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AWACSooner

The great E Staal Has Been Traded Thread

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I think this is all BS and there's been discussion both ways. 

 

Hag and the Big Guy comes to mind.

 

HAG:  I think Hag and the Big Guy have more veracity than this press discussion.

 

BIG GUY:  I'm not sure I ever tried Veracity... does it come in 16oz cans?

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All things considered, I don't think Eric is having a bad season at all.  It wasn't his fault that he was offered 9m.  That is on JR.  If he resigns for 5-6m (which is what he is worth) then this is a no brainer.  I hope he is resigned and I also hope our coaching staff is held accountable.

 

27th in GPG

 

28th in GA

 

28th on the PP

 

29th on the PK.

 

 

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If by chance he re-signs it needs to be on the condition he drops the "C"

 

Because he seems to be an introvert I don't think he can even begin to lead all the youngsters we have now. I'm sure all the Checkers now on the Canes hang together in which E has no participation.

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I meant to add that it wouldn't hurt the Canes one bit to have no-one wearing the C next year.  Its not unprecedented.  Let it play out for a season and leadership from someone will emerge and become apparent just like cream rises to the top and the sun rises in the east.

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I posted on this in the in season thread, but I'm kind of on board with BD and the general sentiment of raleighcaniac.

 

Eric is still an effective player. He is just not a superstar. But we need all the effective players we can get. Effective veteran UFA's don't line up to come here. They line up not to come here.

 

Eric is on a 50 point pace, which averaged in w/ recent years suggests he is probably a 55-60 point guy. I bump him up slightly also because he has been playing with a mix of non scoring wingers. As Linholm, and Skinner and even Versteeg get back to their games, which they seem to be doing, it is good for around 10 more points for E. over a season.

 

Eric also leads the team at Plus 3. This team is majorly minus.

 

If we drafted an elite forward who had speed and creativity, Eric could play with that guy and not look out of place. Eventually that would boost Eric's numbers too.

 

IF Eric would take a big pay cut and even step back from the Captain and Face of the Franchise, he might even play better.

 

One metric that really correlates with winning is team wide production/dollar spent. If Eric takes a deal for say $5.5. million/year and puts up 60 points, and is a plus player? That's pretty close to right on. Think about overpaying a lesser UFA more to produce less (if we could talk one into coming here) to replace Eric. Not better.

 

I posted a list of obstacles to Eric taking that deal and would not predict he does, but the team would be better w/ Eric back on a more value oriented deal than not. It would leave one less hole to fill through drafting and other trades too.

Edited by remkin

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I haven't posted in awhile but I am an avid reader. I am in the minority in that I don't want E Staal to go if he can be signed for a reasonable price without NTC. Would not be opposed to a "rental Trade" bringing assets for next year. Yes he is over paid but like a car his talents have depreciated. His contract pay was based on the now not the future. Unfortunately the future has been less than stellar. I still say he has seldom had the talented pieces around him and yes maybe he should never have been made captain. Staal is a good player but he is not a number 1 center. Money aside maybe we would be better with a true number 1 center and E Staal as a number 2. Yes a lot to pay J Staal as a 3rd line center but the contract was JRs doing and too much $$ and too long a term. Now where the number 1 center would come from?

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Just to muddy the waters further. The Bob McKenzie, "they have talked and will talk more after Christmas" non story did include this bit of speculation:

 

Thought is that if Eric moves on, will they look to trade Jordan as well. Both could be on trade block by the trade deadline.

 

 

And they may both agree to move on. But w/ Jordan's contract to production ratio, I wonder what he would bring back. I know, big body, shuts down the top line centers....

 

But really, while we would be in dire need of a top line center, the clear path to a totally new pasture is both Staals and Ward gone. Talk about clearing the deck.

 

If we offloaded all that salary, could we not make a move on one guy, say a Johansen, or someone. Want to get crazy? A Stamkos? Want to dial it back some, a RNH?

 

For the sake of arguement, let's say, we got two more first rounders and at least one top 6 winger for both Staals and got all that salary off the books. Then, moved Ward for a bag of pucks and got all that salary off the books. (or maybe sign him to a modest deal and at leat get $4million of his salary off the books). Then say we went all out to land the guy for first line center:

 

Rask is a solid second line center. Nash? Well, we'd have to upgrade that eventually. Plus, don't foget at one point Lindholm was supposed to be a center too. Maybe: Johansen/Lindholm/Rask down the middle. At wing we'd have Skinner at this point, the guy we get for Staal, and maybe re-sign Versteeg? I know he's probably gone, but this is just speculation. Still would have a ton of cap room to at least throw some money at a UFA winger or third line center.

 

Next year I'm betting McGinn is at least ready for 3rd line duty. We have Nesty.

 

But we'd have 4 first round picks, one at least in the top 10 probably. Pick at least 3 forwards. Use our early second for another goalie prospect. Go from there.

 

If GMRF really wants to gut it, scrap it and rebuild it, that would be the way. Also would rid the team of all NTC's, at least until Skinner's kicks in, JR.

