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AWACSooner

The great E Staal Has Been Traded Thread

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No the investment is not his fault. His fault is the lack of investment this teams success. Doing just enough to keep the casual fan involved , but not taking the next step to pushing himself and others toward consistent playoff appearances. I just don't see the desire to push harder. There seems to be a lack of passion. This contract is done. Move on. Find someone who wants to play and play here. The future certainly looks brighter with the youth movement we are seeing. We do not need to go after the so called top UFA's. I think we can find a player who fills in with our guys who won't break the bank. We have certainly traded away quite a few of those in the last 10 years.

I agree that is time to move in. But also one player does not carry a team to the playoffs unless your last name is Hasek. He plays with Chad LaRose on his 1st line for like 3 years. How he even achieved consecutive 70 point seasons during that time is beyond me.

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For what it's worth the Sharks announcers said E. Staal is struggling because he is getting beat to the puck, basically that he is a step behind the play. Otherwise they were very complimentary towards the Canes and our coaching staff.

This kind of goes along with what others here have said about the game getting faster or that Staal never fully recovered from his injury or he has just slowed down.

From my point of view we are winning despite Staal, not because of him. I've seen nothing that warrants him staying here and being part of the future now that the youth movement is here (and sooner than expected). I just think Staal has looked pretty poor all season and I see no reason for keeping him here. If anything he should be motivated by being in a contract year and being on a team that is making a playoff run, but I see the same Staal from the last few seasons and it's unacceptable. The fact that he has the "C" on his jersey has almost become embarrassing. No passion. No consistent hustle. No physical play. No ability to finish plays (his shot has been brutal this year). Too much "going through the motions" as I've said over the past few seasons.

To me the thought of re-signing Staal is a big gamble, and there is zero evidence over the past few seasons that things will turn around.

I could see it happening, but I want another team to take that risk while we stay the course. This was our big year/opportunity to get out from some bad contracts, and I want to take advantage of that, particularly in Staal's case.

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Recently someone said: "Something is wrong with Eric."

 

Last night, I focused on him and was amazed.  Not only was he slow, there also seems to be something wrong with his hands and shot.  He is totally in a "shoot second, pass first" mentality.  The power play goal was a good example: I really think the Eric of old would have gotten that puck in with a little more heft.

 

There seems to be no power, no heft, no snap.

 

The combination of both makes him look disinterested, and perhaps maybe that's what it is.  But I also can't help but feel he is injured or permanently physically degraded.  

He reminds me of Roberto Duran on skates. (Hands of Stone)

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For what it's worth the Sharks announcers said E. Staal is struggling because he is getting beat to the puck, basically that he is a step behind the play. Otherwise they were very complimentary towards the Canes and our coaching staff.

This kind of goes along with what others here have said about the game getting faster or that Staal never fully recovered from his injury or he has just slowed down.

From my point of view we are winning despite Staal, not because of him. I've seen nothing that warrants him staying here and being part of the future now that the youth movement is here (and sooner than expected). I just think Staal has looked pretty poor all season and I see no reason for keeping him here. If anything he should be motivated by being in a contract year and being on a team that is making a playoff run, but I see the same Staal from the last few seasons and it's unacceptable. The fact that he has the "C" on his jersey has almost become embarrassing. No passion. No consistent hustle. No physical play. No ability to finish plays (his shot has been brutal this year). Too much "going through the motions" as I've said over the past few seasons.

To me the thought of re-signing Staal is a big gamble, and there is zero evidence over the past few seasons that things will turn around.

I could see it happening, but I want another team to take that risk while we stay the course. This was our big year/opportunity to get out from some bad contracts, and I want to take advantage of that, particularly in Staal's case.

I don't think it is a question of motivation or going through the motions. I think he just doesn't have the physical ability to play to the level we expect. I said in a previous post that he reminds me of Ronnie at the end of his career.

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But was that investment his fault?  You literally just proved my point.

No, you literally don't understand the point everyone here has been making for months.

