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2015/16 In-Season Talk

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Despite the fact that Lindy has thusfar been a bit of a miss (it's not over yet), teams generally get their studs in the draft. A team like Carolina pretty much HAS to draft them. I do see Francis pulling a Versteeg-type move, where he picks up a 50 point guy off of a cash strapped team as more likely. The Olilers and Drouin (though less so lately since Tampa seems to be kissing and making up a bit), might be exceptions.

 

But bottom line, no way do I trade our first first rounder. The King's first rounder maybe. But this is a deep draft, and there is serious talent in the top 10. As I've mentioned I trade up and try to get that elite guy. Yes, there might be a deal worth doing, but usually teams hold onto their studs, and even if not, like Johannsen, it takes way more than a mid-round draft pick to get them.

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Yeah, lumping Lindy in with Murphy is ridiculous. He was asked to do a whole lot more, both minutes-wise and positionally, than a player at his stage of development should have been, not just this year but in past years as well. He needs the summer off as does Rask, with no worlds - and if I'm RF, I'm also refusing to send any player to the Gary Bettman's Ice Follies - er, the World Cup of Hokey - er, Hockey. Thank you, no. Fine me if you must.

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Despite the fact that Lindy has thusfar been a bit of a miss (it's not over yet), teams generally get their studs in the draft. A team like Carolina pretty much HAS to draft them. I do see Francis pulling a Versteeg-type move, where he picks up a 50 point guy off of a cash strapped team as more likely. The Olilers and Drouin (though less so lately since Tampa seems to be kissing and making up a bit), might be exceptions.

 

But bottom line, no way do I trade our first first rounder. The King's first rounder maybe. But this is a deep draft, and there is serious talent in the top 10. As I've mentioned I trade up and try to get that elite guy. Yes, there might be a deal worth doing, but usually teams hold onto their studs, and even if not, like Johannsen, it takes way more than a mid-round draft pick to get them.

 

Rem: do you mean "cap strapped" team?

 

Aren't the Canes "cash strapped" while the Hawks are "cap strapped?"

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Seems like there are 3 ways to pick up a proven top 6 forward in the offseason. 

  • Trade with a Cap Strapped team. Options here seem really limited, but you never know, and a cap strapped team seems more likely to consider taking back draft picks in return since they're dumping salary. But if the guy they're forced to dump is good enough, seems like a smart GM is going to want a more developed prospect or young player still on a cap friendly ELC rather than settling for draft picks.
  • UFA.    
  • Trade some of our defensive prodigies to a team that's overbalanced on the offensive side.

 

Two other options that might get you a legitimate top 6 forward but that would require a bit of luck:

  • Win the draft lottery. 
  • An unproven prospect makes a giant leap (Aho).

RF will have a lot of picks and cash available, but he's still got a very tall order ahead of him, imo.

Edited by LakeLivin

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Hard to spitball who to get in FA, who knows who will be retained and then theres the guy's I think we have no shot in hell of getting (Stamkos)

 

Really wouldn't mind having Lucic, that guy could turn around the push me around attitude real quick in the locker room. On this team he's a top 6 player, though he's prolly #6. 

 

Not sure outside of 50 point getters who we can realistically get to help the top 6 in Free Agency. 

 

I keep saying 50 point getters as if their dime a dozen, certainly not the case in Carolina.

Edited by legend-1

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Hard to spitball who to get in FA, who knows who will be retained and then theres the guy's I think we have no shot in hell of getting (Stamkos)

 

Really wouldn't mind having Lucic, that guy could turn around the push me around attitude real quick in the locker room. On this team he's a top 6 player, though he's prolly #6. 

 

Not sure outside of 50 point getters who we can realistically get to help the top 6 in Free Agency. 

 

I keep saying 50 point getters as if their dime a dozen, certainly not the case in Carolina.

 

Lucic would be great for the Canes, but that seems about as likely as Stamkos.  Here's what he said:  "My plan is to remain a King and hopefully finish off my career here."

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Lucic would be great for the Canes, but that seems about as likely as Stamkos.  Here's what he said:  "My plan is to remain a King and hopefully finish off my career here."

 

.....dangit.... cept the bad word version of it

Edited by legend-1

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Rem: do you mean "cap strapped" team?

 

Aren't the Canes "cash strapped" while the Hawks are "cap strapped?"

