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The great E Staal Has Been Traded Thread

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  Could some of the older players become more inclined towards "protecting" themselves a bit more? E.g., someone like Versteeg, Hainsey, or Liles from the perspective of saving on wear and tear with regard to the rest of their careers, even if not with Carolina? Or even someone like Faulk or J STaal, might they shift the balance in avoiding injury vs. maximizing effort as much as possible right now? Which one could argue is more important to the team's future the same way as getting max return on the UFAs is.   

 

I hope that the thought of protecting themselves doesn't even enter their mind. The second you start thinking like that is the time you will get hurt. Being passive is the time you will get planted.

Edited by slapshot02

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After watching last night, are we really that much worse off without E? I guess some guys will ultimately be overslotted, so that could hurt production. But damn, he's a ghost out there at this point.

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He just seems that his heart isn't in it right now. I'm not saying he has laid down, but suppose a blunt and straight to the point RF has told him that he doesn't see a way that the team is going to resign him over the summer. I don't care how professional a player is, that has to hurt.

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  Could some of the older players become more inclined towards "protecting" themselves a bit more? E.g., someone like Versteeg, Hainsey, or Liles from the perspective of saving on wear and tear with regard to the rest of their careers, even if not with Carolina? Or even someone like Faulk or J STaal, might they shift the balance in avoiding injury vs. maximizing effort as much as possible right now? Which one could argue is more important to the team's future the same way as getting max return on the UFAs is.   

 

I hope that the thought of protecting themselves doesn't even enter their mind. The second you start thinking like that is the time you will get hurt. Being passive is the time you will get planted.

 

 

I completely agree.  But there's a middle ground between being passive and not going all out.  Like giving up your body to block a hard shot late in a close game.  Or not spending quite as much time in the slot with a d-man hammering away at you.  It's the difference between "playoff intensity" versus what you see during most of the regular season.  I didn't mean to imply that anyone would become passive, just that there's the possibly they might dial it down a notch (or fail to turn it up a notch).

Edited by LakeLivin

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Let it weigh on him. His poor play has weighed on this franchise for three years and then some, while he's raked in over 18 million.

 

You might also want to check this site. It shows Eric has two points in his last 12 games (dating back to Jan 14, one full month), and only 10 since his two-goal game against NJ (Dec. 29).

 

Eric's house, wife and kids are not RF's responsibility, but I've got a feeling they're not wanting for anything.

 

Eric's a big boy. To get payed like one, you gotta play like one.

I know you dislike Eric, but you need to put your bias aside for a second. It doesn't matter if you are an athlete or an every day joe, not knowing, weighs on you. What if your boss came to you and said "so TS, we might transfer you in a month, where, we aren't sure, or we might decide to keep you in this office, but at a significant pay cut", that *edit* will weigh on you, the unknown, especially if you are the provider of your family.

 

My fiancee does contract work and whenever his contract is a few months from being up, he starts to stress on whether it will get renewed or if he should start looking for new work. It's life, the uncertainity of where you'll go or be is stressful, it's human nature.

 

And his actions today lead me to believe something is up. He came out for practice early taking shots on Ward. And then when the rest of the team left, he stayed out on the ice by himself. Something is going through his head and yes can affect his play. They keep saying the unknown isn't a bother, but it clearly is. A decision needs to be made NOW. They either re-sign him or he/the team go different routes. Sign now, or trade, none of this trade and re-sign July.

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I know you dislike Eric, but you need to put your bias aside for a second. It doesn't matter if you are an athlete or an every day joe, not knowing, weighs on you. What if your boss came to you and said "so TS, we might transfer you in a month, where, we aren't sure, or we might decide to keep you in this office, but at a significant pay cut", that *edit* will weigh on you, the unknown, especially if you are the provider of your family.

 

My fiancee does contract work and whenever his contract is a few months from being up, he starts to stress on whether it will get renewed or if he should start looking for new work. It's life, the uncertainity of where you'll go or be is stressful, it's human nature.