 

You're still hung up on "fault." Nobody currently in the org has any fault (although a former GM has plenty.) But what everybody here has been debating is "what is Eric worth now?" because his deal is up. By the current NHL standard, for a guy his age and with his numbers, the answer is $5 million, give or take a few hundred grand. What we're saying is, that has to be our standard too - not affection for him, or consideration for "years of service" (for which he was paid handsomely, BTW) or anything else. PLUS, we have the captaincy issue to deal with, which an acquiring team does not; if this team wants to go in a new direction, new on-ice leadership is part and parcel of that.

 

So, if some other GM wants to rent Eric for the rest of the season, and that same GM (or another one) wants to ink a deal with him over the summer at more than $5 million, great. But we can't let what others might do influence our assessment or our best offer, because getting into a bidding war for a 31-year-old who has lost a step is just crazy. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Somewhere out there is a playoff contender that can use Eric as their 3rd line center, where he'll face lesser defenders, in their cup quest.  Pure rental, but potentially a key piece for a cup hopeful.

 

Question is what will they pay?  I don't see where he fits next season unless it is in that same role for the Canes.  Somebody else can determine what that is worth.  If Eric doesn't see things that way he is free to sign elsewhere.

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Honestly, with where this team currently is, I'd rather have a prospect that is closer to being NHL ready than a 1st rounder that is probably going to be in the 20s and 2 or 3 years away from being ready for prime time.

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I look to next year and beyond, and as I and Top and others have said, I don't seen Eric being here unless he takes $5 million or less and at least a modified NTC. But even then, looking long term, I just can't shake the feeling that the team, and maybe even the player are far overdue for a change of scenery. I do not want to get nothing for him.

 

Trading him now would be ultra bold, and would require E' being ready to move on, even as the team he is Captaining is finally making a real playoff push. Not easy. Possible? Not sure. It would be best, but very hard to do.

 

We have 5 games pre deadline. The way this team is playing we will go at least 3-2. A 1-4 run would make the move easy, but we have not lost in regulation 2X in a row in forever. Odds are, we will still be very much near the cut line at the deadline.

 

What do you do? What do you do?

Edited by remkin

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It's easy for me to say this because i'm just some punter on a message board who doesn't have to worry about team success or failure as his career, but stay the course.  As i said at the beginning of the year, this is a year of growth and preparing for the future, and if the ducks line up and the team makes the playoffs, gravy.  But don't sacrifice next year or the year after for an 'all-in' run this season.  No rentals, and don't keep the guys who don't fit in the plans for the future.  The guys who fit the plans (and this probably includes Ward now), definitely, give them paper and pen, but the others, get what you can for the future.

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I look to next year and beyond, and as I and Top and others have said, I don't seen Eric being here unless he takes $5 million or less and at least a modified NTC. But even then, looking long term, I just can't shake the feeling that the team, and maybe even the player are far overdue for a change of scenery. I do not want to get nothing for him.

 

Trading him now would be ultra bold, and would require E' being ready to move on, even as the team he is Captaining is finally making a real playoff push. Not easy. Possible? Not sure. It would be best, but very hard to do.

 

We have 5 games pre deadline. The way this team is playing we will go at least 3-2. A 1-4 run would make the move easy, but we have not lost in regulation 2X in a row in forever. Odds are, we will still be very much near the cut line at the deadline.

 

What do you do? What do you do?

I've always believed BP gave himself a personal mission of rejuvenating Eric's game--or at least that he believed on some level that getting the team playing the right way and winning consistently would help in rejuvenating Eric's game. While I realize that his positive comments in last night's post-game confab were largely him saying the right thing to the press, I have to also believe that they were targeted at Eric, too. We've agreed that Eric can be a piece if the money is right, but the obstacles to that seem pretty formidable.

 

What is still possible though, is that we get in or at least make it interesting. We are one line away from firing on all cylinders, and the game we are playing wears teams down. IF we're in a playoff spot at the TD and IF E's line starts putting the puck in the net, Eric probably plays out his deal here. 