 

Did mean cap. Francis himself said in an interview that this was something he wanted to do. IMO you're generally going to get a guy like Versteeg. Very good, but complementary if it is only a cap pick up (ie very little given back).  However, it could be a much better player if it is a pick or prospect for a very good player with a big contract. But even here, teams are not giving up their 1C or core players.

 

This is why I favor moving up the draft board and grabbing an elite, big forward.

 

A "hockey" trade, where a solid defenseman or prospect, and here I'm thinking Faulk (don't kill me, this would be for a big name forward) or Fleury, say Fleury for RNH or Drouin type move could work.

 

I would love Lucic here, but I agree that is a snowball's chance in Raleigh July.

Edited by remkin

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For whatever reason, I see our main forward acquisitions being a couple of cap casualty trades in the Vesteeg mold. Ron Francis seems to be taking the long term approach to team building. The Canes can absorb a couple of contracts on good players that may be too much for their current teams. He traded for Versteeg and got Nordstrom as a throw in.

He got both of JStaals wingers for nothing. Those moves can not be underestimated.

Edited by super_dave_1

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Did mean cap. Francis himself said in an interview that this was something he wanted to do. IMO you're generally going to get a guy like Versteeg. Very good, but complementary if it is only a cap pick up (ie very little given back).  However, it could be a much better player if it is a pick or prospect for a very good player with a big contract. But even here, teams are not giving up their 1C or core players.

 

This is why I favor moving up the draft board and grabbing an elite, big forward.

 

A "hockey" trade, where a solid defenseman or prospect, and here I'm thinking Faulk (don't kill me, this would be for a big name forward) or Fleury, say Fleury for RNH or Drouin type move could work.

 

I would love Lucic here, but I agree that is a snowball's chance in Raleigh July.

 

I know we're in the vast minority, but I could see where trading Faulk might be the best move for the Canes at this point.  It would have to be for a young, franchise type forward still on a decent contract to make any sense imo.  But I don't know how RF would pull that off politically because isn't Faulk essentially the face of the Canes at this point?  Although, I guess it's not nearly as unthinkable at this point as compared to about halfway through the season.  He was on fire for the first half of the season but then had about a quarter season of almost zero offensive production, followed by his injury (I don't think it's fair to count his post-injury play against him). Defensively, well, that probably deserves it's own thread as I"m sure it would bring up fairly strong feelings on both sides of the issue.

 

I could be wrong, but I see Fleury as having more potential at this point than the value he'd have on the trade market.  Sure, he's a high draft pick.  But he had a disappointing season last year, bounced back this year, but didn't exactly shine at the world juniors. If I was a GM I'd want Slavin before Fleury right now.  Of course, if I were RF, Slavin wouldn't be up for discussion unless someone made us an offer we couldn't refuse (valuing Slavin as if he were a top 5 overall pick).  

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For whatever reason, I see our main forward acquisitions being a couple of cap casualty trades in the Vesteeg mold. Ron Francis seems to be taking the long term approach to team building. The Canes can absorb a couple of contracts on good players that may be too much for their current teams. He traded for Versteeg and got Nordstrom as a throw in.

He got both of JStaals wingers for nothing. Those moves can not be underestimated.

 

You're probably right.

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Just for reference, the last time I checked the Canes would need to spend a minimum of 11-mil to reach the cap floor.  I can't believe I actually posted that.  Seems very strange territory.

 

Choose wisely RF.

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Just for reference, the last time I checked the Canes would need to spend a minimum of 11-mil to reach the cap floor.  I can't believe I actually posted that.  Seems very strange territory.

 

Choose wisely RF.

 

That's a very interesting perspective. I just took a quick look at my new favorite salary site http://www.generalfanager.com/teams

 

Existing cap floor is $52.8m and it will probably go up a bit next season.  I believe we've got 13 "set" NHL contracts for next season totaling $38.3m.  That's $14.5m under the current floor.  Need to add in new contracts for Rask, Nordstrom, and a goalie (Ward or otherwise). That will still leave us with 7 positions to fill, maybe some from within. 

 

I counted DiGiuseppi among the 13 but not Nash, Gerbe, Malone, Terry, or Murphy.  I'm sure we'll re-sign some subset of those.

 

Like I said, a very quick look before tip off, so I could be off somewhere.

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For whatever reason, I see our main forward acquisitions being a couple of cap casualty trades in the Vesteeg mold. Ron Francis seems to be taking the long term approach to team building. The Canes can absorb a couple of contracts on good players that may be too much for their current teams. He traded for Versteeg and got Nordstrom as a throw in.