 

And his actions today lead me to believe something is up. He came out for practice early taking shots on Ward. And then when the rest of the team left, he stayed out on the ice by himself. Something is going through his head and yes can affect his play. They keep saying the unknown isn't a bother, but it clearly is. A decision needs to be made NOW. They either re-sign him or he/the team go different routes. Sign now, or trade, none of this trade and re-sign July.

 

I never got the idea that top "dislikes Eric", myself.

 

I understand what you're saying, but there's a significant difference between the "every day joe" and an athlete who is paid at an elite level. If I was a contractor and the end of my contract was approaching, I'd be somewhat more concerned about what my next step should be if I were making $50,000 a year than I would be if I were making, say, $9 million a year.

 

Also, even while your fiance (fiancee is the feminine) is worrying about whether he should look for a new job as a contract is coming to a close, I can't imagine that the customer is saying "it's okay if you don't meet your deadlines now. We know you're under stress because the contract's ending and we'll cut you some slack." Contract status isn't gonna change the expectation of doing the job.

 

In E.'s defense, he has about as many points in calendar year 2016 as does Justin Faulk, and we don't have people calling for trading Faulk away (people have brought it up, but only coincidentally, not in the "he's not helping us, so he should be gone" sense). E. also is contributing to the high levels of puck possession for the Hurricanes, which is a good thing because the more the 'canes possess the puck, the less time the opponents have to run their offense.

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I know you dislike Eric, but you need to put your bias aside for a second. It doesn't matter if you are an athlete or an every day joe, not knowing, weighs on you. What if your boss came to you and said "so TS, we might transfer you in a month, where, we aren't sure, or we might decide to keep you in this office, but at a significant pay cut", that *edit* will weigh on you, the unknown, especially if you are the provider of your family.

 

My fiancee does contract work and whenever his contract is a few months from being up, he starts to stress on whether it will get renewed or if he should start looking for new work. It's life, the uncertainity of where you'll go or be is stressful, it's human nature.

 

And his actions today lead me to believe something is up. He came out for practice early taking shots on Ward. And then when the rest of the team left, he stayed out on the ice by himself. Something is going through his head and yes can affect his play. They keep saying the unknown isn't a bother, but it clearly is. A decision needs to be made NOW. They either re-sign him or he/the team go different routes. Sign now, or trade, none of this trade and re-sign July.

(1) I don't dislike Eric. I absolutely abhor his contract.

(2) Comparing your fiancee's situation to Eric's might seem fair at first blush since both have contracts. But is your fiancee making $9.5 million this year? Has he made $58 million over the last seven years? I'm thinking no.

 

Playing in the NHL includes an implicit expectation that when you're about to become a UFA, particularly when you're over 30, this can happen. So to me, saying the organization has a responsibility to clarify Eric's future now rather than expecting it to leverage the looming TD to whatever benefit it can is unrealistic. The org has an obligation to everyone in it, and to we fans, to do whatever it sees fit in order to be successful. 

 

Do you think RF, as a GM dealing with this for the first time, isn't feeling some pressure as well? Eric has an NTC. RF could go to him and say "We've got a potential deal with team XYZ," and Eric could say, "No you don't, because I'm not going anywhere." BP made note of this yesterday, when he was asked if the situation is having any impact on the team. He said (paraphrasing from memory), "No effect at all. We talked at the beginning of the season, and things are status quo; he has a no-movement clause. It's pretty simple." The way he said it made me wonder if E hasn't already nixed a deal; "status quo" can mean a lot of things, including, "Eric is exercising his right to stay no matter what." 

 

I get that you think I'm a hard-a$s on Eric, caniac, but it's easy to forget that this is a two-way street. There is nothing stopping Eric from going to RF right now and saying "trade me," or "I'll re-sign right now for x amount of money." There is also nothing stopping RF from going to Eric with a list of teams that have expressed interest in him, or with an offer for y amount of money. But NEITHER party has an obligation to do any of those things. Then again, maybe one (or both) already has. Maybe Eric's nixed a deal, or maybe RF hasn't gotten an offer he thinks is worthwhile. But whatever is going on, two things are true:

 

(1) Eric's job is playing hockey.

