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AWACSooner

The great E Staal Has Been Traded Thread

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So is the answer to go full rebuild and get rid of all the veterans? Talk about a Chicken Little situation, that would be it.

JStaal is exactly what he was when JR traded for him. Money has to be spent somewhere. JStaal isn't the problem on this team. I hope his scoring doesn't regress, Lord knows I have been critical of his hands of stone in the past...but...we do need some veteran presence on the team. IF somebody offered a mother lode for him, then fine, but he isn't the problem. Even when not scoring, he is contributing. Maybe not $6M a year's worth when he isn't scoring, but we as fans have to get over looking at money all the time.

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It'll be interesting to see Jordan as the #1 center down the stretch and facing the other team's toughest but I would hope we don't move him because he can't handle the 1C job it's not what he was signed for and isn't what he excels at but to an extent is why he left Pittsburgh. 

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Jordan has been facing the top lines for a long time, not sure about facing top D pairings. Still, whether he is "second line" center, or 1B, or first, we need a more prolific scoring center down the middle. Rask is very very nice 3C, but this team needs a 60-80 point guy, ideally at center to go with Rask and Jordan down the middle.

 

I keep dreaming about 80 point Eric being around while Jordan has been at the next level. Would have been very different this year.

 

I do think that the chance to be the man, with Eric gone, could be appealing to Jordan, but I don't know. He got out of Pittsburgh in part because he was and always would be the third line center after Crosby and Malkin. Even if we find a more prototypical playmaking/point producing 1C, he has cemented a role as at least the 2C, which should work for him.

 

I cannot see trading Jordan unless it was literally a haul. A very good forward and a lottery draft pick for instance.

 

But with the way Jordan/Nesty/Nordstrom have played (really all year if you count the chekcing) it is hard to see how losing Jordan would not be a big step back.

 

Right now Francis knows he has an up and coming, even crowded blueline, and a dominant at least second line. But he really has more than that. He has a few key framework guys, that at the least can hold down third line, and even part of first line: Rask, Skinner, PDG, Lindholm. If he can somehow add speed and elite scoring through the draft, trades, UFA, and at least Aho? Go Canes.

Edited by remkin

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Top, with as much criticism as you given Eric over the years, I don't see how you can be so quick to defend Cam.  We are way past the point of waiting for Cam to reach his potential.  He is who he is.  He doesn't show up until mid-December, he goes on a hot streak, cools off a little, gets injured, comes back hot again, then fails the team when the games are important.

 

And i'll tell you one thing that irritates the heck out of me, is when I hear posters and our broadcasting staff say "The Carolina Hurricanes stats since December 10th.................".  The season doesn't start in mid-December, it starts early October.  Stating stats after nearly a quarter of the season is over is pure junk science.  It's not real, and it's not indicative of the team as a whole.

 

Cam should be in the same boat as Eric.  He's had his chance to be the guy, and he isn't.  This team has to move on from him.  We will be the same team while Cam is here.  And for those saying there's nothing out there better, there are 34 goalies in the league with a better save % than him.  The Oilers' starting goalie has better numbers than him, with a much less than stellar defense/scheme.  

 

There has been whispers that with a lot of RFA's to re-sign, and the emergence of John Gibson, that Frederik Andersson may be available.  I know his past with Carolina, and I gotta say I don't blame him one bit for any decisions he's made.  I would most certainly flip a couple of lower draft picks to acquire him from the Ducks.  At 6'2 220, he has the build of the modern day goalie.

I agree (and have already said) that a slow start next year is unacceptable, if he is back--which he may not be.

 

That said, goalies don't score goals. They prevent them, and for a lot of years with no backup (Johnny Graham?? Really?) Cam kept this team in games night after night with mediocre D, no run support, and the second coming of Paul "let's win by one" Maurice. I think if he'll take 3.5 million with no NTC, he's as good an option - SHORT TERM - as anybody, while we focus on increasing offensive output.

 

I'm totally with you on Andersen. I hold no ill will for anybody who couldn't come to terms with JR--I STILL haven't  :lol: 

 

As I posted on another thread, RF should by all means explore all options. My only point on Cam (and Eddie) is that our goaltending is not an achilles heel at this point, so from a building/cost effectiveness standpoint, using the current duo as the bridge to the goaltending future maintains a level of familiarity for the rest of the roster, and buys time for our goalie prospects to continue development. 

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Oh, and while we are on the subject: The State Fair isn't the cause of all this.  Look at the records.  

Thank you.

 

These guys are pros, and I think anybody that believes BP will let them forget it or give them excuses for poor play hasn't been paying attention.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I'm still not sold that Jordan will consistently play like this. He's a slumper and hot streaker

Okay, that is completely unfair to Jordan. His offensive production has been all over the map since his arrival (until now) but that a lot to do with him being asked to play a different game than he is built for throughout that period. And even in the face of that, he has been ridiculously D-zone responsible, which is his game.