 

IF all that happens, it makes Eric more valuable on the open market when the season ends--but it also makes it harder for him to leave, because BP essentially helped him get his mojo back.

 

Whatever happens, like everybody else has said, I'm just elated that this team is so much fun to watch right now, and I'm really excited about its future.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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This is what I'm having trouble understanding, Versteeg and E have virtually the same numbers yet almost every post I see says sign Steeger and trade Staal. If you trade either one of these guys you have probable lost any chance at the playoffs (unless RF pulls off a hockey trade). We aren't in cap trouble and E will only cost you about $2 million the rest of the way. His contract is no longer an issue unless we re-sign him and that is a problem to solve for next season. It doesn't look like teams are ready to give up a lot this season for a rental. My point is if you are going to trade E you might as well trade Versteeg too.

 

Why keep E for the rest of the season? He still plays big minutes, He is still hard to play against, BP said he shows leadership and veteran experience and maybe most importantly he allow the Canes to keep their 2nd and 3rd lines in tact. This is only important if you want this team to play for a playoff spot with what looks like a reasonable (not Likely) chance but a competitive chance none the less.

 

Both RF and BP always mention speed first when talking about this teams future and that to me means getting faster and younger. I don't think E is part of our future but a true playoff battle might be as important to the team as another draft choice.

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Well for me, I am assuming if we keep Versteeg it would be because he would in theory sign for the right money, whereas Eric would not. This is, of course pure speculation.

 

Then there is the years of face of the franchise and losing and the C and all of that. Then there is Eric's recent slump.

 

This team has played very well during a stretch where Eric is struggling. That leads to the notion that maybe we could still slip in without him. But the idea of slipping in without 2 of our top 5 forwards just seems like asking too much.

 

In this same vein: just read a proposed trade for Versteeg, will put in the trade area.

Edited by remkin

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This is what I'm having trouble understanding, Versteeg and E have virtually the same numbers yet almost every post I see says sign Steeger and trade Staal. If you trade either one of these guys you have probable lost any chance at the playoffs (unless RF pulls off a hockey trade). We aren't in cap trouble and E will only cost you about $2 million the rest of the way. His contract is no longer an issue unless we re-sign him and that is a problem to solve for next season. It doesn't look like teams are ready to give up a lot this season for a rental. My point is if you are going to trade E you might as well trade Versteeg too.

 

Why keep E for the rest of the season? He still plays big minutes, He is still hard to play against, BP said he shows leadership and veteran experience and maybe most importantly he allow the Canes to keep their 2nd and 3rd lines in tact. This is only important if you want this team to play for a playoff spot with what looks like a reasonable (not Likely) chance but a competitive chance none the less.

 

Both RF and BP always mention speed first when talking about this teams future and that to me means getting faster and younger. I don't think E is part of our future but a true playoff battle might be as important to the team as another draft choice.

Steegs still "plays young" and could be a transitional Captain. This is why I think you lock Steeger down now (if possible) and - if we're in the mix at the TD - let Eric play out his deal. 

 

With Steegs committed, if (1) the Canes are clearly out of it by the TD, and (2) a deal for E is there, AND (3) he waives his NTC, you take whatever you can get.

 

And I think there is no question that JML gets moved by the TD. It could be to TB for Drouin.

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. . .

Then there is Eric's recent slump.

 

This team has played very well during a stretch where Eric is struggling. That leads to the notion that maybe we could still slip in without him. But the idea of slipping in without 2 of our top 5 forwards just seems like asking too much.

. . .

 

 

To me that implies moving Nash into the 1C spot.  Cause I think Peters would be nuts to mix up the 2nd and 3rd lines at this point.  So we'd be replacing Nash on the 4th line with Malone or Gerbe.   I dunno . . .

 

. . .

 

And I think there is no question that JML gets moved by the TD. It could be to TB for Drouin.