(2) RF's job is creating the best possible opportunities for this org to win hockey games.

 

Both men are doing their jobs.

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Here are the teams that are possible contenders that could absorb Es contract at the trade deadline without shedding significant salary in return:

 

Stars, Isles, Panthers, Sens, Ducks, Avs, Devils, Preds, Yotes.

 

http://www.generalfanager.com/teams

 

Looks like I scooped TSN by about an hour. :D

 

http://www.tsn.ca/is-there-a-market-for-eric-staal-1.439297

some excerpts from their article:

 

The financial aspect of a potential Staal trade cannot be overlooked: the budget-conscious Canes can save more than $2 million in cash over the final 40 days of the season with Staal off the books. That’s akin to revenue from an extra home game.

 

Realistically, the Hurricanes have a 50-50 shot to make the playoffs, according to HockeyViz.com - which predicts points based on an advanced algorithm that includes possession metrics and save percentages. They have an equally strong chance to miss and end up in no man’s land, picking outside the top five spots of the draft.

 

More importantly, his salary-cap hit is tied for the 10th highest in the NHL this season at $8.25 million, making Staal by far the most expensive rental available. According to GeneralFanager.com, only six playoff-bound teams can afford Staal’s full cap hit on Feb. 29: the Stars, Islanders, Panthers, Ducks, Avalanche and Predators.

 

Dallas’ second and third-line centres, Cody Eakin and Mattias Janmark, are significantly younger and already have more goals (11 and 13) than Staal this season.

 

Rickard Rakell and Ryan Kesler are slotted in those same roles in Anaheim. Similarly, the Avalanche are solid up the middle with Matt Duchene, Nathan McKinnon and Carl Soderberg.

 

That leaves Florida, Brooklyn and Nashville. Staal doesn’t outwardly appear a fit with Garth Snow’s speedy lineup. And while the Panthers could use depth at centre, GM Dale Tallon is on the prowl for a big left winger.

 

Forty days ago, before the Predators finagled Ryan Johansen from Columbus, Nashville would have been an ideal destination for Staal. He won a Cup with Peter Laviolette. He would’ve been the big body Nashville needed to compete in the West, bumping Mike Ribeiro and Mike Fisher down the lineup. Alas, Johansen filled that void. The Predators, like the Panthers, are more in the market for a scoring winger.

 

In order for the Hurricanes to maximize value, Carolina would either need to retain a portion of Staal’s contract, take a contract back, or a combination of both. That way, a cap-strapped team might only need to find room for a quarter of Staal’s $8.25 million hit, opening up a new list of potential suitors. It can be done, but it will require finesse.

 

If the Hurricanes and Staal do agree to part ways, the toughest part may be finding a trade partner.

_______________

------------------------

 

Note: the tsn article doesn't include the Sens, Devils, or Yotes, who while not currently in a playoff spot are arguably still contending for one and could also afford to absorb Es contract.. Not sure if E might be a fit for any of them.

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Lake thanks for linking to HockeyViz.com., and anyone else who might have mentioned it before.

 

That is a fun little site. Lots of interesting stuff. Their odds of playoffs for us around 49% just feels more right than Sportsclub stats given how we've been playing since Dec 5th.

 

Lots of interesting advanced stats on there.

 

They have something I'd not seen before: their "sadness" index. The chance of a team finishing out of the playoffs AND out of the top 5 picks: we're #11, with a 47% chance. Thing is, that's pretty much the chance they give us for playoffs, meaning that if we miss, we get the sadness. Seems right though.

 

There are two really interesting and encouraging things seen in the charts, that suggest we really are a pretty good team the last 25 games or so:

 

1. Goaltending for the past 25 games. Basically, if I'm reading it right, only 4 teams are better. Ward and Lack are both way above average 5 on 5 and slightly above average 4 on 5.

 

2. Shots for vs Shots against: 5 on 5, puts us in a good corner of that graph, and recently shots for and especially against on PP and PK too.