 

He mentioned the other day that his d-zone time has come down since he's been playing with Nesty and Nordy. That means they're possessing the puck longer. In terms of effectiveness, that line was the #1 line on this team exactly because it plays a three-zone game. I expect Nesty to be re-signed, and that it will be the line that all the others are expected to model their play on next year.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Okay, that is completely unfair to Jordan. His offensive production has been all over the map since his arrival (until now) but that a lot to do with him being asked to play a different game than he is built for throughout that period. And even in the face of that, he has been ridiculously D-zone responsible, which is his game.

 

He mentioned the other day that his d-zone time has come down since he's been playing with Nesty and Nordy. That means they're possessing the puck longer. In terms of effectiveness, that line was the #1 line on this team exactly because it plays a three-zone game. I expect Nesty to be re-signed, and that it will be the line that all the others are expected to model their play on next year.

Completely unfair to a 6 million dollar a year guy who has finally put together a few good months of offensive hockey after being here 3yrs? Anyone who is hot and cold is a slumper/streaker, no excuses.

I want to see him carry it into these last games as well as oct/nov next year. I think that's fair to say.

And can you elaborate on what you mean by he was "asked" to play hockey he's not built for? Playing consistently and producing consistently seem to be the hardest thing for an NHL player to do. He is paid like one that should, I want to see him do it now. 3 months is not a streak so he is on his way, I want to see it carry on. We haven't had a "consistent" player offensively in a long time.

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Completely unfair to a 6 million dollar a year guy who has finally put together a few good months of offensive hockey after being here 3yrs? Anyone who is hot and cold is a slumper/streaker, no excuses.

I want to see him carry it into these last games as well as oct/nov next year. I think that's fair to say.

And can you elaborate on what you mean by he was "asked" to play hockey he's not built for? Playing consistently and producing consistently seem to be the hardest thing for an NHL player to do. He is paid like one that should, I want to see him do it now. 3 months is not a streak so he is on his way, I want to see it carry on. We haven't had a "consistent" player offensively in a long time.

I absolutely agree that it's fair to expect him to produce going forward. I just think you're overlooking that he has been producing all along.

 

In 6-1/2 seasons at PIT, he averaged .57 points per game. In almost 4 seasons here, he's averaged .55. No excuses at all; no need for them. He has been exactly what we brought him here to be, and he's showing signs of becoming more than that.

 

As for the role he's been asked to play, you said it yourself: "offensive hockey." He's a defensive center. He was in Pittsburgh; we knew that when we got him. He's constantly in the discussion for a Selke. But he's been under constant pressure - largely from fans who haven't bothered to look any further than the "Staal" on his sweater - to "contribute more offensively."

 

To his credit, if the past 30 games are any indication, he's doing that--even though that's not why we brought him here. JR brought him here, in yet another of his long line of "quick fixes," to bring defensive responsibility to a roster that had nearly none. Now that we (finally) have a coach who understands that D responsibility is a team thing, not a one-man thing, Jordan has some space to bring his playmaking talents and net-front presence to bear. 

 

Jordan has been consistent in d-zone responsibility since he arrived. He's battled through a broken leg, returning from that and contributing to the Canes outstanding second half last season. He's putting up ridiculous numbers now, and he's on a line with obvious chemistry. He's under contract at a fair price for exactly what he brings to the table; if he turns into a point-per-game guy - and he won't, but even if he got his point average from .5 to .75 - he'd be worth another million, in terms of NHL pay scale. 

 

In short, he's a big center who is tough to move from the front of the net, he's great in his own end and in the neutral zone, he's not flashy but brings a quiet determination--and at $6 million, he's a bargain. Now is not the time to move him. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I have a slightly less charitable view on what Jordan was given that contract to do vs. what he has done until the start of December. This is in no way to imply that Jordan has been bad or not important in his more defensive role. But I disagree with the idea that he was given the kind of deal JR gave him to come in here, check the opponent and put up 40 points. And there was reason to expect more.

 

Jordan's numbers in Pittsburgh are tricky to interpret. Both due to who he played with, and the number of games played. His last two years he had injuries and played less games. Despite this, over more than 100 games in his last two regular seasons, Jordan put up .8 ppg, good for 65 points/seasaon if projected for a full season. That was over a full season of consecutive games. Then, in the same two seasons he put up .9 ppg in two playoff runs. And he was not near his peak in terms of typical age-adjusted peak for a forward.

 

Jordan is being paid to put up at least 60 points a season while playing a 2 way game, and the lack of offense until December of this year was a legit issue.

 

But since December of this year the guy is at or near a 1.0 ppg pace in addition to all the great other stuff (at one point leading the league in faceoffs, the defense, possession, etc, etc, etc,). Over that stretch he is on an 80 point pace, while still doing the Selke stuff, he has gone from overpayed to underpaid just like that.