 

Top, you and I are just miles apart on how we view Drouin.  I'd be ecstatic to get Drouin for JML. If that does happen I'll do an emoticon-humiliation-dance in this thread acknowledging how wrong I was. :D

Edited by LakeLivin

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If I'm not mistaken, Florida signed Versteeg to like a 4 year contract 2 Stanley Cups (for Chicago) ago, at $4.5 million per. Florida traded him back to Chicago last year and retained 1/2 of his salary. So $$$ and term for Versteeg is not going to be easy, any more than for Staal. I would love to see him stay here, but I bet Chicago would love to rent him back for their stretch run and playoffs.

I woul also like us to make a run at Drouin, but do we want to trade a player who could impact the stretch run this year to one of the teams we are battling for a playoff spot? If we are only about the future, trading Liles to pick up Drouin would make sense, but I think it would take more, maybe Liles for TB's stretch run and Fleury for them to develop for the future. That may seem like a lot, and maybe it is too much, but #3 overall picks are not going to come cheap. In every draft I can remember, the difference in a #3 overall pick and a #7 has been pretty pronounced.

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If I'm not mistaken, Florida signed Versteeg to like a 4 year contract 2 Stanley Cups (for Chicago) ago, at $4.5 million per. Florida traded him back to Chicago last year and retained 1/2 of his salary. So $$$ and term for Versteeg is not going to be easy, any more than for Staal. I would love to see him stay here, but I bet Chicago would love to rent him back for their stretch run and playoffs.

I woul also like us to make a run at Drouin, but do we want to trade a player who could impact the stretch run this year to one of the teams we are battling for a playoff spot? If we are only about the future, trading Liles to pick up Drouin would make sense, but I think it would take more, maybe Liles for TB's stretch run and Fleury for them to develop for the future. That may seem like a lot, and maybe it is too much, but #3 overall picks are not going to come cheap. In every draft I can remember, the difference in a #3 overall pick and a #7 has been pretty pronounced.

 

Yeah, Fla retained half of Versteegs salary, but I'm almost positive the cap hit stays with them as well, so Versteegs AAV as relates to the cap ceiling is $2.2m as compared to Es $8.25m.

 

I think JML + Fleury is a lot closer to what it would take to get Drouin than some other suggestions.  Of course there are a lot of moving parts that you'd need to consider before making that deal, if it was even available.

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To me that implies moving Nash into the 1C spot.  Cause I think Peters would be nuts to mix up the 2nd and 3rd lines at this point.  So we'd be replacing Nash on the 4th line with Malone or Gerbe.   I dunno . . .

 

 

Top, you and I are just miles apart on how we view Drouin.  I'd be ecstatic to get Drouin for JML. If that does happen I'll do an emoticon-humiliation-dance in this thread acknowledging how wrong I was. :D

But I could see the whole third line moving to first (minutes) and the first moving to third, with Nash at center.

 

And I don't think we're apart on it. I think we both know Drouin is going nowhere pre-deadline. But I have about a 5 percent hope that since Y has gone all in on this playoff run by taking Stammer out of the discussion, and needs D, he might trade an unproven trouble-child pick who could be good in the recipient's future for a proven D man who can bolster his team's present. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Staal is worth more in picks and maybe a 3rd liner in a trade than he is staying with the Canes any longer.  He skates like he has a baby grand piano strapped to his back. He's getting late in his career and has lost the fire in the belly that you saw from Jerome Iginla at the same point in his career or Shane Doan right now who still commits to being a Captain willing to drop the mitts, show emotion etc. 

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Has anyone raised the question as to whether BP might have moved E to the wing last night to showcase him there for a prospective trade partner rather than to shake up the lines?  I missed the game, he did play on the wing, right?

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Has anyone raised the question as to whether BP might have moved E to the wing last night to showcase him there for a prospective trade partner rather than to shake up the lines?  I missed the game, he did play on the wing, right?

 

There was a lot of line shuffling, but he was pretty much back in his spot between Versteeg and DiGiuseppe once McClement went out.  More so when Nestrasil went.

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Ok.  But the question as to why he started out on the wing still stands.  I've heard there were a number of scouts in the stands, although that could be totally unrelated . . .

Edited by LakeLivin

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