 

The question is scoring finish. We've seen more of it lately though and that also bodes well. It also bodes well for where this team can get as we add some finishers and bring the whole thing up a couple of notches.

Edited by remkin

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They have something I'd not seen before: their "sadness" index. The chance of a team finishing out of the playoffs AND out of the top 5 picks: we're #11, with a 47% chance. Thing is, that's pretty much the chance they give us for playoffs, meaning that if we miss, we get the sadness. Seems right though.

 

I have non-advanced stats and old ticket stubs to prove the "sadness" index.

 

I was messing around there and saw that, and laughed.

 

Also look at the WOWY (With or Without You) graphics if you want your mind blown.  It explains everything - just kidding, or maybe not.

 

http://hockeyviz.com/img/player/wowy/1516/CAR/wowy-1516-CAR-staaler84-shots.png

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Also look at the WOWY (With or Without You) graphics if you want your mind blown.  It explains everything - just kidding, or maybe not.

 

http://hockeyviz.com/img/player/wowy/1516/CAR/wowy-1516-CAR-staaler84-shots.png

 

I think I need some help figuring that graph out.... :shock: .

 

He seems to have quite a positive effect on Nesty, and Nash, who he rarely plays with, and Jordan and Slavin...

 

He does seem to be better without players than he is with them? Wait that doesn't make sense.

 

Seems like his linemates do somewhat better with him than without him?

 

 

Is that right?

 

 

The other thing though, is that same graph for the past 12-15 games or so....

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The more I think about it the more clear it becomes that there is no way E. is waving his NTC. Why? Him and Jordan want a cup together, they see a chance right now and he's not going to leave.

Why not just stay home, play out the season with your bro and than field offers this summer. It's a lot simpler than the other option.

However, if E. is hungry enough and all he cares about is going to a first place team that has a legit shot at the cup than he may wave.

E. does not look hungry for anything so I don't see him doing that.

He has won every top prize/championship in hockey so their is not much more for him to do except win one with your bro on your franchise team.

I don't think RF or BP will threaten to bench him if he does not wave. That would be dirty and its not like he is hurting the team, he's still a powerful force out there.

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The more I think about it the more clear it becomes that there is no way E. is waving his NTC. Why? Him and Jordan want a cup together, they see a chance right now and he's not going to leave.

Why not just stay home, play out the season with your bro and than field offers this summer. It's a lot simpler than the other option.

However, if E. is hungry enough and all he cares about is going to a first place team that has a legit shot at the cup than he may wave.

E. does not look hungry for anything so I don't see him doing that.

He has won every top prize/championship in hockey so their is not much more for him to do except win one with your bro on your franchise team.

I don't think RF or BP will threaten to bench him if he does not wave. That would be dirty and its not like he is hurting the team, he's still a powerful force out there.

 

I could see him waving his NTC if he has an end game to come back in the offseason. I might be completely in a dream world but, if he left with the intent of coming back

 

1) He gets a run with a contender

2) Gets a refresh and a somewhat clean slate for the free agency period

3) Canes get value back in the trade (if he was planning on coming back I think he would want this, it only helps his chances of winning the Cup with his brother)

4) His offers will be lower this go around, and to come back to Raleigh we will likely need a bit of a hometown discount but, being a free agent and having played somewhere else to end the season would likely inflate our offer to him to some degree (it can't hurt it right?)

5) He likely wouldn't retake captaincy, a pressure that has dragged on him for years, his numbers have only declined since taking over the captain role.

 

I think E does want to be here, and he does want to win with his brother. This seems like his best case scenario if his goal is to be a Cane next season but, like I said maybe I am really off base...

 

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All valid points, TS and Jon. 

 

Eric said yesterday, unless he was lying, that Francis has not asked him to waive or if he would waive his NMC. I personally just think a decision needs to be made either way. This status quo is not helping anyone. I'm sure Francis hasn't been getting much sleep wondering what he should do. Should he trade the first 'franchise player' of the Canes org or keep him, and if so, at what cost.

