movement.

 

2nd, Eric , thanks to a generous, cup intoxicated GM, has MADE megabucks! And along the way, actually prematurely early, he achieved the epitome in his sport.

 

From the above considerations, I'm going to hazard a guess that the overriding issue to him likely will be term, rather than the bucks! To most of us, that thought is tantamount to heresy, but let me go one step further here and suggest that what I would guess would be more meaningful to Eric, at this stage in his career, rather than the individual glory, would be to share that glory with his brother!!

 

Now, what I'm unsure of is which is harder for RF to yield ground on, Term or Money? If this player's abilities are fading like they appear to be, term may be the ultimate issue. If, on the other hand PK is aiming to curtail expenses, than the money becomes paramount, particularly if RF has free agency plans for the off season.

 

Then, the continuance of a NTC enters the picture, and I'd imagine this has to be curtailed to at least a limited list to be equitable to both sides.

 

After all this is JMHO

Edited by KJUNKANE

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I agree,but the point is that teams are very reluctant giving up No 1 draft picks causing issues for the sellers and buyers. In today's cap environment teams are looking to develop their younger talent and spend less on buying.

 

I do get the sense that some very prominent GM's are publicly eschewing rentals. I do think that there is a growing tendency not to give up first rounders too. BUT, when push comes to shove, and you are the GM and your job hangs in the balance, and making the playoffs now matters way more to most GM's than making it in two years, there will be first rounders moving. Maybe not many, but one or two.

 

Ladd would get one if he remains unsigned, and I still tend to think Eric would get one. And the more guys that sign back with their teams, the higher the price goes for the remaining available rentals.

 

Just my opinion though. I could very well be wrong. With Eric it could be tough too because, like Whitney, he could block the one deal where a first rounder is on the table. 

Edited by remkin

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rem, thanks for your thoughts, and now let me put a little different spin on them, presupposing that I have as much insight into this player's mindset as a blind man in a stampede.

 

My 1st thought, right or wrong, is that Eric has always projected a strong family alliance. He and his family APPEAR to have quietly become an integral part of his community, and his kids likely have deep attachments to the area, ones that you'd think would be a major factor in movement.

 

2nd, Eric , thanks to a generous, cup intoxicated GM, has MADE megabucks! And along the way, actually prematurely early, he achieved the epitome in his sport.

 

From the above considerations, I'm going to hazard a guess that the overriding issue to him likely will be term, rather than the bucks! To most of us, that thought is tantamount to heresy, but let me go one step further here and suggest that what I would guess would be more meaningful to Eric, at this stage in his career, rather than the individual glory, would be to share that glory with his brother!!

 

Now, what I'm unsure of is which is harder for RF to yield ground on, Term or Money? If this player's abilities are fading like they appear to be, term may be the ultimate issue. If, on the other hand PK is aiming to curtail expenses, than the money becomes paramount, particularly if RF has free agency plans for the off season.

 

Then, the continuance of a NTC enters the picture, and I'd imagine this has to be curtailed to at least a limited list to be equitable to both sides.

 

After all this is JMHO

 

All good thoughts to be sure. On term, the NTC becomes more and more important. Term means Eric will get paid, even if his skills drop off even more. But the NTC waive at least allows that underproduction to be moved somewhere else.

 

But my point is the possible massive gap in each side's expectations. My list was to suggest that simply based on his most recent 2.5 years of production, an arbitrator would likely put his value at around $4.5 million. Now, here is where I am speculating wildly, but I'm pretty sure Eric would be taken back by an offer that tries to get to $4.5 million (have to offer $4 million).

 

Do we go much higher? Term is supposed to come with LOWER salary. Thus if we give him 5 years, he should take $4.25 million average. I am guessing that Eric would be outright offended by such an offer.

 

Maybe if we front load it, so it feels more gradual.....

 

I may be wrong. Maybe Eric really really wants to stay, and maybe money is not an issue. Maybe he'd take a drastic paycut just ahead of a chance to get overpaid, again, in UFA. Maybe.

Edited by remkin

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...but I'm pretty sure Eric would be taken back by an offer that tries to get to $4.5 million (have to offer $4 million).

 

Do we go much higher? Term is supposed to come with LOWER salary. Thus if we give him 5 years, he should take $4.25 million average. I am guessing that Eric would be outright offended by such an offer.

If he wants to remain here, he'll have to get beyond that. RF isn't going to stroke him a check for more than his production dictates. Some GM will go beyond that, but if he wants to remain here, it is what it is. Ya'll don't go gettin' yer panties in a wad if he gets some form of NTC with a deal like that.

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I will throw this out there. It is a bit romantic really, in this day and age of professional athlete's very ego tied up in their pay, but it could be a brilliant move by Eric to take whatever he can get from Francis.

 

Eric has grossed over $71 million so far w/ the Canes.

 

If he gets 5 years at $5.5 million from some other team he will hit: $98.5 million

 

If he gets 5 years with us at $4.5 million he will hit: $93.5 million.

 

The $5 million difference is gross. Probably less than $3 million net.

 

 

But think of how great it would be for his image. The guy who took a big discount to keep playing in Raleigh. The guy who, yes, his skills have declined, but he is worth his pay and helps the team win. The guy who put his team ahead of pay. And if he regains some form the guy who is underpaid and a great value but never complains. If we win another cup, he would be THE man of the history of this franchise, especially in Raleigh. The amount of goodwill this city would have for him would swell to bursting.

 

 

As an aside, if Eric took the big pay cut, I would be fine with some sort of limited NTC.

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Well discount is a relative term. I think the argument could be made, (actually was just made) that $4.4 million or above is really not a discount.