 

I don't know if he'll keep this up, but the .8-.9 ppg his last two years in Pittsburgh mean by definition this is not a one time thing. He is just coming into his prime age-wize as well. These suggest he could keep it up. If he does, he would remain underpaid even at his sizable salary.

Edited by remkin

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Jordan Staal has been the guy to make this team go since January 2015 when he returned from injury.  At that point he had the high scoring pair of Gerbe and Dwyer on his flanks.  Guess what?  They pretty much shutdown the opponent's top line with offensive zone pressure.

 

Sound familiar?  Can you say Nesty and Nordstrom?

 

The folks in Winnipeg were right years ago when they taunted Eric with chants of "Jordans better."  Jordan is the most complete player on this squad by a country mile.

 

Lastly, last change for the home team makes a big difference about who he's paired against.  He's obviously most effective when BP makes the call vs the opponent's top line (just ask Pittsburgh).

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It is a good point about his linemates. I think part of why he is doing better is because Nesty and Nordstrom, while far from elite wingers are better than Gerbe and Dwyer, especially in the offensive zone. Nordstrom is a very smart player and Nesty and Nordstrom are both very good cyclers and play very well along the boards.

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It is a good point about his linemates. I think part of why he is doing better is because Nesty and Nordstrom, while far from elite wingers are better than Gerbe and Dwyer, especially in the offensive zone. Nordstrom is a very smart player and Nesty and Nordstrom are both very good cyclers and play very well along the boards.

Agreed.  I'm also suggesting the opponent's top line is useless when they can't get out of their own zone.  IMO that is the greatest value he and whomever is out there adds as a dimension to this team.  

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Jordan's numbers in Pittsburgh are tricky to interpret. 

I hear ya, and you make good points. But as you say, you really can't compare the PIT team Jordan came from to the Canes team he came to. By virtue of the Pens offensive juggernaut and elite goaltending, it was apples and oranges. They were winning games by two and three goals a night; we were struggling to win games by a goal (well, we were struggling to win games AT ALL, but you get my point :) ).

 

Despite that, in 48 games in that first strike-shortened season, he put up .64 PPG. I guess what frustrates me (and seemingly you too) when some call for trading him is that really his only "disappointing" season was his second, which was also Muller's last. As we and others have pointed out, he came back strong from a tough injury last year and has been lights out this season since January.

 

My biggest fear is that people will expect him to be "superstar" type a 1C when that is neither his natural game nor what he's being paid for. My hope (and belief) is that BP is geared toward having three solid top lines which are pretty much indistinguishable in terms of scoring threat, so we have a balanced attack that wears other teams down; essentially, three lines where every C is a Jordan-quality 2C and scoring is pretty evenly distributed among the top nine forwards, supported by a fourth line that is solid on the PK and relentless on the forecheck. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Jordan Staal is a less offensive Brind'Amour. Can he reach 30 goals? I think it's possible, but not probable.

 

The line of Nordstrom JStaal Nesty is fun to watch, and I wouldn't split them up; but of course, that's not a top line. Carolina doesn't really have a top line. Is Rask ready to be a 1st line center...?

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Why is Tripp stroking J staal to be the next Captain?  He's had a good second half is all. Enough already. With Jordans goofy JR contract that doesn't necessarily fit into Peters or Francis long range goals he could be gone in another year or two.  One Staal captain was enough.  Play a full season next year with no captain and all A's.  Its been done before and will work here as well until someone rises above the rest and becomes a natural selection.

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I loved that they admitted that the Rangers sent highly touted Finish prospect, Aleski Saarela to the Hurricanes, as well as two first round picks.Just nice to see our prospect referred to that way.

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Why is Tripp stroking J staal to be the next Captain? He's had a good second half is all. Enough already. With Jordans goofy JR contract that doesn't necessarily fit into Peters or Francis long range goals he could be gone in another year or two. One Staal captain was enough. Play a full season next year with no captain and all A's. Its been done before and will work here as well until someone rises above the rest and becomes a natural selection.

Bubbles..... is that really you?!!!!

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...and an update from up north...

http://nypost.com/2016/03/22/rangers-coach-knows-why-eric-staals-been-invisible-blame-me/

 

See, not just the many coaches in Carolina, but now elsewhere, can excuse their own eyes.  News flash to NYR: Eric won't make any of those wingers up their game and they won't up his.  

And this:

 

THANKS FOR SAARELA!!

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Eric took his Cloak of Invisibilty with him.  RF would have done well enough getting a nice t-shirt in return for him; getting 2 2nd-rounders and a solid prospect was magical.

 

If Eric doesn't find his game (if he has one left) by the end of the season, a lot of GMs will take notice.

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