 

I'm pretty sure Eric wants to stay. He really does love this team/org/area, plus his brother is here. I don't know that Jordan signed a 10-year deal only to get 1-2 years playing with his brother. The way Jordan is playing now, do you want to piss him off that he requests a trade? I don't think he would, but it's almost as with we are playing with a double edge sword. Like Forslund said that other night, the Canes aren't in the position they are in now if it's not for Jordan's play. The guy has been carrying this team.

 

As far as trading him, it sounds like it will be pretty hard, and maybe another reason for the 'status quo'. Bob McKenzie was on during the 1st intermission of the Hawks/Rangers game and actually had Staal as an option for the Hawks to play with Toews/Hossa. But he thought Eric's cap will be hard to take on for contending teams. 

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All valid points, TS and Jon. 

 

Eric said yesterday, unless he was lying, that Francis has not asked him to waive or if he would waive his NMC. I personally just think a decision needs to be made either way. This status quo is not helping anyone. I'm sure Francis hasn't been getting much sleep wondering what he should do. Should he trade the first 'franchise player' of the Canes org or keep him, and if so, at what cost.

 

I'm pretty sure Eric wants to stay. He really does love this team/org/area, plus his brother is here. I don't know that Jordan signed a 10-year deal only to get 1-2 years playing with his brother. The way Jordan is playing now, do you want to piss him off that he requests a trade? I don't think he would, but it's almost as with we are playing with a double edge sword. Like Forslund said that other night, the Canes aren't in the position they are in now if it's not for Jordan's play. The guy has been carrying this team.

 

As far as trading him, it sounds like it will be pretty hard, and maybe another reason for the 'status quo'. Bob McKenzie was on during the 1st intermission of the Hawks/Rangers game and actually had Staal as an option for the Hawks to play with Toews/Hossa. But he thought Eric's cap will be hard to take on for contending teams. 

Jordan has already said that he is his own man and while he cares about his brother, he is under a separate contract and is here to play his hardest every night.

 

And I'd just add that Eric is not our first franchise player. Ronnie was.

 

What's happening with Eric is that he was given a pass by Rutherford and he's not getting one anymore. Yes that is hard. It is also part of the game. Rosters change. Organizational leadership changes.

 

Someone here recently suggested Eric comes back next year at $6 million/year for three years. That is sooooo much more than anyone else of his age and his current stats would make in this league. My guess is that Ronnie has pitched a number, it's lower than Eric wants, and he's not accepting it. If he has decided to play out his current deal on the chance that someone somewhere will pay him $2 million (or more) than his numbers dictate in the off-season, or that he will be a key in leading the Canes to the post season here in the remaining weeks and thereby up his value, more power to him. I hope he goes out tonight and lights it up, and continues doing so the rest of the way. 

 

Just remember, whether that happens or not, it will tell us what we really needed to know when the season began: Can he still perform under pressure? I believe that was RF's goal for Eric in the last year of his deal: Figuring out whether he can earn a spot on the roster going forward.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Prediction:  E Staal waves his NTC and goes to NY Rangers to play with Marc and make a run at the cup.  Canes eat a lot of salary and get second round pick and a prospect.

Edited by allboys

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From TSN 1200 Radio

 

Ian Mendes @ian_mendes 3h3 hours ago

Eric Staal on future in Carolina: "I'm not going to be crushed if a decision is made and I'm moving on."

Staal said he hasn't been formally asked to waive his NTC. Says dialogue with Hurricanes is ongoing.

Staal also said his preference is to stay in Carolina. But it's obviously clear he's come to terms with the fact he may not be staying.

 

 

 

Sounds like Staalsy is preparing himself for anything. 

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At first I read that and thought, well he's saying I'll waive. But then "I'm moving on", could be next year. It still kind of feels like he's saying he would waive his NTC....