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Wow, some really good points by all.  Kjun, even though we all think about the brother angle, that is a really interesting take.

 

Rem, +1 on the public goodwill supposition.  Only the most bitter haters would come out against that.  And really, if he has pretty much lost half of his game, he is going to get hammered no matter where he goes.  So this could be a real consideration.   

 

It would be really cool to actually know what Eric is really thinking.

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Wow, some really good points by all.  Kjun, even though we all think about the brother angle, that is a really interesting take.

 

Rem, +1 on the public goodwill supposition.  Only the most bitter haters would come out against that.  And really, if he has pretty much lost half of his game, he is going to get hammered no matter where he goes.  So this could be a real consideration.   

 

It would be really cool to actually know what Eric is really thinking.

Yup, and this is exactly why I question the depth of (1) Eric's desire to be part of the solution, and (2) RF's interest in keeping him.

 

As I posted on the previous page, even from our out-of-the-loop vantage point, this much is obvious: one (and quite possibly both) parties is less than 100 percent sure that Eric being here next season is what's in their best interests. Otherwise, with the team still in the mix and the TD two weeks away, there'd have been a deal by now.  

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Based on the tone of what I'm hearing I'd be surprised if the brother issue carries much weight in Es decision.  Now Es immediate family staying in Raleigh might be a different story . . .

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Nothing last forever.  Move him if you can.  Canes are rebuilding, get a mid to late 1st round pick and a solid 3rd line grinder for him who can chip in with 10-15 goals and will drop the mitts when needed.  By the time this team is ready to be a top ten in the NHL which is still two full seasons away Eric will be at the end of his journey and worth little.  Sentimentality should have no place in pro sports where the only goal is to be the best.

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Contract wise, I'd like to see more performance laden ones.

Base $3-4mil.

Score 25 goals= $1mil. Score 50 goals= $2mil.

Score 30 assists= $1mil. Score 60 assists= $2mil.

Lead team to playoffs= $1mil.

Lead team to ECF= $1.5mil.

Lead team to SCF= $2mil.

Win SC= $3mil.

 

Wonder if something like this would light a fire under Eric?

Edited by hopper915

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Montreal announced that Price is done for the year, so I would bet they would not still be considering Staal. Mabye Ward.

 

Where'd you see this? Every report I've seen is that they've denied this report.

Though it wouldn't surprise me if they did shut him down for this season. No sense risking further setback considering how important he is to their organization.

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/montreal-canadiens-carey-price-still-working-toward-comeback/c-278719876?tid=277567792

Edited by hopper915

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Last night was the final straw for me. Something is wrong with Eric. Is he injured? If so, let us know. Is he sulking? Kind of starting to wonder.

 

What we are seeing now is NOT 45-50 point Eric Staal. What we are seeing is 15 point Eric Staal.

 

Right when the team needs him more than any time in recent memory, his is MIA, utterly invisible. 

 

 

Just yesterday I pined for Eric to take a major paycut. But if this is a sign of things to come, the time has come to move him on. And if he's sulking as the team has a shot at the playoffs? Do we want to sign him at any cost?

 

Again, if he's injured, and it comes out he's playing through something, fine, but assuming that's not the case, this seems to be the very definition of the term "both sides would benefit from a move", change of scenery for Eric, and return for us.

 

The longer we wait, the less he's worth in a trade.

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Last night was the final straw for me. Something is wrong with Eric. Is he injured? If so, let us know. Is he sulking? Kind of starting to wonder.

 

What we are seeing now is NOT 45-50 point Eric Staal. What we are seeing is 15 point Eric Staal.

 

Right when the team needs him more than any time in recent memory, his is MIA, utterly invisible. 

 

 

Just yesterday I pined for Eric to take a major paycut. But if this is a sign of things to come, the time has come to move him on. And if he's sulking as the team has a shot at the playoffs? Do we want to sign him at any cost?

 

Again, if he's injured, and it comes out he's playing through something, fine, but assuming that's not the case, this seems to be the very definition of the term "both sides would benefit from a move", change of scenery for Eric, and return for us.

 

The longer we wait, the less he's worth in a trade.

 

If he's injured, he's been injured since opening night. :lol:

All joking aside now.

His play reminds me of when the Canes traded Cole to Edmonton. He pouted, sulked and was all around horrible the first half of the season. Then the Canes were able to trade to get Cole back and bam! Staal was happy and tearing things up.

I think it has finally dawned on him that he can't bully to get his way with the organization. That RF has a plan for the future and it really does not include him.

Edited by hopper915

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On trading Ward to Montreal, at this point I would like to see them bring him back. Similar deal to Lack's and they can continue to compete for the #1 goaltending job. I'm not sold on Lack yet, and he has never had the pressure of being the clear #1 goaltender for any team with no safety net. Cam did that for years with the Justin Peters of the world for a backup. Neither have been completely consistent this year, but I think Cam has been the more consistent of the two.

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I wonder what Montreal might pay for Ward?

 

A first rounder and SOLD!

 

Why? Because it is very unlikely that Ward fits into their plans next year, and if we really want him we can try to win him back offseason, and a number one pick would be a very very big return from a team that might very well miss the playoffs anyways.

 

That said, they won't offer that. But then, what about Ward AND Eric? First round pick plus more...

 

 

Edit: Looking at the standing MTL is below us. Can't believe they would rent a guy. If they would? Oh boy (wringing hands) let's deal.

 

There is a very good chance that even with Ward and Eric, Montreal misses the playoffs, and that could be a top 10 pick. No way they'd be that dumb though.

Edited by remkin

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