He got both of JStaals wingers for nothing. Those moves can not be underestimated.

This.

 

Versteeg was okay, but was (frankly) a disappointment in my book. He got better for maybe 15 games after being benched, but then it was back to just okay-ness. Here comes the part where everybody who is so convinced I'm an Eric hater will go off, but part of that comes down to the energy of the players around you. It was obvious to anyone really watching that J's line worked because they fed off each other's skills to create chances. Meanwhile Lindy was saddled with two vets who were more about capitalizing on opportunities that presented themselves than they were about creating them.

 

That's the difference in this game: Anticipating the play. When you're responding to it instead - and you're not particularly fast, to boot - you will always be on your heels. 

 

This is why I want a healthy Rask to be given a chance at becoming a first-line center. He anticipates, he's fast, has great hands, and is big enough to hold ground in the slot. He also reacts to goals like they are expected, not a gift or a surprise. The guy is the epitome of calm, cool and collected. Put Skinner on one wing and pick up a youngish guy who PROJECTS to 40 or 50 points - but who hasn't gotten those numbers yet - let BP's system do the rest, and there's your top line. Without breaking the bank.

 

Let J, Nordy and Nesty do what they've already shown they can do as the second. That whole line is slotted perfectly. Why mess with success?

 

If the plan remains that Lindy becomes a C, give him the third, between two solid forecheckers who can score. PDG for sure, and here's where you get and slot that second guy who projects to 40 or 50. Maybe it's Aho, but I'd rather a guy who has skated in the NHL for at least a couple of years who we pick up at a fair price, so we're not rushing Aho's development. Let this pick-up and the other compete for first-line duties in camp.

 

I think McClement is dealt and either Nash or Ryan get the fourth. I think Nash is the better call. Ryan is clearly a leader in CLT who can show guys what it means to be a pro. Let him do that. Put Aho on one fourth-line wing and Brown on the other, and suddenly you've got a fourth that's tough and has size, plus an explosive kid who can score the puck.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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In other news the Canes ink Clark Bishop to a three-year deal:

 

http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=877032&navid=DL|CAR|home

 

Interesting we signed a guy from the QMJHL.  Sarcasm.

Good thing you labeled it, b/c at the rate we've been going after Euro talent, I (at least) might have taken it seriously!

 

Edit: The link also explains why RF was in Chicoutimi last week, negating the claims of the "Canes moving to QC!" troll who showed up here. Thanks coastal.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I know we're in the vast minority, but I could see where trading Faulk might be the best move for the Canes at this point.  It would have to be for a young, franchise type forward still on a decent contract to make any sense imo.  But I don't know how RF would pull that off politically because isn't Faulk essentially the face of the Canes at this point?  Although, I guess it's not nearly as unthinkable at this point as compared to about halfway through the season.  He was on fire for the first half of the season but then had about a quarter season of almost zero offensive production, followed by his injury (I don't think it's fair to count his post-injury play against him). Defensively, well, that probably deserves it's own thread as I"m sure it would bring up fairly strong feelings on both sides of the issue.

 

See, the Hurricanes have a bad game and everyone wants to trade Faulk...

 

Kidding.

 

I stand by my earlier statements that if going the trade route to bring in a can't-miss forward, Faulk is hands-down the best trade commodity this team has.  And with the obvious breakouts of 3 rookie defensemen plus a handful of others (Fleury, McKeown, and Carrick in particular) from which we expect similar effectiveness, i don't think we'd miss Faulk anywhere except on the power play - i don't even see too many Faulk lovers touting his defensive prowess, plus you'd hope a can't-miss forward would be able to pitch in a few PPGs as well.  True, it's a gamble - the next phase of defensemen may not pan out to the extent we hope they will - but then isn't every trade a bit of a gamble (Andrew Ladd, anyone?)?

 

I'm not saying i'd throw him out on the hook and let him go to the first taker who offers up a bag of chips, but i'd wager there's a team or two who would give up a key cog to get a defenseman like Faulk.

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See, the Hurricanes have a bad game and everyone wants to trade Faulk...

 

Kidding.

 

I stand by my earlier statements that if going the trade route to bring in a can't-miss forward, Faulk is hands-down the best trade commodity this team has.  And with the obvious breakouts of 3 rookie defensemen plus a handful of others (Fleury, McKeown, and Carrick in particular) from which we expect similar effectiveness, i don't think we'd miss Faulk anywhere except on the power play - i don't even see too many Faulk lovers touting his defensive prowess, plus you'd hope a can't-miss forward would be able to pitch in a few PPGs as well.  True, it's a gamble - the next phase of defensemen may not pan out to the extent we hope they will - but then isn't every trade a bit of a gamble (Andrew Ladd, anyone?)?