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Here is the interview with Eric. I got the sense from his voice that he feels he is gone. He mentioned both parties have talked which makes me believe that RF has made an offer that is not up to ES expectations.Who knows? Not I. The article also has video of Subban's gaff which was called out by coach T that was being discussed in another thread.http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-trade-rumours-eric-staal-pk-subban-montreal-canadiens-carolina-hurricanes-andrew-ladd-winnipeg-jets-sabres-campbell/

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Someone here recently suggested Eric comes back next year at $6 million/year for three years. That is sooooo much more than anyone else of his age and his current stats would make in this league. My guess is that Ronnie has pitched a number, it's lower than Eric wants, and he's not accepting it. If he has decided to play out his current deal on the chance that someone somewhere will pay him $2 million (or more) than his numbers dictate in the off-season, or that he will be a key in leading the Canes to the post season here in the remaining weeks and thereby up his value, more power to him. I hope he goes out tonight and lights it up, and continues doing so the rest of the way. 

 

 

If you think Eric will get less than $6M on the open market then you are just delusional. He will be one of the top UFAs come July 1st, if he isn't re-signed. He is still a very good capable 1-2C, you have to look at more than just stats. This shows (http://public.tableau.com/shared/85XRW8HDG?:display_count=yes&:showVizHome=no) that Eric is still a very good player, a player that teams need/want.

 

If Eric was going to get $6M or less on the open market, he'll just re-sign here for that much. He'll easily get $7.5-8.5M from a team. There are teams out there who need a 1-2C and will pay it. 

 

And yes, you can throw Stamkos,  if he makes it to July 1st, will be the #1 UFA, but he will also be looking for a contract in the $12M range. That will limit teams that can take that type of contract on. However, I doubt he gets to July 1st anyway. So that leaves Staal as the biggest UFA and teams will pay more than $6M.

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He has not been much of a factor for awhile, so I say trade him at the deadline regardless. If he wants to come back, he comes back at a lot less cash, and a reduced role. If he is not resigned, use the money to pick up a free agent after July 1. At this point, he reminds me of RF at the end of his career. He looks slow, and just a shell of himself.

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I will be very surprised if Eric gets $7.5M on the open market.

There is one thing you  have to remember, come free agency, the question isn't 'is said player worth that price', the question is 'is there a team that will overpay for said player'. The answer to that question is YES. We see it every July 1st. There is always 1, sometimes 2 players where the terms/salary come out and everyone goes 'Whaaaaaaaat, that is overpayment'. 

 

So I wouldn't be surprised to see Eric get more than the $6M people say he is worth. All it takes is that 1 GM who gets desperate or has some extra money lying around. And it happens every single year.

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If you think Eric will get less than $6M on the open market then you are just delusional. He will be one of the top UFAs come July 1st, if he isn't re-signed. He is still a very good capable 1-2C, you have to look at more than just stats. This shows (http://public.tableau.com/shared/85XRW8HDG?:display_count=yes&:showVizHome=no) that Eric is still a very good player, a player that teams need/want.

 

If Eric was going to get $6M or less on the open market, he'll just re-sign here for that much. He'll easily get $7.5-8.5M from a team. There are teams out there who need a 1-2C and will pay it. 

 

And yes, you can throw Stamkos,  if he makes it to July 1st, will be the #1 UFA, but he will also be looking for a contract in the $12M range. That will limit teams that can take that type of contract on. However, I doubt he gets to July 1st anyway. So that leaves Staal as the biggest UFA and teams will pay more than $6M.

I have absolutely no doubt some GM will give Eric a one- or even two-year deal at $6 million. But that doesn't mean we should.

 

And that is the point I've been trying to make throughout our conversation, 247: We have to decide if Eric is part of our future. We're not going to get into a bidding war to keep him. We need to move forward, and that very likely means moving on.

 

I tend to agree with others here who have suggested Eric won't take less than his brother. If we're dumb enough to let sibling rivalry dictate business decisions, this org has far bigger problems to deal with in the next two weeks than its 7 UFAs.

 

Plus, keeping Eric pretty much requires keeping Eric as captain. And how has that worked out? There is no graceful way to keep him here (if we could come to terms) and take the C away. He's had seven years and has been paid $58 million to lead us back to the playoffs and it hasn't happened. By any standard, that is a bad a contract. It's time to move on. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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