Edited by remkin

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If you are committed to a true rebuild, dump the two, take the hit for 2 to 3 years , and move on. It won't take that long to get to the playoffs but it will to be a consistent playoff team. Just start the process. 

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If you are committed to a true rebuild, dump the two, take the hit for 2 to 3 years , and move on. It won't take that long to get to the playoffs but it will to be a consistent playoff team. Just start the process. 

 

 

agreed.  it is better than forever floating in the sea of mediocrity

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Friedman on Eric Staal.

“I don’t think they’ve gone to Eric Staal yet and said ‘Where are you willing to go?’ And because he has a no movement clause, and the other thing about Eric Staal is, he still carries a cap number of $8.25-million and he’s getting paid I think $9.25-million, so those are not easy numbers to handle this early in the season.

“I think at the end of the day he’s going to get traded. That’s my prediction … and I think that’s the best thing for Eric Staal, is to get traded and maybe give himself a bit of a boost. Nick Kypreos would love to see Montreal get in on that, I could see Nashville getting in on that. I think there will be interest, but I just don’t think it’s ready to happen yet.”

Edited by remkin

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Can we get two 50 point forwards fro what we pay Eric?

 

 

For a 31-year-old at the end of a ridiculous contract who's on pace for 49 points right now?  Man, you get an offer like that, you not only jump but you ask 'how high?'.

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Can we get two 50 point forwards fro what we pay Eric?

Yes, theoretically. As an example, Tyler Bozak and Wayne Simmonds scored 50 and 49 points last year, respectively. Their salaries (cap hits)? $3.8 mil and $4.2 mil.

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You also need to remember their deals are a couple of years old and the cap keeps going up. If they were to become UFA's today they would get more money in at least the Simmonds situation, Bozak and his -34 last year...you've honestly got me what he would go for.

 

I can't fathom any team giving up 2 40-50 point scorers for Eric's rental services so while maybe in some hypothetical examples you could get 2 for Eric's 9 mil. I don't see how you would acquire those two in any other way then UFA and as more then a few point out....who the heck wants to come to this?

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Man E. Staal is struggling bad. 5g in 31 games. that's not struggling, that's just needs a change of scenery bad or has completely lost NHL abilities. Jordan Staal pretty much invisible too. I think the ideal thing we need to do is start the rebuild by getting rid of those two. But who wants 10 goals for 15mil? Gonna be hard or impossible. I was really rooting for those guys and I know they are better than this. I don't understand what happened. I wonder if they are completely checked out in the locker room and everyone knows it, do they actually even care about the Hurricanes anymore?

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Crosby only got 6g and 13a compared to E. Staals 5g and 13a. I guess that doesn't make me feel any better like I thought it might. Man, hockey is the toughest sport to bring it ever year.

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Both Staals have been solid if unspectacular to me this season.  I can't think of too many instances where either of them have been the best player on the ice, nor can i think of any where they were the worst (the fact either Ward or Lack are out there pretty much every second makes that second distinction kind of tough for anyone else).  The problem is, as we all know (and yes, BD, we also all know that those contracts are JR's fault and not theirs), they're being paid to be the best.  There's a bit of a problem when you can watch a game, all the while gushing over Rask, Skinner, Lindholm, DiGiuseppe, Malone (for different reasons), Pesce, Hanifin, and Slavin - only to have one of the Staals finally do something noteworthy enough that you think "oh yeah, i forgot about him".  I won't deny they're pieces of the puzzle, and solid (if unspectacular) pieces - but neither is playing up to his contract, neither is playing to the level he has in the past, and neither is the future of this franchise.

 

I started to go further, but all of it had been said before so i erased it and i'll leave it at that.  Probably could have erased the rest, sure, but hi.

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Said before.  In other roles and pay scales both Staals are welcome on virtually any NHL team.  They are NHL caliber but just not elite.

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http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2015/07/22/top-2016-nhl-free-agents-part-i-ranking-6-to-10/

 

Article ranking the top 10 UFA forwards. Eric is rated #8. Most notable on his stats listed, aside from still decent production, is how absolutley awful he is at limiting shots against and goals against while on the ice. This would certainly explain his historically terrible plus/minus:

 

In terms of managing chances against, Staal’s work leaves a lot to be desired. Whether he stays in Carolina or moves elsewhere, a dependable winger (think, Justin Williams or Brad Marchand types) would do wonders to help reduce shot attempts and goals against while Staal is on the ice.

 

 

Then the writer postulates this:

 

In the end, Eric Staal would likely command $8.5 million or more on the open market and may be asked to take less money to remain with the Hurricanes. Whether or not Staal wishes to finish his career with his brother Jordan in Carolina remains to be seen.

 

 

I am no GM, but when you put thost two paragraphs together with his declining production? Wow. Pass. This just isn't going to work.

 

 

I cannot see paying E. Staal more than $6 million and that is top of the mark. If he is really worth $8.5 million on the open market? Be my guest. I really can't believe it though.

 

 

 

BTW that same site has at least 4 in the know types saying that Columbus really wants to trade Johansen. Maybe it takes less than I thought to get him.

Edited by remkin

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