 

I'm not saying i'd throw him out on the hook and let him go to the first taker who offers up a bag of chips, but i'd wager there's a team or two who would give up a key cog to get a defenseman like Faulk.

Yeah, it is hard to make a case that Faulk was missed during his injury, and while we'd have surely missed his early-season goals, he is nowhere near the D we need in terms of staying home, particularly if we opt not to upgrade in goal.

 

The return would have to be big, but if we can get another year from Hainsey and pick up another vet in FA (Liles?) we've got the young horses and the prospects we need to be fine on the back end without him. 

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Two things about Faulk jumped out at me last game, things I'd been previously aware of but that had kind of slipped to the back of my mind with him being out for as long as he was.

  1. He seems to make more bad decisions at the blue line when opponents are entering our zone than you'd expect from someone with 5 years NHL experience.  I'm not saying it happens often, just more often than I'd like or expect.
  2. He's got an absolute cannon of a shot.  Supposedly Wiz also has a howitzer, but other than that I don't think we've got anyone else that comes close to Faulk's power. 

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Two things about Faulk jumped out at me last game, things I'd been previously aware of but that had kind of slipped to the back of my mind with him being out for as long as he was.

  1. He seems to make more bad decisions at the blue line when opponents are entering our zone than you'd expect from someone with 5 years NHL experience.  I'm not saying it happens often, just more often than I'd like or expect.
  2. He's got an absolute cannon of a shot.  Supposedly Wiz also has a howitzer, but other than that I don't think we've got anyone else that comes close to Faulk's power. 

 

 

True, but he didn't start out that way. It was something he has worked on with a shooting coach...even changed his stick stiffness to improve in that area. I think the other young guys could improve this aspect of their games.

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In other news the Canes ink Clark Bishop to a three-year deal:

 

http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=877032&navid=DL|CAR|home

 

Interesting we signed a guy from the QMJHL.  Sarcasm.

 

An in depth article about Bishop. It's almost 2 years old, but Bishop's numbers in the Q have been fairly consistent since then so I suspect some of the scouting report might still hold.  A blurb from the article:

 

"Bishop is all heart and work ethic. Not blessed with the natural talents of others in his draft class, Bishop uses his physicality, grit, work rate, smarts and tremendous skating ability to make things happen on both sides of the puck. (November 2013)"

 

Seems like another "raffle ticket" for the Canes.  Each one is unlikely to hit, but if you get enough of them your chances of winning start to look pretty decent.

 

http://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2014/6/16/5808542/clark-bishop-2014-nhl-draft-prospect-profile

Edited by LakeLivin

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"Bishop is all heart and work ethic. Not blessed with the natural talents of others in his draft class, Bishop uses his physicality, grit, work rate, smarts and tremendous skating ability to make things happen on both sides of the puck. (November 2013)"

Sounds like a BP/RF kinda guy. Giddy up.

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True, but he didn't start out that way. It was something he has worked on with a shooting coach...even changed his stick stiffness to improve in that area. I think the other young guys could improve this aspect of their games.

Have to think this is a focus for Hanifin. He's got the build to get there, just has to get the mechanics right.

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The thing about Faulk is that one would have to think his value is very high. Is it peaking or will he become a true Franchise type dman? And by that I mean a guy who can take over a game in all three zones.

 

His insane run of PP goals indicate a heavy shot, but was almost certainly unsustainable at that level, and he has not been a huge assist guy.

 

He is our All Star, he is still young, He could have tremdous trade value.

 

Why even entertain this? You would have to believe that Hanfiin will be a Franchise type dman, and that with Slavin and Pesce pretty proven, and Fleury et all in the wings, we could still get it done. And it would need to be a killer return. Say the Oilers would give us Draistl and their first round pick, or something like that.

 

At the end of the day, the risk in my mind is the next two years. I have very high hopes for Hanifin, but 19 year old Franchise Dman next year? No. So it would have to be a defense by committee, and probably not a cup run in the next year or two as Hanfin at all get to that level. So, I don't see it actually happening.

 

But, I think we all see that we are tilted to defense both on the ice and our prospects, and trying to figure out how to move some of that Defensive prowess to balance with forwards is a reasonable theme to look at.

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